House of Lords Journal Volume 8: 13 May 1646

DIE Mercurii, 13 die Maii.

PRAYERS, by Mr. Taylor.

Comes Manchester, Speaker.

Levett to be Instituted to Ashwell;

Ordered, That Sir Nath. Brent shall give Institution and Induction to Richard Levett, to the Rectory of Ashwell, in the County of Rutland; having received a Presentation by the Great Seal of England.

and Poole to Weston upon Trent.

Ordered, That Sir Nath. Brent shall give Institution and Induction to Edward Poole Minister, to the Rectory of Weston upon Trent, in the County of Derby; being presented thereunto by Tho. Stych, of Newberry, in the Parish of Barking, in the County of Essex, Esquire.

Ld. Mohun bailed.

"The Condition of the abovesaid Recognizance is, That Warwicke Lord Mohun shall not go further than Twenty Miles from the Line of Communication; and shall appear before this House within Two Days (fn. 1) after Summons left at his House or Lodging, or Notice given to (fn. 2) himself."

Ordinance for Mr. Spinkes to be Minister of Castor.

An Ordinance was brought in this Day, for making Mr. Spinkes Minister of Castor, in the County of North'ton; and being read, was approved of, and Ordered to be sent to the House of Commons for Concurrence.

Message from the H. C. for a Conference about disposing of the King's Person.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir John Danvers Knight:

To desire a Conference, so soon as it may stand with their Lordships Convenience, concerning the Matter of the late Conference, touching the disposing of the Person of the King as both Houses shall think fit.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House hath appointed to give a present Conference, in the Painted Chamber, as is desired.

Ld. Chancellor of Scotland going to return thither.

The Earl of Manchester reported, "That the Lord Chancellor of Scotland hath signified to the Committee of both Kingdoms, that he had received Command from the Commissioners of the Estates of Scotland to make his speedy Repair to them; and before he goes, he desires the Houses (fn. 3) may know of his going, that so, if he might receive any Thing as might tend to the Good of both Kingdoms, he will faithfully improve with all the Care he can."

Thanks of the House to be sent to him.

Ordered, That the Speaker shall let the Lord Chancellor know, from this House, "That their Lordships do set a high Value upon his Merits and good Services which he hath shewed to this Kingdom; and to give him Thanks for his Expressions reported this Day; and that this House doth wish him a good Journey."

Palmer's Petition.

Upon reading the Petition of Wm. Palmer: It is Ordered, That Mr. Justice Reeve and Mr. Justice Pheasant shall certify to this House the true State of the Business, that so this House may give further Direction therein.

The House of Commons being come in the Painted Chamber, the House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

The Speaker reported the Effect of the Conference:

Report of the Conference on the Vote about disposing of the King's Person.

"That Mr. Lisle, at the Conference, said,

"That the House of Commons had taken the Vote wherein formerly they desired our Concurrence, and the Answer of the Lords, into their serious Consideration; and, upon Debate, had resolved to adhere to their Vote as formerly delivered to us.

"In the First Place they observe, That the Answer of the Lords is a bare Negative, and no Reasons offered to induce them to alter their Opinion.

"Such a Negative Answer, they hold not to be usual in the Proceedings of Parliament; and they conceive it very inconvenient: For if One House may give a Negative Answer without any Reasons offered, the other House may adhere without giving Reasons for the same; and so the Houses will have no clear Understanding of the Grounds of each other's Resolutions.

"The Reasons why the House of Commons adhere to their Vote are,

"Because they conceive it an undoubted Right, That the King cannot be disposed of in England, but by the Parliament of England.

"This Right hath been now claimed; and if the Claim should be deserted, both Houses would be thought to quit their Interest in the King.

"It is not only a Right, but it would not be honourable for the Parliament if He should not be demanded; for it would be very unsafe for the King to be in an Army in England, where His Personal Presence may have an ill Influence upon them.

"The Scotts Army are paid by the Parliament of England; and therefore whatsoever comes in their Power, that of Right belongs to this Kingdom, ought to be delivered by them to the Parliament.

"Your Lordships are concerned by a higher Interest to make this Demand, which is, by the Solemn League and Covenant; this being so great and undoubted Right belonging to the Parliament of England.

"And upon these Reasons they adhere to their former Vote; and desire their Lordships Concurrence herein.

"Next, Sir John Evelyn said,

"Your Lordships have heard the Sense of the House of Commons, how much they conceive themselves concerned in Honour to have this Vote to be passed: Therefore they hope your Lordships will never depart from bearing your Part in such a Demand. They will be very unwilling to be necessitated to do this without your Lordships. Yet, if your Lordships shall not think fit to agree with them, they shall never fail to do their Part in making this Demand; it being a Thing wherein the Parliament and Kingdom is so much interessed."

The Report being made; the House took into Consideration whether these Words now reported were the Words as were spoken by Sir John Evelyn at this Conference.

The Words being read;

Question concerning Words spoke by Sir J. Evelyn at this Conference.

This Question was put, "Whether that these Words, or Words to such Effect, were spoken at the Conference by Sir John Evelyn?"

And it was generally Agreed to.

Next this Question was put, "Whether, by these Words, it doth not appear to this House, that the Sense of these Words are, That in case their Lordships do not agree with the House of Commons, that they will do it without them?"

And it was Resolved in the Affirmative.

Ordered, That this Report shall be taken further into Consideration To-morrow Morning.