House of Lords Journal Volume 9: 22 April 1647

Pages 147-149

Journal of the House of Lords: Volume 9, 1646. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1767-1830.

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DIE Jovis, 22 die Aprilis.


Domini præsentes fuerunt:

Comes Manchester, Speaker.

Comes Kent.
Comes Pembrooke.
Comes Mulgrave.
Comes Sarum.
L. Viscount Hereford.
Comes Nottingham.
Comes Lyncolne.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
Comes Suffolke.
Ds. Grey.
Ds. Howard.
Ds. Bruce.
Ds. Hunsdon.
Ds. Maynard.
Ds. Willoughby.

Sir J. Wood, a Pass to come Home.

Ordered, That Sir John Wood shall have a Pass, to come into England, out of France.

Remedies for removing Obstructions in Church Government.

The Remedies for removing some Obstructions in Church Government, brought Yesterday from the House of Commons, were read the First Time; and the House was adjourned into a Committee during Pleasure, to take them into Consideration.

The House was resumed.

And the House thought fit to make some Alterations therein, which were read: And then the several Remedies were read, with the Amendments particularly; and Agreed to upon the Question, and Ordered to be sent to the House of Commons for their Concurrence therein.

Tryers of the Classis in London.

The Names of some Ministers to be added, as Tryers in some Classis in London, were read, and Agreed to. (Here enter them.)

Propositions from the City, for lending 200,000l. for Ireland.

Next, the House was adjourned into a Committee during Pleasure, to take into Consideration the Demands of the City of London, for the Security of the Two Hundred Thousand Pounds, and the Votes of the House of Commons thereupon.

(Here enter the Demands.)

The House being resumed;

The First Vote was read, with an Alteration, and Agreed to with the said Alteration.

The Second Vote was read; and, after Debate, Two Questions were propounded:

"1. Whether this Vote shall be put as it came from the House of Commons?

2. Whether this Amendment shall be made in this Vote, ["relating only to the Monies; Horse, and Plate, lent upon the Propositions on the Public Faith"]?"

Then this Question was put, "Whether the First Question shall be first put?"

It (fn. 1) was Resolved in the Negative.

Then the Second Question was put.

And it was Resolved in the Affirmative.

The Third Vote, which came from the House of Commons, was read, and Agreed to.

The Fourth Vote, which came from the House of Commons, was read, and Agreed to.

The Fifth Vote, which came from the House of Commons, was read, and debated.

The Question being put, "Whether to agree to this Vote as it is now brought up from the House of Commons?"

It was Resolved in the Negative.

Ordered, To take into Debate To-morrow Morning the further Consideration of this Business.

Votes for flighting Garrisons, &c.

Ordered, That the Business concerning the Garrisons shall be taken into Consideration To-morrow Morning.

Tryers of the Classis in London.

"The Names of some Ministers to be added as Tryers, in some of the Classes in the Province of London, to supply the Defect of those that were appointed by Ordinance, and are since gone into the Country, or removed to some other Classis:

"Second Classis. Mr. Haviland, of Trinity Parish.
Mr. John Barker of James Garlickehith.
"3 Classis. Mr. Robinson, of Mary Wolnoth.
"5 Classis. Mr. Christopher Love, of Hune Aldersgate.
"7 Classis. Mr. Symeon Ash, of Michaell Bashingshawe.
Mr. Thomas Cawton, of Bartholomew Exchange.
"8 Classis. Mr. Nanton, of Mary Newington.
"9 Classis. Mr. John Wallis, of Gabriell Fenchurch.
"10 Classis. Mr. John Rawlinson, of Lambeth.
"12 Classis. Mr. Thomas Gouge, of Sepulchers.
Mr. William Strong, of Dunstan's in the West."

Propositions from the City, for lending 200,000l. for the Service of Ireland.

"Commune Consilium tent. in Camera Guild. Civitatis London, 17 Die April. 1647.

"This Court having received a Proposition from both Houses of Parliament, by several Members thereof, for the borrowing of Two Hundred Thousand Pounds, for the Service of England and Ireland, upon the Security of the Remainder of the Bishops Lands, as it was formerly given, with the collateral Security of the Excise in Course, Papists and Delinquents Estates in Arms excepted from Pardon, and any other Security as is in the Power of the Parliament, and not already engaged, except the Ordinance now in passing for the raising of the Monthly Sum of Sixty Thousand Pounds for the Service of the Forces of England and Ireland, do humbly return this Answer:

"1. That, in their Opinion, the best Way and readiest Means for the speedy advancing of this Two Hundred Thousand Pounds, propounded to be borrowed by the Parliament, is, to secure to the Lenders a like Sum more, as was lately done unto those who advanced the Two Hundred Thousand Pounds for our Brethren of Scotland.

"2. More particularly, that they conceive it would be an Encouragement to the Lenders, and a Furtherance to the Service, to secure unto those who shall now lend any Monies upon this Proposition, the Loans and Disbursements following:

"1. The Monies paid upon the Ordinance for raising Fifty Subsidies, which Monies were employed for the Public Service, and all other Sums lent upon the latter Expedition into Kent, upon the Second Commotion there, for which the City Seal stands yet engaged, together with the Interest arising upon both Loans since the advancing thereof.

"2. All Monies, Plate, or Horses, with their Furniture and Arms, advanced upon the Public Faith or Propositions, and all Monies advanced towards the Loan of Thirty Thousand Pounds in or about November, 1642, and of Forty Thousand Pounds in or about April, 1643, and of Twenty-three Thousand Pounds in and about May, 1643, not already re-paid, together also with Interest due thereupon.

"3. All Monies lent towards the Raising of the Fifty Thousand Pounds, borrowed for the Service of Ireland, in or about November, 1641, with the Interest likewise due upon the same.

"4. All Monies lent in the Year 1641 (which are yet unpaid), upon the Security of the Act of Parliament for the speedy raising of Monies, for disbanding the Armies, and settling the Peace of the Two Kingdoms of England and Scotland, with the Interest arising thereupon.

"As for Example;

"If there be owing to any Person, for any of the Services aforesaid, One Hundred Pounds Principal, which, with Interest for Four Years past, will make One Hundred Thirty-two Pounds, he, adventuring One Hundred Thirty-two Pounds more, may be secured for the whole Two Hundred Sixty-four Pounds; and so proportionably for a greater or lesser Sum; and according to the Interest due thereupon.

"3. Because many poor and decayed Citizens, and other Persons, cannot double the Monies they are and have been so many Years out of Purse, upon the Propositions and the Public Faith; they conceive it very equal, that now some Course should be taken for their Satisfaction; and humbly propound, That, if the Parliament would please to add Thirty Thousand Pounds more to the present Proposition of Two Hundred Thousand Pounds, to be presently raised, and secured in like Manner as the said Two Hundred Thousand Pounds, it would redound to the Honour of the Parliament, be a very charitable Work, and conduce very much to the Furtherance of the whole Service; the same Thirty Thousand Pounds to be also presently raised, and (by a Committee appointed by this Court) to be divided amongst such poor and decayed Citizens, and other Persons, as they shall find most to stand in Need thereof, not exceeding Ten Pounds Principal to any One Person, besides the Interest due upon the same.

"4. That, for the Security and Re-payment of this Two Hundred and Thirty Thousand Pounds presently to be raised, and as much more to be secured as aforesaid, and the future Interest after Eight Pounds per Cent. arising upon the Whole; they conceive, according as is propounded from both Houses, that the several Securities hereafter named, are the most fitting to be given, and will be the most probable Way to raise this Money:

"1. The Fines and Compositions of Delinquents already made, but not received, or hereafter to be made, at Gouldsmiths Hall, or otherwhere, in Course; and in the Interim, the Rents and Profits of the Lands and Estates of such Delinquents till their Composition be made.

"2. The Remainder of the Proceed (fn. 2) of the Bishops Lands, after they shall be clear of the present Engagements.

"3. The Receipts of the Grand Excise, in Course.

"4. The Lands and Estates of Papists in Arms, and Delinquents excepted from Pardon; their just Debts, made before the First of April, 1642, being first paid.

"5. That the Interest of this whole Sum of Four Hundred and Sixty Thousand Pounds, or so much as from Time to Time shall be due upon such Principal as shall rest unsatisfied out of the Securities last before named, be paid every Six Months, out of the Receipts of the Grand Excise, till Principal and Interest be fully discharged.

"6. That, during this Treaty upon the Proposition aforesaid, and until all Matters be fully agreed and perfected thereupon, neither the Receipts at Gouldsmiths Hall, nor of the Excise, be further anticipated, charged, or engaged.

"7. That it may be lawful for any Person to assign his Right and Interest in any Sum or Sums of Money owing unto him upon the several Particulars before recited, or any of them, to any Person or Persons that will advance the like Sum, in Manner as is before expressed.

"8. That, for the better Encouragement of the Lenders, Treasurers may be named by the Common Council, to receive and pay these Monies; and that the same be not issued out, but only for the disbanding of the Army, and for the Service of Ireland, and for the decayed Citizens and other poor Persons, as before expressed.

"9. That a Committee of Citizens and others, being Adventurers for Ireland, may be chosen amongst themselves; and that they may be consulted with by such Committees of Parliament as shall be appointed for providing Necessaries for Irel. to the End the Monies may be laid out to the best Advantage for the Service of that Kingdom.



  • 1. Origin. is was.
  • 2. Origin. to.