House of Lords Journal Volume 9: 9 June 1647

Pages 249-251

Journal of the House of Lords: Volume 9, 1646. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1767-1830.

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DIE Mercurii, 9 Junii.

Comes Manchester, Speaker.

Comes Northumberland.
Comes Rutland.
Comes Pembrooke.
Comes Lincolne.
Comes Denbigh.
Comes Mulgrave.
Comes Stanford.
Comes Suff.
L. Berkley.
L. Wharton.
L. North.
L. Hunsdon.
L. Grey.
L. Willoughby.

Preachers at the Humiliation thanked.

Mr. Herle, Mr. Palmer, Mr. Arrowsmith, and Mr. Vines, (after their Sermons) withdrew; and, being called in again, were told, "That this House did acknowledge the great Respects done unto it, for their Performance of this Day's Duty; and did give them very hearty Thanks for the same."

Answer from the H. C.

Doctor Heath and Mr. Page returned Answer from the House of Commons:

That they will send Answer, by Messengers of their own, concerning the Declaration for suppressing of Tumults.

Letters from Sir T. Fairfax and the Commissioners with the King.

A Letter from Sir Thomas Fairefax, was read.

(Here enter it.)

A Letter from the Commissioners with the King was read, and a Relation touching the King's Removal from Holdenby. (Here enter them.)

Letter from Sir T. Fairfax, that he had wrote a full Answer to the Speaker of the H. C. not having Time to send a Duplicate to this House.

"For the Right Honourable Edward Earl of Manchester, Speaker of the House of Peers pro Tempore.

"My Lord,

I received your Letter, subscribed by the Speakers of both Houses; and last Night late sent an Answer to Mr. Speaker of the House of Commons, desiring him to communicate the same to the House of Peers, in regard the Letter was long, and the Time would not then give Leave for the Writing another. I desire your Lordship's Excuse for it; and that it may not be attributed to any Neglect in

Cambridge, June 7, 1647.

"Your Lordship's humble Servant,

"T. Fairefax."

Letter from the Commissioners with the King, that He refused to go back to Holdenby; and was on His Way to Newmarket; with Sir T. Fairfax's Consent.

"For the Right Honourable the Earl of Manchester, Speaker of the House of Peers pro Tempore. These.

"My Lord,

"Upon Saturday, as we were upon the Way between Huntingdon and Cambridge, in our Journey as we supposed towards New Markett, we were met by Colonel Whalley, who acquainted us with the First Orders he had received from the General, to attend the King, with his Regiment, at Holdenby, in the room of Colonel Greaves; and also with such other Orders as he received from his Excellency after it was known unto him that His Majesty was upon His March towards Newmarkett, whereby he was directed, at his Meeting of the King upon the Way, to intreat His Majesty to take up His Quarters at the next convenient House, which he had assigned to be at Childersly, the late Dwelling-house of Sir John Cutts; wherewith His Majesty was contented. At the same Time we also received Two Letters from the General, wherein he acquainted us that the changing of the Guards at Holdenby, and the Removal of the King, had been without his Privity; and that he had sent Colonel Whalley, with his Regiment, to attend His Majesty back to Holdenby: But those Orders which Colonel Whalley last received, for waiting upon the King to such convenient Quarters as should be next to the Place where he met Him in the Way, were given, as it seems, after the Date of those Letters he directed to us, and upon his Knowledge of the King's being advanced as far as Huntington: Upon Saturday in the Afternoon, the King came accordingly to this Place; and we returned Answer to his Excellency's Two Letters, wherein we acquainted him with our Condition; and that we had sent to the Parliament for Directions, which we speedily expected. Upon Saturday, late in the Night, Sir Hardres Waller and Colonel Lambert came unto us from the General, and desired our Advice what was fittest to be done upon this Accident, which had befallen by the Disorder of the Soldiers, without his Excellency's Knowledge; and withal propounded unto us the King's Return to Holdenby, wherein His Majesty had declared His utter Averseness to Colonel Whally; insisting, that He would not be posted from Place to Place; but, since they had removed Him against His Will from Holdenby, He would now go to Newmarkett. To this we durst not, in the Condition we were, presume to give any Advice at all, before we received new Directions from you; and that was all the Answer we returned. Upon Monday, the General himself, the Lieutenant General, and other Chief Officers of the Army, came hither; and were much pressed by the King, that, for His Conveniency, He might remove to His own House at Newmarkett; professing that He would not return to Holdenby. Herein, though much desired, we could not take upon us to advise or act any Thing; conceiving that no new Guards could be put into the Capacity of the former, who by Ordinance of Parliament were immediately to receive and observe our Orders, and could not be countermanded by any other Authority than of both Houses. His Excellency, after much Discourse, returned back to his Quarters at Cambridge, having promised the King that He should have their Resolution before Morning; and accordingly Colonel Whalley hath now received Orders to attend the King to Newmarkett, whither we also wait upon Him; expecting Hourly to receive your Directions, which are hereby earnestly entreated, and will be extremely welcome unto

Childersley, the 8th of June, 1647.

"Your Lordship's humble Servant,

"Edw. Mountagu.

"In regard I was straitened in Time when my last Letter was written, I have here inclosed sent you a perfect Relation of what passed upon the 4th of this Instant June, when the King spake publicly with the Soldiers at Holdenby.

Narrative of the Manner of the King's being taken from Holdenby by a Party of the Army under Cornet Joyce.

"The Party being drawn up in the First Court before the House, His Majesty came down, and, standing upon the Top of the Steps, directed his Speech to Cornet Joyce, who, representing the Commander of the Party, stood before the Horse at the Foot of the Stairs. The King said, "That Cornet Joyce having, though at an unseasonable Hour in the Night, acquainted Him that he was come to convey His Majesty to the Army, His Majesty, according to His Promise, was there to give His Answer, in Presence of them all; but first He desired to know by whom He was authorized to propound this to His Majesty." Mr Joyce answered, "That he was sent by Authority from the Army." The King replied, "That He knew no lawful Authority in England but His own, and next under Him the Parliament;" but withal asked, "Whether he had any Authority from Sir Thomas Fairefax, and whether in Writing?" It being replied, "That Sir Thomas Fairefax was a Member of the Army;" the King insisted, "That He was not answered; Sir Thomas Fairefax, being their General, was not properly a Member, but Head of the Army." Joyce said, "That at least he was included in the Army; and that the Soldiers present were his Commission, being a Commanded Party out of every Regiment." The King replied, "That they might be good Witnesses, but He had not seen such a Commission before; and if they were his Commission, it was an Authority very well written, all handsome young Men." The King proceeded to say, "That He came to Holdenby, not by Constraint (though not so willingly as He might have done), to the Intent He might send Messages to His Two Houses of Parliament, and receive Answers from them; that accordingly He had sent several Messages to them, and thought Himself in a Sort obliged to stay for their Answers, which were not come; yet, if they gave Him such Reasons as might convince His Judgement, He would go with them; nay, the Commissioners should not stop Him: He desired therefore to know the Reasons they could give for this Journey." Joyce replied, "That a Plot for this Four Years last contrived, by some Members of both Houses, to overthrow the Laws of the Kingdom; that a Design to convey His Person to an Army newly to be raised for that Purpose; were the Causes of their undertaking this Employment, and hoped would prevail with His Majesty to go willingly with them, thereby to defeat the Purposes of those that would otherwise, by the Countenance of His Person, perturb the Peace of the Kingdom; and that His being with the Army was the readiest Expedient He could think upon, to procure Him a speedy and satisfactory Answer to His former Messages." The King returned, "That He knew no Syllable of any such Design or intended Army; and that to seek an Answer with so many gallant Men at his Back were to extort it, which were very unhandsome; besides that their Proposal looked like an Opposition to the Parliament, which He desired not, or would ever infringe their just Privileges of the Laws of the Land: That these Reasons induced Him, not to go willingly; and therefore desired to know what they intended if He would not go with them." It was answered, "That they hoped His Majesty would not put them to use those Means which otherwise they should be necessitated to if He refused: For the Commissioners, or any else that refused, they knew well what Course to take with them." The King protested, "That, unless they gave Him Satisfaction to the reasonable and just Demands He should make, He would not go with them, unless they carried Him by absolute Force; and He thought they would well think upon it, before they would lay violent Hands upon their King: That the Commissioners had never put any Constraint upon Him; they were more civil." Then He propounded, "That He might be used with Honour and Respect; that they would not force Him in any Thing contrary to His Conscience or His Honour, though He hoped He had long ago so fixed His Resolutions, that no Force could cause Him to do a base Thing; though they were Masters of His Body, yet His Mind was above their Reach." But to those Propositions they consented with a general Acclamation; Mr. Joyce adding, "That their Principles were, not to force any Man's Conscience, much less the King." Then His Majesty desired, "That those which attended Him, and some other of His Servants against whom they had no just Exceptions, might be permitted to wait upon Him." This being agreed, the King asked "Whither they would have Him go?" Oxford was first nominated, then Cambridge. The King named Newmarkett; which accepted, He desired Care might be taken to carry His Stuff; wherein, Mr. Joyce said, something was done already. Other Expressions of their Respect to the King, of the Army's Desire to see Him with them, and of their Fidelity towards Him, were intermixed in the Discourse, together with Complaints of the Proceeding of the Parliament towards them; "which, the King said, He would not adjudge unless He heard both Sides." The King having ended; at the Desire of the Commissioners, He gave them Leave to speak to the Troops; who, having repeated the Sum of their Instructions from both Houses, whereby they were appointed to attend His Majesty at Holdenby till further Orders, did publicly protest against His Removal, and against this Act of the Soldiers, as unlawful in itself, and dangerous to them; requiring so many of them as would stand by the Commissioners in Opposition thereof to declare themselves accordingly: But it being with a general Voice answered, "That not a Man of them would do so;" the Commissioners added, "That, as honest Men, they held themselves obliged to discharge the Trust reposed in them to the utmost of their Power; and agreeable thereunto, if they had Force for the Service, they would withstand them to the Loss of their Lives; but, since they were not in a Capacity at present, they must acquiesce. As the King turned back to go into the House, Major Tomlins declared to His Majesty, in the Presence of the Commissioners, That, according to the Orders they gave him, he had endeavoured what he could to induce the Troops assigned for the ordinary Guards, which he commanded in the Absence of Colonel Greavis, to draw up and make Resistance, but without Effect, they all refusing to obey him therein."



Adjourn, 10a To-morrow Morning.