Proceedings in Parliament 1624: The House of Commons. Originally published by British History Online, 2015-18.
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THURSDAY, 29 APRIL 1624
I. JOURNAL OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS, PA, HC/CL/JO/1/14
[CJ 693; f. 18]
Jovis, 290 Aprilis, 220 Jacobi
L. 2a. An/
A warrant from Mr. Speaker for witnesses, books, writings and records concerning Corpus Christi College in Oxon. to the committee.
L. 1a. [Blank]
Knights and burgesses of Surrey and Sussex added to the committee for Sir A[nthony] Aucher.
MR. [CHRISTOPHER] BROOKE reports Sir Edward Herne's bill, with amendments, which twice read. Engrossetur.
And [Edward] Alcock's bill, without amendments. Engrossetur.
L. 2a. [Blank]
SIR P[ETER] RIDDELL. Appears in the bill that this never paid since 9 H. 5.
[f. 18v] Committed to:
Tuesday next, Star Chamber, 2 [o']clock.
Tomorrow in the afternoon, the bill for the poor, in the former place.
L. 2a. [Blank]
Monday next, 2 [o']clock, Court of Wards.
[f. 19] MR. [JOHN] CARVILE reports the bill of the Chancery from the recommittee [sic], without amendments.
Recommitted to the former committee. And all that will come to have voice. This day sevennight in the Court of Wards.
SIR THOMAS WENTWORTH moves the committee may send for any (not being members of the Higher House) that can justify any the returns made of recusants, etc. And those which have not made their presentments full to do it tomorrow.
Sir Thomas Hoby and Mr. [John] Pym added to this committee, and Sir Nathaniel Rich and Sir H[enry] Mildmay and Sir P[eter] Heyman, Mr. [Laurence] Whitaker, Sir Thomas Myddelton.
SIR WILLIAM BULSTRODE. That this committee may take consideration of great persons, recusants, that dwell upon the sea-coasts in dangerous places to let in the enemy.
Resolved, this committee shall take consideration thereof, [blank] Friday, Star Chamber, clock [sic] 2 [o']clock.
SIR PETER HEYMAN. That divers have been omitted in several counties living here about London.
Resolved, this committee shall take consideration thereof that the certificate may be made perfect.
The committee likewise to take consideration of the certificate put into the House concerning the recusants of St. Andrew [Holborn] parish.
MR. [JOHN] LOWTHER reports the bill of bankrupts, with amendments, which twice read, and a proviso.
SIR H[ENRY] POOLE. Parties may be beyond sea, therefore hard to make it felony.
Upon question, the proviso rejected.
Upon question, the bill not to be recommitted.
Upon second question, to be engrossed.
SIR GUY PALMES. To have a committee to draw a bill for continuance of all bills the next session, in statu quo, which will husband much time.
SIR ROBERT PHELIPS. To have a committee to consider of this.
SIR GEORGE MORE, contra.
MR. [EDWARD] ALFORD, pro.
MR. SECRETARY, pro.
SIR EDWARD COKE, contra. Innovations dangerous.
MR. WANDESFORD, pro.
SIR GEORGE CHUDLEIGH, pro, for petitions only.
MR. [JOHN] WHISTLER, [f. 19v] contra.
SIR EDWIN SANDYS, pro.
SIR JOHN ELIOT, contra.
SIR D[UDLEY] DIGGES, contra, yet agrees to the committing it. To select out the best businesses and proceed with them, and refuse other.
SIR EDWARD GILES. To have a catalogue of the bills in the House and how they stand.
The bills to go to passage today and tomorrow.
MR. SPEAKER delivers and reads a letter from the King concerning the Virginia petition.
The petition, by general resolution, withdrawn.
L. 3a. An act for confirmation of a law made 40 Jac. concerning clothing.
Upon question, passed.
The petition of Mr. York [sic] to be referred to the committees for the heralds.
Lynn and Yarmouth burgesses to attend the committee of grievances tomorrow.
Tomorrow morning for the report for the Merchant Adventurers concerning the composing of the difference between the Merchant Adventurers and other merchants concerning the venting of cloth.
[Christopher] Eland's patent for making of red lead to be brought in to the committee for grievances on Monday next, and the patentee to attend at the same time.
Sir William Byrd and Sir Robert Rich bring from the Lords 2 bills:
The proviso in the bill of usury thrice read, and allowed.
Mr. Attorney General and Sir Charles Caesar bring a message from the Lords to signify the Lords desire a conference by the committees of both Houses concerning limitations of actions and pleading of licence of alienations. Have named a committee of 28. Desire a meeting in the Painted Chamber, tomorrow, 3 of the clock.
Ordered, the messenger that shall carry up the next bills shall desire the Lords to remember the bill of concealments.
Answer. We will send answer presently by messengers of our own.
Answer sent by Mr. Comptroller that we cannot with conveniency attend the service tomorrow, but if it may/
L. 3a. An act for free liberty of fishing upon the coasts of America, etc.
[f. 20] Resolved, the debate about this bill of fishing, now thirdly read, to be deferred until 10 [o']clock tomorrow, and to proceed with passing bills at 9. Vide postea, Lunae, 30 Maii, passed.
The knights, burgesses and barons of York, Lancaster and Cinque Ports to be added to the bill between [Sir Edward] Fisher and [John] Wrenham.
MR. [JOHN] GLANVILLE reports Dr. [Nathaniel] Harris's cause heard at the committee of privileges. That he uses ordinarily personal invectives. That the committee of opinion he should now come as a delinquent upon his knee and acknowledge his error; and, upon Sunday sevennight, in the beginning of his sermon, to do the like, and desire the love of his neighbours.
Report by Mr. Comptroller that the Lords will give meeting on Saturday in the afternoon at 2 of the clock.
Petition against [Matthias] Fowle referred to the committee appointed for Fowle's examination and business.
II. JOURNAL OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS, PA, HC/CL/JO/1/13
[CJ 778; f. 174v]
Jovis, 29 Aprilis 1624
L. 2. An act for sale of the manor of Little Munden in the county of Hertford.
|Sir William Uvedale||Sir John Pakington|
|Sir Charles Morrison||Sir Eubule Thelwall|
|Mr. [Christopher] Brooke||Sir Robert More|
|Mr. Solicitor||Mr. [John] Pym|
|Sir George More||Sir Thomas Hoby|
|Mr. [John] Selden||Sir Gilbert Gerard|
[f. 175] [Blank]
Friday, 2 [o']clock, Court of Wards.
SIR GEORGE MORE. A petition yesterday against the master of/
Desire[s] a warrant for witnesses from the House to attend the committee at their sitting.
L. 1. An act for relief of the corporation of Feltmakers of London against a decree in Chancery at Christopher Warwick's suit.
L. 1. An act for the more speedy sealing of original writs.
Knights, burgesses, Surrey, Sussex added to the committee of Sir Anthony Aucher's bill.
MR. [CHRISTOPHER] BROOKE reads Sir Edward Herne's bill. Amendments twice read.
Ordered, to be engrossed.
And the bill for the sale of the manor of Rampton, without amendments.
Ordered, to be engrossed.
L. 2. An act concerning an ancient revenue of the crown of 2d. upon a chaldron of seacoal sold in the port of Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
Tuesday, 2 [o']clock, Star Chamber.
Committee for the poor to meet tomorrow, 2 [o']clock, former place.
L. 2. An act to prevent the murdering and destroying of bastard children.
Monday next, 2 [o']clock, Court of Wards.
MR. [JOHN] CARVILE reports the bill for regulating of the Chancery.
[f. 176] Recommitted to the former committee. And all to have voice. This day sevennight, Court of Wards.
The committee about recusants, this afternoon, to have power to send for any that are not members of the Upper House that may justify the certificates returned; and to send for those knights and members that have not made their presentments according to order.
Sir Thomas Hoby
Sir Nathaniel Rich
Sir Henry Mildmay
Sir Peter Heyman
Mr. [Laurence] Whitaker and Mr. [John] Pym added to the committee.
This committee also to take into consideration such persons as live in any place near the sea-coast in dangerous places to let in any enemies.
MR. COMPTROLLER tenders his presentment for Middlesex.
This committee also to take into consideration those that are in office in any county or city though not living in the county. The members of the House to amend their certificates in that point.
Certificate presented for Kent and the Cinque Ports referred to the committees [blank] who are to meet on Friday, 2 [o']clock, Star Chamber.
A note delivered in to the House from St. Andrew, Holborn, of 800 recusants in that parish. This referred to the committee also.
[f. 176v] [ALGERNON] LORD PERCY delivers the presentment for Sussex. Referred to the committee.
SIR JOHN CORBET delivers a certificate from Norfolk. Referred to the committee.
SIR THOMAS MYDDELTON. Has a presentment of all recusants about London, inhabitants out of every ward. That referred to the committee also.
MR. [JOHN] LOWTHER reports the bankrupts bill. Amendments twice read. A proviso tendered from the committee to make it felony if the bankrupt stand out 6 months and come not in after proclamation. The proviso, upon question, rejected.
The bill ordered to be engrossed.
SIR GUY PALMES. To have a committee chosen to draw a bill to make all the bills that pass not this session to remain in the state they shall be left in the next session.
SIR ROBERT PHELIPS. Accordant. To have a committee chosen to consider whether it may stand with the privilege of the House to have this done.
SIR GEORGE MORE. This against all former precedents. To walk in the steps of our forefathers.
MR. SECRETARY. Not for any innovation, but is informed that there are many precedents for this. Fit to be taken into consideration.
SIR EDWARD COKE. This will be against the privilege of the House. Never done in Parliament. Will breed. Our bills corpora opaca, like the moon and stars. [f. 177] Receive all their light from the sun of justice. Innovations in Parliament most dangerous.
SIR GEORGE CHUDLEIGH. To have some look whether any such precedent or no.
SIR EDWIN SANDYS. A safe and discreet thing to walk in the steps of our ancestors. A great dishonour to this House to dismiss so many suitors and attendants without any satisfaction. Will show a precedent of the last Parliament. To pass some bills and make an adjournment, as last Parliament.
SIR DUDLEY DIGGES. Time enough yet to make choice of the most important businesses and to draw them to some conclusion.
MR. SPEAKER. This morning he received a letter from his Majesty concerning a petition exhibited to this House about the Virginia business.
L. 3. An act for continuance of a former statute made in the 4th year of the King's Majesty's reign of England entitled, An act for the true making of woollen cloths.
Upon question, passed.
York [herald]'s business referred to the committee for the heralds to be considered of by them.
[f. 177v] [Mark] Quested, [William] Angell, Holsey to be sent for to attend tomorrow to attend [sic] the committee of grievances.
Tomorrow morning the report to be made from the committee about the Merchant Adventurers.
[Christopher] Eland's patent to be brought in to the committee of grievances on Monday next. For lead.
L. 3. An act for the maintenance and increase of shipping and navigation and for the freer liberty of fishing and fishing voyages to be made and performed.
This bill to be put to the question tomorrow morning, 10 [o']clock, and to proceed with engrossed bills at 9 [o'clock].
A message from the Lords by Sir William Byrd and Sir Robert Rich. The Lords have sent 2 bills:
- 1. An act against usury, with one amendment.
- 2. A private bill to confirm [blank] Earl of Oxford's bill.
A proviso to the bill of usury thrice read, and allowed to be added to the bill.
The certificate from Warwick read. Referred to the committee.
Another message from the Lords, by Attorney [General] and Sir Charles Caesar. [Blank] [f. 178] The Lords signify their desire a [sic] conference concerning 2 bills:
Tomorrow, 3 [o']clock, Painted Chamber. Have appointed a committee of 28 of their House. [Blank]
Answer. This House has taken into consideration the message. They will presently return an answer by messengers of their own.
Mr. Comptroller sent up to the Lords with this message: to desire the conference may be on Saturday morning, 8 [o']clock.
Knights, burgesses, York, Lancaster and Cinque Ports added to the committee for [Sir Edward] Fisher's bill.
MR. [JOHN] GLANVILLE reports from the committee of privileges for Doctor [Nathaniel] Harris. Committee have enjoined him to attend de die in diem. Sent for him and the witnesses. Find at the last committee, where he was present, that he said all that a gentleman of this House had said was all lies. Committee clearly satisfied that his a great and high offence. Opinion now to come to the bar as a delinquent and to be admonished, and to confess his fault here and in the country, in the pulpit of his parish church on Sunday sevennight before his sermon.
Resolved, he shall be brought in to the bar tomorrow at 11 [o']clock.
MR. COMPTROLLER reports from the Lords. They accept the time of Saturday afternoon, 2 [o']clock, Painted Chamber.
The time accepted by this House.
III. DIARY OF JOHN HAWARDE, WILTSHIRE AND SWINDON ARCHIVES, 9/34/2
Jovis, 29 Aprilis 1624
2. L. Bill par 2d. per chaldron de seacole al Newcastle.
Sur question, committe.
2. L. Bill versus murderante de bastard infants.
Sur question, committe.
Bill pur reversing orders and decrees in Chancerye.
Sur question, [re]committee. Reporte par [MR. JOHN] CARVILE.
SIR THOMAS HOBY move touchante certificate pur recusants.
Bill pur farther descripcion dun bankrupte et corporall punishment dascuns. Reporte par MR. [JOHN] LOWTHER.
Sur question, deste ingrosse.
Motion par diverse davoir bill pur leaver touts bills and proceedantes in cest Parliamente de remainer in statu quo al prochein cession.
SIR EDWARD COKE. Que est envers le privilege de Parliamente et est desperate et dangerous innovacon.
Plus long debate, rejecte.
Letre del Roye de grande grace direct al Speaker pur staie del busynes de Virginia.
[p. 274] [3. L.] Bill pur enlargemente del leye pur vere fesant de woollen clothes.
Sur question, passe pur ley.
Bill pur maintynance del navy et frank piscante and piscante voyages in Virginia et novel angliterre.
SIR THOMAS HOBY. No man can speak when a bill is in readinge.
In regard de ceux messages fuit adjourne.
Message del seignours par [Sir William] Byrd et [Sir Robert] Rich ove 2x bills:
- 1. Bill pur usurie ove amendment in parchemente ove proviso, et, sur question, le proviso passe.
- Sur 2nd question, adde le proviso al bill.
Message del seignours par l'attornie [general] et Sir Charles Caesar. Desire conference tomorrow, 2 [sic] a clocke, 28 [seignours] in Painted Chamber [touchante]:
2 a clocke, Satterdaye.
[p. 275] Post meridiem, [committee of the Whole House]
Sir Robert Heath in le chaire pur le subsidie.
- 1. Serements pur tresorers and counsell del guerre deste minister pur ceux appointe par cest acte.
- 2. Lour servants £50 a peece, sur question.
- 3. Chamber de Londres.
- 4. Counsell del guerre nominate in le bill.
- 5. Charge de soldiars in ordinary forme deste repris hors del common stocke.
- 6. Acquaintances enroll.
- 7. Garrants del counsell del guerre enroll.
- 8. Si ne charge deins au puis resceit en prochein cession deste discharge a tout jours.
And now we coulde proceede no farther before the Counsell of Warre be appointed by his Majestie under the Greate Sealle of England because they are to be named in this bill. And that the Solicitor showlde move his Majestie for the same.
And, at the motion of Sir Robert Phelips and Sir Edward Coke, that he wolde intimate to his Majestie for the time of this cession that the dayes of payemente mighte be inserted; that a proclamacyon mighte be sente down into [p. 276] all the dominions againste Jesuites, seminaries and preistes and for execucion of lawes againste popishe recusants; then wee showld goe on cheerefullye with the subsidies, as it is fitte wee showlde, for the kingedome is in greate perill at this time. But yet that all mighte holde equall pace and no such haste with a cessyon, but that bothe pardon, grevances and good reall lawes mighte goe on together, albeit not before Whitsontide, yet about Whitsontide or soone after.
This intimate as the inclination of the Howse, but yet not mooved or desyred by or from them. And it was very well approoved by all.
IV. DIARY OF JOHN HOLLES, BL, HARL. MS 6,383
Thursday, 29th of April
SIR GUY PALMES moved that the session drawing near an end and many businesses begun and not finished, a law should be made for the ease of suitors and saving charge of new bills that all bills should remain statu quo prius to begin next sessions [sic] where they are now left.
MR. [THOMAS] WENTWORTH. Many now here might then peradventure be dead, and therefore no reason to bind them that had not heard the beginnings, and it is contrary to all precedents in Parliament.
MR. [JOHN] WHISTLER, a lawyer. We can make no such order by law and [f. 139] to make a new law were very dangerous, he thought. This motion would be more seasonable at the beginning of next sessions [sic].
SIR EDWARD COKE. To make this order might give the King occasion to leave most of our weighty bills until the next sessions [sic].
SIR EDWIN SANDYS was for Sir Guy Palmes's motion, saying we should have by this means both a session and the effect of an adjournment, and that we may as well create new precedents as continue the old, and if our ancestors had been so tender to make precedents, we should have been without them.
So this motion was left undecided, and the House fell to other business.
There came a letter from the King to the Speaker, which the SPEAKER was to read himself. The superscription was "To our trusty and well-beloved Sir Thomas Crewe, knight and Serjeant-at-Law and Speaker of our House of Commons". The effect was to prohibit the further prosecution of the petition sent the King from the House concerning Virginia.
V. DIARY OF JOHN LOWTHER, CUMBRIA ARCHIVE CENTRE, CARLISLE, DLONS/L/2/1
[29 April 1624]
Moved to have bills and business to stand as now at the next meeting by a bill rejected after a long debate, as a bill sent from the Lords to that end was last Parliament, as an occasion to give excuse to put off the passing of good laws, and to conclude the House.
A committee to consider of the recusants suspected to be put out of commission to be presented to the King.
I reported the bill of bankrupts, and engrossed, and delivered a writ of privilege of arrest because some of his creditors will not assent as an extraordinary grievance.
VI. DIARY OF EDWARD NICHOLAS, TNA, SP 14/166
Thursday, 290 Aprilis 1624
There was a proviso offered to be inserted into the bill against bankrupts, which was to this effect: that if a bankrupt after 5 proclamations and shall not come in within 6 months after these 5 proclamations and notice then left at his house, shall suffer death as a felon but it shall be no attainder in blood. This proviso was rejected, and the bill against bankrupts ordered to be engrossed.
It was moved that a bill might be drawn to enact that all bills and businesses should stand until the beginning of the next sessions [sic] of this Parliament in the House as they should be left at the end of this sessions [sic].
The reasons against this motion were that such an act would occasion the King to put off the giving of his royal consent to many good bills which are prepared for the royal consent, saying since all bills stand in statu quo nunc until the next sessions [sic] that his Majesty will then pass the other bills. Another reason is because that some of our House may before the next sessions [sic] discover something which may show good reason for the alteration of something in such bills as are passed this House and not the Lords' or that are here ordered to be engrossed, and if they are to stand at the beginning of the next sessions [sic] as they did at the end of this sessions [sic] they cannot be amended.
That motion, though much debated, is let fall without any order.
[f. 183] MR. SPEAKER delivers a letter which he received yesterday from the King, dated at Windsor 280 Aprilis 1624. That his Majesty holds it unfit for the Parliament to be troubled with factious and dissentious businesses which may disturb the good businesses of this House. That the King will take it to heart and make it his own work to establish the state and business concerning Virginia and the Bermudas, and therefore wishes that it may no further trouble the good business in this House.
An act for the continuance of a former act made in 40 Regis entitled, An act for the true making of woollen cloths and for some additions and alterations of the same. 3. L. r. p. This bill is now passed this House.
Ordered, that Mr. [William] Angell, serjeant of the [a]catry, Mr. [Mark] Quested and Captain [blank] and the burgesses of Lynn and Yarmouth shall be here tomorrow at the committee of grievances to inform the House concerning the abuses committed by Sir Simon Harvey.
An act for the maintenance and increase of shipping and mariners [blank] and for the freer liberty of fishing and fishing voyages on the coasts and seas of Newfoundland, Virginia, New England and other parts of America. 3. L. Dormit Lords. [f. 183v] This bill is passed this House.
Message from the Lords, who send us the bill against usury with an amendment which is: provided [blank] that no words [blank] in this law contained shall be construed or expounded to allow the practice of usury in religion or conscience, which proviso is now presently third read and passed this House.
Another message from the Lords, signifying [blank] that the Lords do desire a conference by committees of both Houses tomorrow in the afternoon in the Painted Chamber at 3 of [the] clock, their number is 28, touching two bills: the one the bill for limitations of actions; the other touching the bill of licences of alienations and ease of pleading in the Exchequer.
Our answer: that we will send an answer presently of our own. We sent a message to the Lords and Saturday in the afternoon is appointed.
VII. DIARY OF SIR THOMAS HOLLAND, RAWL. D. 1,100, BODLEIAN LIBRARY
29 April, Thursday
Second read, committed. An act for the assurance of land in Monmouthshire [sic] between Sir Charles Caesar and Peter Vanlore.
First read. An act concerning the Feltmakers in suit in Chancery.
First read. An act for the speedy sealing of original writs.
[MR. CHRISTOPHER] BROOKE reports [Edward] Alcock's bill. Put to the engrossing.
Second read, committed. An act for the revenue of the crown of 2d. a chaldron of seacoal in Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
Second read, committed, Monday. An act against the destroying and murdering of bastard children.
Recommitted. [MR. JOHN] CARVILE reports the bill/
[f. 60] [SIR GILBERT] GERARD informs that in a parish in the suburbs in Holborn, in St. Andrew, 300 persons besides 500 persons in the ambassador's house and noblemen's houses.
[SIR NATHANIEL] RICH moves that these before-named recusants may come to their trial.
This to be considered of at the committee.
[MR. JOHN] LOWTHER reports an act for the further description of a bankrupt and further the relief of the creditors against them.
[SIR EDWARD] COKE moves that whereas it is in the proviso that the bankrupt shall be a felon after 5 proclamations, and 6 months after those proclamations he shall not give satisfaction he shall be a felon, he moves that he may have counsel allowed and witnesses examined.
[SIR ROGER] NORTH moves that the proviso may be rejected and the bill stand, for that in Suffolk bankrupts have gone away with £100,000.
[f. 60v] Many spoke against the proviso. The proviso is rejected, by question.
[MR. WILLIAM] CAGE moves that the bill may pass.
The bill is put to the engrossing.
[SIR GUY] PALMES moves that a committee may be chosen to take into consideration the bills that are read and engrossed, and draw a bill for the continuance of them in the same nature we leave them. He moves that a few of a committee may be chosen who may consider whether it may stand with the privilege of the House.
[SIR GEORGE] MORE. He thinks that there can be no precedent found to warrant it, neither stands it with reason that half a law should pass at one time and half at another. Is not fit, neither is it [f. 61] certain that we shall all live until the next session, and then will it be thought fit that if any die and new come in their rooms that those who new come shall make half laws?
[MR. EDWARD] ALFORD. He moves that if these things be considerable that a committee may then take it into their consideration.
SECRETARY. He has heard that there be precedents that bills have remained as they are at the next session. He desires that if it be so we may go on by a committee.
[SIR EDWARD] COKE. Never heard of any such precedent, therefore such an innovation is dangerous. Our bills are corpora opaca; they must have light from the king. He shall have time to view those things but moving which may be prejudicial, for so may our best bills be stayed. [f. 61v] He will never give his consent to it.
[SIR EDWIN] SANDYS. He holds it safe way to walk in the path of our ancestors. We have had many meetings of Parliaments which have not been [a] session, which cause the multitude of business. He moves that a committee may be chosen that the business which shall be left shall be in the state they are at the next session. Yet whether that this may not occasion the leaving of some of our best bills by his Majesty until our next meeting, that may be dangerous.
[SIR DUDLEY] DIGGES moves we may follow those things which have been longest in the House and seclude those things which daily come in.
[f. 62] King's letter to the Speaker. To our trusty and well beloved [blank]. That whereas some of the Virginia Company [blank] hold it unfit that the Parliament House should take that in hand which will breed schism and faction [blank] that our House of Commons will [illegible] take it in good part and correspond with us in this thing/
VIII. DIARY OF RICHARD DYOTT, STAFFORDSHIRE RECORD OFFICE, MS D661/11/1/2
Bill for [illegible] of [remainder of line illegible] Chancery before the judges [illegible] by writ of error. Recommitted this day sevennight in Court of Wards.
Ordered, [?that the] committee for presentments of papists [?illegible] to take into consideration what papists dwell near the seaside. And [f. 112] likewise that 800 in the parish of St Andrew in Holborn, besides those in Lord Petre's house, Lord Eure's etc., amounting as we think to 500, and the names of all inhabitants [?4 words illegible] [?London] to be presented.
Bill [?2 words illegible] [?further] description of a bankrupt [?and inflicting] of corporal punishment [?in] some cases.
It was passed the last Parliament.
A [?proviso] to take away life [?in case] a man [1 line illegible] [?was] rejected.
[1 line illegible]
Motion by [SIR GUY] PALMES that a law may be made for continuing of business in the same state we leave it. It will be a great deal of ease to the house and suitors.
[f. 112v] [MR. THOMAS] WENTWORTH. No precedent for it, nor reason neither. It was never seen that [illegible] went one day's journey one session, [?2 words illegible] the days during [?another] session. And God knows how many of us shall be alive at the next meeting, or how the times may alter the occasion of the law.
[?Illegible] MR. SECRETARY. That [?has heard] that there be the like precedents; would have them to be searched. We make laws to bind the whole kingdom, why may we not make a law to bind those that [?shall be] of the House in the [?2 words illegible] them [?3 words illegible].
[SIR EDWIN] SANDYS. 'Tis a safe and discreet [illegible] to [illegible] walk in the steps of our ancestors especially in things [?which] have well succeeded. But it belongs to the wisdom [illegible] liberty of [?the] Parliament upon extraordinary occasions to make precedents. And if our ancestors had not done so [f. 113] we had had no precedents now, for there was a time that they began. It may be an occasion for the weighty business to be put off until the next session. For that that some may die, so they may in case of an adjournment, and then business may continue in the same state. Now many be absent, which dead to us as to service. No danger that business shall not be examined, for the bills may be recommitted and debated again. Would have a committee for it.
[SIR DUDLEY] DIGGES. 'Tis against the fundamental liberty of the house, of dangerous consequence. We had experience that this Parliament many bills have been reformed which passed the last Parliament.
Ordered, no more question of it.
[f. 113v] A witness is to be excepted against before he speak, lest by speaking he should make an ill impression.
A letter from King, read by the SPEAKER. That there may be no repetition and renewing of the differences (almost composed by ourselves and our counsel) between the company of Virginia. I will make it my own work, etc.
IX. DIARY OF JOHN PYM, NORTHAMPTONSHIRE RECORD OFFICE, FH/N/C/0050
April 290, 1624
An act for confirmation of a conveyance made by Sir Peter Vanlore.
An act for relief of the master, wardens and company of the Feltmakers against a decree in Chancery.
An act for more speedy sealing of original writs.
MR. [CHRISTOPHER] BROOKE reported two private bills:
An act concerning 2d. upon a chaldron of seacoal due to the King in Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
This was supposed to be due by the recital of an act of Parliament 9 H. 5, and (as was informed by SIR THOMAS [sic] RIDDELL) has been never paid since, so is another pretermitted custom. The truth is there is 2d. taken by the town by virtue of their fee farm of the town and the river, and some of the town at that time desired an act for the measuring of seacoal because they were willing to sell less for their money and pretended there was a loss to the King because the fee farmers received this money under the king's title.
There was now brought in from the committee the bill for reforming erroneous decrees in courts of equity, to which there were some new exceptions taken:
- 1. That it seemed to countenance new proof, for the word "falsities" goes to matters in fact.
- 2. The impropriety of the word[s] "writ of error" in respect of English decrees.
The order for certifying recusants in authority enlarged with power to send for witnesses that such certificates which are defective might be perfected.
And it was moved by SIR WILLIAM BULSTRODE that the committee might inquire what great men inhabit near the sea-coasts where they may admit the King's enemies to land.
MR. [JOHN] LOWTHER reported a bill for the further description of [f. 83v] a bankrupt and the relief of creditors against bankrupts and corporal punishment in some cases. There was a proviso in this bill which made it felony if the debtor, after 5 proclamations and 3 summons under the hand of the commissioners, did absent himself six months.
To this was objected it was unnatural to force men to yield themselves perpetual prisoners or else to hang them because they could not pay their debts.
So after some debate this proviso was rejected.
SIR WILLIAM COPE desired that gentlemen and knights might be included in the law.
But the House did not think fit to enlarge it, unless the Lords might likewise be bound, which was conceived would never pass.
Ordered, to be engrossed.
It was moved that a short bill might be drawn to keep the business of the House in the same case it should be at the breaking up of the session, so that at our next meeting we should not be enforced to read our bills again. But divers objections:
- 1. That it was unsafe to introduce a precedent which might in time overgrow the fundamental proceedings of Parliament.
- 2. The like course offered by the Lords in 180 was rejected.
- 3. Divers new men like to come in before the next session.
- 4. Engrossed bills must then be passed upon one reading when the business would be out of mind.
For which reasons this course was refused.
MR. SPEAKER informed the House that he had received a letter from his Majesty. It was ordered he should first read it himself. Afterwards it was read publicly. The effect of it was that his Majesty took notice of a petition delivered by the company of Virginia. Doubting it might renew some discontents and distraction among some members of the House and trouble the proceeding of other business which he heard was in good forwardness, he gave us to understand that he had himself taken it to heart and would make it his own work, and therefore desired us to withdraw all occasions which trouble our peace.
MR. BERKELEY, who sat in the chair for that business, desired he might deliver back the petition.
So there was no more proceedings upon that business.
An act to continue a law made 40 Jac. entitled, An act to prevent the false making of cloth. Passed.
An act for maintenance and increase of shipping and navigation and for free fishing upon the coast of New England.
The debate was interrupted by a message from the Lords, by which 2 [sic] bills with amendments were returned:
- 1. Against usury, to which these words were added, "provided the law shall not be construed to allow the practice of usury in religion and conscience". This proviso was read 3 times and passed.
- 2. The second was the bill for making the river [Thames] navigable to Oxford.
[f. 84] Another message came from the Lords desiring a conference concerning 2 bills:
- 1. For limitation of actions to avoid suits of law.
- 2. Touching pleading licences of alienation, which conference was agreed and committees appointed.
X. JOURNAL OF SIR SIMONDS D'EWES, BL, HARL. MS 159
April 290, Thursday
An act for speedy sealing of original writs.
An act for an ancient right of the crown for 2d. a chaldron upon Newcastle [sea]coals, as appears by a statute Henrici 5ti, 90.
An act for the further description of a bankrupt, for relief of creditors against them and inflicting punishment in certain cases.
Former descriptions had been made Eliz. 130, Jacobi 10.
A motion for bills and businesses now on foot to stand statu quo, as they are now left, to be found at the beginning of the next sessions [sic].
SIR EDWIN SANDYS, MR. [EDWARD] ALFORD, SIR ROBERT PHELIPS and divers great Parliament-men were for it because suitors had attended long and now little was like to [f. 110] be done for them.
But the House was generally against it, conceiving it a great innovation, no precedent for it. They would not bind the hands of posterity that come here free. Many may die and new ones coming in must take our businesses as we have left it, whereas we ourselves have altered divers things in bills that were ready for passage last Parliament and that upon good reasons. Besides, it is a thing of a dangerous consequence, for so making new precedents here we should but give occasion to others to do the like against us. And the King might upon that ground stay all our good bills from passing and say they should rest until another session when more were ready and all should pass together. What we have done, our bills and businesses are but corpora opaca, though capable of light and that light must come from the king, as the moon and stars have it from the sun. Ergo, they thought fit to walk in the steps of their forefathers and yet would not resolve it by question one way nor other.
A motion to prefix a time after which no new matters shall be entertained, which was formerly used in Parliament because all businesses entertained might receive some satisfaction and none depart discontent; but the House would not bind themselves in that neither.
A letter from the King read by the SPEAKER that the House should not trouble itself with the Virginia business, as being matter merely of division and disturbance to them. His Majesty would make it his own work to settle those 2 plantations of Virginia and the Bermudas. So the petition delivered April 26 was withdrawn.
An act for the continuance of an act Jacobi 40 for the true making of woollen cloths and for some additions and alterations of the same. Passed.
An act for increase of navigation and for free fishing upon the coast of New England and other places upon the coasts of America. Passed not until May 30.