Proceedings in Parliament 1624: The House of Commons. Originally published by British History Online, 2015-18.
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MONDAY, 1 MARCH 1624
I. JOURNAL OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS, PA, HC/CL/JO/1/12
[CJ 674; f. 14]
Lunae, 10 Martii, 210 Jacobi
L. 1a. An act for naturalizing of David Stanniere.
L. 1a. An act for naturalizing of Jacques de Best.
[CJ 675] L. 1a. An act of repeal of a branch of a statute, made 34 H. 8, entitled, An act for certain ordinances in the King's Majesty's dominion and principality of Wales.
SIR A[RTHUR] INGRAM moves that thanks may be given from the House to Dr. [Isaac] Bargrave for his sermon; and that he will take further pains to put the same in print.
Ordered, Sir A[rthur] Ingram and Sir Edward Villiers shall do it.
L. 1a. An act for further reformation of jeofails.
L. 1a. An act for relief of patentees, tenants and farmers of crown lands and Duchy lands, in cases of forfeiture for not payment of their rents, or other service or duty.
L. 1a. An act for pleading the general issue.
SIR BENJAMIN RUDYARD. Thanks to God for our meeting here, and to the King for his great trust in us for the greatest matters of consequence, the match, Palatinate. Humbly to advise his Majesty to break off both the treaties of match and Palatinate. And that the Lords will join with us in entreating the King to declare both broken, before which time none of the King's friends will trust him.
SIR GEORGE MORE. This the cause of the greatest consequence he ever knew here. To give the King our advice first of the match. God only opens the eyes. Hagar. This done by the Prince's journey. Admired of all: so his protection there, both in soul and body; so his getting from thence. No further to treat about the match. To respite the Palatinate.
SIR ROBERT PHELIPS. We have lost so much by treaties, as to take the English away by the sword. The last Prince of Wales that came out of Spain, brought with him honour and victory; ours, security and safety. The long delays past show it will take no effect, though we desire it. Next, that unfit for us to desire it. This treaty the best army [f. 14v] and gain to Spain and house at Austria. As he has gotten, so is our loss.
For the Palatinate, the disasters great. Spain got it, keeps it, by his Indies. To go to him, by whom wounded. Rome and Spain twins. A diversive war upon Spain. To attend until we hear from the Lords.
SIR M[ILES] FLEETWOOD. We have suffered by the state of Spain pretending a marriage, but intending the gain of the Palatinate, Bohemia, etc., not the match. This plain by the King of Spain's letter to Olivares. Magnifies the Prince, for his journey, constancy in religion, etc. So the Duke. To break further treaty about the match as contrary to religion; secondly, against the honour of our King; thirdly, against the peace of our kingdom. To petition the King to proceed no further in any treaty.
SIR FRANCIS SEYMOUR. His Majesty's intentions in this match good, even for religion and state. Many hundreds seduced to idolatry by the Spanish agents. Attempted the Prince and Duke, who, though young, have persisted constant. The Palatinate lost by this treaty. No match intended by Spain. Not beneficial to us. They hold us heretics, admit us not Christian burial. The portion come to a pension and some jewels. To end the treaty, to send home the Spanish ambassadors. So, for the Palatinate, to rest upon his subjects. And to petition the King to put in execution the laws against recusants, and to banish all Jesuits, etc.
SIR JOHN ELIOT. War only will secure and repair us. To secure ourselves by preparing and setting out our own fleet; and to do this by those penalties the papists have already incurred.
MR. [JOHN] PYM. Against continuance of any treaty for match or Palatinate. To pray a conference with the Lords about a message to the King about it.
SIR ROBERT HITCHAM. Luce clarius, that both King and kingdom have been deluded. If Gondomar present, would neither put himself upon God nor the country, but would suffer judgement upon a nihil dicit. The match and Palatinate relatives. To proceed no further in treaty of either.
[f. 15] Mr. Serjeant [Sir Ranulphe] Crewe and Mr. Attorney [General] bring from the Lords a message intimating, that where, on Friday last, they had cleared Buckingham from any blame in his narrative part, they have thought fit to explain themselves, they meant not to go singly, but if this House thought fit, to join with this House by a joint committee, to give the King satisfaction.
MR. [EDWARD] ALFORD. To have, first, a report from the committee, and then to send answer by messengers of our own. Only now to give, by these messengers, thanks to the Lords for their correspondence.
This done by MR. SPEAKER.
MR. SOLICITOR reports from the committee about my Lord of Buckingham. That then resolved to go single and to do this by the mouth of our Speaker; and conceived directions, which read and generally allowed.
SIR J[AMES] PERROT. That the word "reflecting" is dubious.
SIR ROBERT PHELIPS. We are only now to agree upon a message to the Lords, in answer of the last message.
A message agreed to the Lords: that this House accepts the conference, and to desire their Lordships to appoint their number for a committee, time and place.
The last committee for this business to deliver this message. Sir Robert Phelips to be the speaker.
Another message, by Master of the Rolls, Lord Chief Baron and Mr. Attorney [General]: that in the great business propounded to both Houses for their advices, the Lords desire (if with conveniency the House may) tomorrow in the afternoon, at the hall in Whitehall, this House will give a conference of a committee of the whole House, or else, with as much speed as can be.
SIR D[UDLEY] DIGGES. To have the business more debated before we accept a conference.
SIR EDWARD CECIL. As the business of great consequence, so the greater need of speed. Spain loves to prevent by beginning with us. Shall we question or dispute the breaking off this match, which never intended? To have every man wear his sword in this House. To sit in the afternoon, rather than to defer it longer than until tomorrow.
[f. 15v] SIR ROBERT PHELIPS. To send answer by these messengers that we will speed it as much as possible, and, if with any conveniency we may, will give them meeting tomorrow in the afternoon; if we cannot, will send them answer tomorrow morning.
MR. [EDWARD] ALFORD. The question, whether we shall be so soon ready, or not. Persons to be especially appointed to speak, else confusion.
CHANCELLOR OF THE DUCHY. We not yet ripe for a conference.
MR. [JOHN] GLANVILLE. The Lords have had a day's advantage, in regard of our communion, and we a greater body, and so move more slowly.
Answer returned by the same messengers: that, if with any conveniency we can, will meet the Lords tomorrow in the afternoon, as desired; whereof, shall hear from us tomorrow in the forenoon.
MR. SECRETARY CALVERT. A message from the King to let the House know he takes knowledge of two petitions, already delivered in, against my Lord Keeper. That for these, my Lord Keeper is ready to give answer; but, forasmuch as not possible for him to remember all decrees, etc., therefore his Majesty would have no more entertained against him, except for corruption, wherein would not have him spared.
SIR H[ENRY] MILDMAY moves Mr. Speaker may meet here this afternoon.
SIR JOHN STRANGWAYS. We have to do with the most potent Prince in the world. To secure ourselves at home, first, by confining the great recusants to men well-affected, which will prevent Spain's hopes from them. That the trained soldiers may be provided of all arms, and disciplined and put in a readiness. Fortifications on the seacoasts, where need, as done by Sir John Norris in the west parts. To secure Ireland, reunite the Princes of Germany. To begin the maintenance of the war by the popish recusants' forfeitures.
[CJ 676] SIR D[UDLEY] DIGGES. To have a committee of the whole House to debate this business. Common lawyers, civil lawyers, land soldiers, sea soldiers, not of the least use. This committee, this afternoon.
[f. 16] SIR SIMEON STEWARD, accordant, for a committee.
SIR EDWIN SANDYS. To restrain our answer to his Majesty's proposition, which (as he conceives by relation) whether it were fit for him to hold any further treaty with Spain, or not. To proceed only to answer this, and not, as yet, to meddle with the consequences. Treaties the Spaniards' own game, at which we have played long with them. Wishes they have not beat us at it too much. To give the Lords a reason of our advice of breaking, if we so advise. Not fit only to yield the King our opinion, but the reasons. And to have these delivered to the Lords at the conference.
SIR ROBERT PHELIPS has delivered his message. That the Lords took our correspondence thankfully. Their number 12, in the Painted Chamber, instantly.
Ordered, a committee of the whole House shall sit this afternoon to debate the great business. This committee to meet at 2 of the clock, and Mr. Speaker to be present.
Ordered, the consideration of the message about my Lord Keeper to be respited until the great business past, and then to be debated and an answer to his Majesty about it.
The committee of privileges to examine former precedents in what manner the Clerk of this House has used to take his notes and make entries, and to report the same to this House.
MR. [EDWARD] ALFORD moves the petition to the King at Greenwich for taking his sword into his hand. Moves this may be ready against this afternoon.
SIR EDWARD SEYMOUR. That 5 ships going out to the East Indies. Great want of mariners. For stay of these.
MR. [MAURICE] ABBOT. 4 ships now going out; about 600 in all these ships. More prejudice to stay these, than to let them go.
[f. 16v] SIR EDWARD COOK reports from the Lords. A great respect from them to the House. My Lord of Canterbury said, that the matter delivered by my Lord of Buckingham led him to what he spoke, and that they had freed him from all blame, and was worthy, both of honour and thanks. That he told them how we agreed in it and how sensible we were of it. And that thus much shall be reported to the King, at his return to London, by the Lord Keeper.
SIR ROBERT MANSELL. The motion made by Sir Edward Seymour seasonable to be referred until the debate grow upon matter of war.
II. JOURNAL OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS, PA, HC/CL/JO/1/13
[CJ 722; f. 17]
Lunae, 1 Martii
L. 1a. An act for the naturalizing of David Stanniere.
L. 1. An act for the naturalizing of Jacques de Best.
Scandalous ministers, to be provided.
SIR ARTHUR INGRAM. Some 1 or 2 to give thanks to Doctor [Isaac] Bargrave for his sermon yesterday, and also to desire him to put it in print.
Ordered. Sir Edward Villiers and Sir Arthur Ingram shall do it.
L. 1a. An act/
[f. 17v] L. 1. An act for the further reformation of jeofails.
L. 1a. An act for relief of patentees, tenants and farmers of crown lands and Duchy lands in cases of forfeiture for non-payment of their rents or other service or duty.
L. 1a. An act to admit the subject of the general issue in informations of intrusion.
SIR BENJAMIN RUDYARD. Seeing the Prince has made a posting journey into Spain for discovery, let not us be slow to apply a remedy. Since this treaty with Spain, the Palatinate, let our principal care now be salus republicae. If we go on, we shall be caught in a net, the poorest and basest way of being destroyed. Not likely they will alter a ground of state for a compliment. Let us look on the face of Christendom now abroad. For the Palatinate. To advise his Majesty, humbly, to break off both the treaties and to entreat the Lords to join with us to his Majesty to do this speedily. To secure Ireland by soldiers. Really and roundly, to assist the Low Countries by a diversive war.
SIR GEORGE MORE. This a cause of the greatest weight that ever he knew within these walls. In such businesses, to go on with a slow pace. To begin with one, first, God having managed all this business, and miraculously brought home our Prince again.
SIR ROBERT PHELIPS.
- [1.] To endeavour what we have lost by prejudicial treaties, to recover, by a manly and English way, the cause that moved the Prince to his journey.
- 2. The success he had there.
We find that the last Prince of Wales that came out of Spain laden with arms and victory; this, with safety and security. Blessed be God that gave us such a Prince, and God that gave such affection to him. The marriage: whether to advise his Majesty to proceed in it, or no. [f. 18] No advised man will think this be fitting, but grant we might have it, whether fit or no. This treaty the best army the King of Spain has had these many years. We have lost our friends abroad, ourselves at home and almost God Almighty. This being so, let us make no long stand but conclude we think not fit to continue this treaty any longer.
Secondly, the Palatinate; can hardly name it but with sighs and sobs. Routed all our party in Germany. Occasioned more loss of Christian blood than Charles the 5th lost. Lost our reputation. To recover this, not to go there. Spain first got it and still defend it. He the first mover, the great wheel that moves all the little ones. Thinks they never intended the Palatinate in regard of the necessary use they have of it. Rome and Spain good friends, laugh and weep together. No choice but to recover it by a diversive war. Our enemy, the state of Spain. To desire a conference with the Lords.
SIR MILES FLEETWOOD hopes this Parliament will prove like the Mount Pisga, from where Balaam blessed Israel. Observes some passages in this treaty: the persons by whom we have suffered, the ministers of Spain; they pretended a marriage but never intended. The persons we are honoured by: the Prince, first. We may admire his constancy that would not forget the songs of Jerusalem in a strange land. He the hopes of our succeeding happiness. Second, the Duke of Buckingham, who much to be honoured for his employment.
- 1. Against religion.
- [2.] The honour of the King.
- 3. The peace of our state.
- 1. against religion [sic].
That like the Ark of God among the Israelites, Qui non videt, caecus est; qui non agnoscit, ingratus. Against the honour of our King, whose honour it has been to be the Defender of the Faith. Against the peace of the kingdom. What peace can be expected from them? To be humble suitors to his Majesty to proceed in no further treaty.
[f. 18v] SIR FRANCIS SEYMOUR. As we are one body, so let us with one heart and affection give counsel and advice to his Majesty. We have found, though contrary to his Majesty's intention, that our religion has lost much by means of the Spanish agents here. Have not left unattempted the Prince, his Highness, and the Duke. In the midst of this treaty, the King of Spain has turned our King's daughter and her children out of doors. In the third place, this match can be no ways beneficial to this kingdom. No benefit of alliance, for they hold us for heretics; if portion, that turned into a pension and a few jewels, which may happen to be counterfeit. To have a period forthwith put to this treaty. And that his Majesty would be pleased to treat no longer of the Palatinate, but leave that to the care of his loving subjects. Doubts not but we shall either restore them or change for the better. And to put in execution good laws against recusants and to banish popish priests.
SIR JOHN ELIOT. Fitter for us to do than speak. Signified to us at the last conference that our ships stayed in Spain. To advise his Majesty, for setting forth his own fleet, to require of the recusants a present supply of money.
MR. [JOHN] PYM. Debate a preparation to judgement. To bring this to a conclusion. To give our advice for both negatively, and to desire a conference with the Lords.
SERJEANT [SIR ROBERT] HITCHAM. If in the case of a private person, to be deceived 2 or 3 times an imputation to his judgement to trust again. This matter so clear and evident, that no man questions it. If Gondomar himself [CJ 723] present, would neither put himself upon God, nor the country. Of 2 evils, his safest course to have a judgement against him, upon nihil dicit. To do right to our judgements, that it may be said, so soon as ever came in Parliament, it was overruled.
[f. 19] A message from the Lords, by Serjeant [Sir Ranulphe] Crewe and Mr. Attorney [General]. The Lords have sent this message: that whereas on Friday last they sent to this House to intimate to us that they had cleared my Lord of Buckingham by a general vote and purposed by a committee to represent it to the King, they desire to explain themselves thus far, that they did not mean to divide or go apart from this House in regard delivered before both Houses. To proceed together.
MR. [EDWARD] ALFORD. To have a report made, first, from the committee for this purpose.
Answer: this House does give thanks to their Lordships for their good correspondence and will speedily, this forenoon, return answer by messengers of their own.
MR. SOLICITOR reports from the committee appointed to take into consideration the dishonour done to my Lord Duke [of Buckingham] and this House. Resolved there to go singly by ourselves and by the mouth of the Speaker. Directions set down in writing.
The directions read.
SIR JAMES PERROT. Quod dubitas, ne feceris. Thinks it more convenient to have this done jointly by both Houses than of ourselves. Excepts against the word "reflecting".
SIR ROBERT PHELIPS. To have a message to entreat the Lords to appoint their number, time and place.
SIR EDWIN SANDYS. One thing omitted: to acquaint the Lords how we have with an unanime consent.
The former committee for this business sent to the Lords with this message.
[f. 19v] Another message from the Lords, by Lord Chief Baron, Master Rolls and Mr. Attorney [General]: in the great business wherein his Majesty desires the speedy advice of both Houses, the Lords entreat a conference of a committee of both Houses tomorrow at 2 o'clock in the hall at Whitehall, or else as soon as can be.
SIR DUDLEY DIGGES. Not to go tomorrow.
SIR ROBERT PHELIPS. In our care to save time, we use the means to lose time. As our affections carry us apace, so to proceed likewise with judgement. To return this answer: that our care and affection shall make all the speed may be. If we can prepare business, will meet them tomorrow; if not, shall hear us tomorrow.
MR. [EDWARD] ALFORD. The Lords provided; divers here not spoke, nor no heads agreed on. Then to choose 6 or 8 to speak and answer at this conference. Not to be engaged. If tomorrow ready, to send to the Lords.
CHANCELLOR DUCHY. Unfit for a conference. Meeting and conference often mistaken.
MR. [JOHN] GLANVILLE. The Lords sat on Saturday and are grown to a conclusion. Therefore, aforehand with us.
Answer to the message: this House has a care and affection to speed this great business. If with conveniency they can, they will be ready to meet the Lords tomorrow; if not, they shall hear from us tomorrow.
Answer sent to the Lords by the committee of our House appointed to consider of the dishonour done to the Duke of Buckingham and this House. Sir Robert Phelips to deliver it.
[f. 20] SECRETARY CALVERT. A message from the King. The 2 Secretaries commanded by him that he takes notice of some informations in this House against my Lord Keeper. The Keeper ready to answer these, but desires this House not too ready and apt to entertain complaints against such officers, unless it be for matter of corruption.
SIR HENRY MILDMAY. So long as life, there is hope. To appoint the Speaker to meet here this afternoon to prepare this business.
MR. [WILLIAM] CORYTON, accordant. To prepare ourselves to meet the Lords tomorrow. A conference will not conclude us.
SIR JOHN STRANGWAYS. The first mover in this business moved. To do with the greatest and potentest king in the world. First, to secure ourselves at home, and after, to maintain a war abroad. To secure the kingdom a fair precedent. To confine the greatest recusants here. This will take away a great deal of his party. To have order for the providing of the trained soldiers. Come to 100 and 60 thousand men. To settle these, then to have such fortifications made on the seacoasts as formerly. This for home. To have the penalty of the statute put in execution against recusants.
SIR DUDLEY DIGGES. To have a committee this afternoon. Ibi recte consulitur, ubi propositio consulta controvertitur.
SIR EDWIN SANDYS. The original of our consultation now from his Majesty. To restrain our answer directly to his Majesty's propositions; neither to come short, nor exceed. At this time, to go no further than the King's proposition whether it may be fit for him to continue any longer his treaties with Spain. Treaties the Spanish game. We have played long with them at their own game. Cum canerem reges et praelia. Cynthius aurem vellit. To give the Lords a reason why to break these treaties. Do as counsellors should do. First, this afternoon, to debate whether/
[f. 20v] SIR ROBERT PHELIPS reports from the Lords. The Lords do take in very good part the disposition of this House. The number, 12; the place, Painted Chamber; the time, instantly.
Ordered, that double the number of our House shall presently meet them: 24 of the former committee.
Ordered, that a committee of the whole House shall sit this afternoon to debate the great business, and Mr. Speaker to be here at 2 o'clock.
SIR EDWARD SEYMOUR. To have Mr. Secretary's message from the King better explained.
MR. [EDWARD] ALFORD. To appoint some time, after this great business ended, to return a fair answer to his Majesty.
SIR PETER HEYMAN. To take into consideration whether any man's name shall be set down before this motion, or no.
Ordered, that the committee of privileges shall take this into consideration, and search ancient precedents in what manner the Clerk of this House has used to take notes and make entries, and to report the same to the House.
A copy of the petition preferred to the King the last Parliament to be brought after dinner.
SIR EDWARD SEYMOUR. 5 ships now going to the Indies, wherein 1,000 mariners, 800 barrels of powder. To have the House take notice of this. All the shipping of the west country at Newfoundland, fishing.
MR. [MAURICE] ABBOT. True, 4 ships prepared for the Indies. Intelligence from thence, 8 galleons and 2 carracks made ready for those parts. A ship or 2 at home of 800 ton apiece. If these ships stayed, a great prejudice [to] the kingdom.
[f. 21] SIR EDWARD COKE reports from the Lords. A great correspondence between the Lords and us. Lord of Canterbury delivered the very vote of this House; that the matter delivered by my Lord of Buckingham did lead him to speak what he had. They had cleared him from blame, and thought him worthy of honour and thanks. We agreed with them in all, and said also, how sensible this House was of these undue informations. Thanked us for this. Were examining of who were the authors of this, and desired us to do also.
The words: that the matter led my Lord of Buckingham to speak what he did, and that he was so far from deserving blame, that he deserved honour and thanks from both Houses, from the King and commonwealth. [CJ 724] The Lord Keeper to signify so much from both Houses to the King at his next coming to town.
Speaker went into his chair.
And SIR EDWIN SANDYS reports from the great committee. They have, with an unanimous consent, resolved that this House should give the King advice to break off both treaties. They also think fit to have a select committee, to draw certain grounds and reasons, to fortify their advice and opinions.
Agreed, upon question, that this House shall give advice to his Majesty to break off both treaties with Spain, both concerning the marriage and the Palatinate.
Agreed also, upon question, that a select committee of 12 shall be named to set down and collect their reasons to fortify this opinion of this House at the conference with the Lords. Presently, Court of Wards, and tomorrow at 9 o'clock to report to the House.
|Sir Edward Coke||Sir Robert Phelips|
|Sir Edwin Sandys||Sir Robert Mansell|
|Mr. Recorder||Sir Dudley Digges|
|Sir Nathaniel Rich||Sir Benjamin Rudyard|
|Sir Edward Cecil||Chancellor Exchequer|
|[f. 21v] Secretary Calvert|
III. DIARY OF JOHN HAWARDE, WILTSHIRE AND SWINDON ARCHIVES, 9/34/2
Mondaye, 1 Martii 1623
1. L. Bill pur naturalizinge David Stanniere.
1. L. Bill pur naturalizing Jacques de Best.
SIR ARTHUR INGRAM. Pur printing del sermon et doner thanks.
1. L. Bill pur principalitie de Wales pur repeale de branche del statute de 34 H. 8.
[p. 159] 1. L. Bill pur reformacion de jeofailes. 13 H. 8; 10 Eliz. de reformer ceux statutes et defectes de eux.
1. L. Bill pur releiffe de fermors des terres del corone pur non paimente de rente.
1. L. Bill pur pleder le generall issue in informacions d'intrusion.
SIR BENJAMIN RUDYARD. Pro salute animee aut reipublice. To breake off bothe treaties of the mache and Palatinate, unite his friendes abroade, joine with the Low Cuntries, secure Irelande; and at hoame, strengthen the seas; a warr of diversion.
SIR GEORGE MOORE. Proceed with one aloane, for the mache.
SIR ROBERT PHELIPS. [Blank]
SIR MILES FLEETWOOD. Null further treatie:
- 1. Pur honour de dieu.
- 2. Pur honour del Roy.
- 3. Pur honour et safetie del people ou kingdome. Qui non vidit cecus est, qui non agnoscit ingratus est.
SIR FRANCIS SEYMOUR. Spanish juglers: null alliance ove heretiques, porcion a pencion, jewelles counterfeites. Sutable with other there actons.
SIR JOHN ELIOT. [Blank]
MR. [JOHN] PYM. [Blank]
SIR ROBERT HITCHAM. Cibus ter coctus. If Gundemer were heere, he wold not put himselfe upon God and the country, and a judgement of nihil dicit.
[p. 160] Message from the Lords. Sir Ranulphe Crewe et the attornie generall. Thanks for there [sic] good correspondencye and doe agree to the conference.
MR. SOLICITOR. Reporte matters to be delyvered by the Speaker.
Messengers del seignours.
SECRETARY CALVERT. Message del Roye touchante le seignour Keeper. Si corrupcion, [autrement] recu null.
SIR HENRY MILDMAY. The House to sitte this afternoon.
SIR JOHN STRANGWAYS. Confine le papistes, secure notre coastes, a C and three scoare thousand men of our trayned companye.
SIR EDWIN SANDYS. Sur breache del mache depende grande consequente. Ambassades et treaties est les Spaniards' owne game. Onelye the breache of the mache onely [sic] and our reasons.
SIR ROBERT PHELIPS. Respons del message pur le seignour Buckingham, conference presentment.
[p. 161] Pur message del SECRETARY, SIR EDWARD SEYMOUR et MR. [EDWARD] ALFORD, pur Lord Keeper reporte: Tanque le grande busynes perfecte, donque retorne response al Roy.
SIR PETER HEYMAN. Null nosme al motion sine soit order in le Huise.
Par order ore referre al committee de privileges d'examiner presidentes quomodo le Clerke avoit use denter orders, et reporte al Huise.
MR. [EDWARD] ALFORD. Que le Clerke avoir cest afternoone les propositions present al Roy al Greenwich le darrein cessions [sic].
SIR EDWARD SEYMOUR. Pur staie les shipps prepare, le East Indian shipps, 4.
MR. [MAURICE] ABBOT. 600 men, good mariners, good soldiers.
SIR EDWARD COKE bringes the reporte of the Lord of Canterbury for the Lord of Buckingham. Le matter lead him to it; not worthy of blame but worthy of thanks and honour. His Majestie not to beleeve such false informacons, nor have his ear to open to heare. Without asperitie or sharpenes of words, and that the Lord Keeper, with bothe howses, to present this to the Kinge.
In the afternoone, a committee of the whole Howse
Sir Dudley Digges. The howse of Austria greate; in 300 yeares from Earl of Switzerland.
Doctor [Barnaby] Gooch. [Blank]
[p. 162] Sir Edward Coke. Advise not opinion. 2 H. 5, 1414, at the Counsell of Constance, the Kinge of Englande had place of the Kinge of Spaine. Articles entre Kinge Philip et Queene Marie. Null Spaniarde office or spirituall macion, null pencion. Le government in Queene Marie et Kinge Philip unassistant. 25 E. 3 un nominative waye. 2 Mar. 4 [sic]. Goe to the conference tomorrowe.
Mr. [Christopher] Brooke.
- 1. Discouragement al United Provinces; Valtoline est gained.
- 2. Discourage our friendes, the Hollanders.
- 3. There [sic] shippinge turned againste us.
- 4. Personall indignitie, disgrace.
Sir Edward Wardour. Charles the 5th made Emperor by Kinge [Henry] 8.
Sir Robert Phelips. Opinion este deliver for breaking the mache and treatie of the Palatinate.
Sir George Chudleigh. [Blank]
Sir Edwin Sandys in le chaire. Sur question, null farther treatie of a mache or Palatinate.
[p. 163] Il fait reporte de tout al Huise le Speaker in le chaire, et moove pur subcommittee de sett downe reasons.
Sur question, come devant, that this Howse gyves his Majestie advyse that it is not fitte to holde further treatie with the Kinge of Spaine either for the mache or Palatinate but to breake it off, and so to informe at the conference with the Lordes.
Sur question, un committee de 12 de setter downe reasons de fortifier le conference ove les seignours. Presentlye in the committee chamber, et faire reporte tomorrow, nine o'clocke.
IV. DIARY OF JOHN HOLLES, BL, HARL. MS 6,383
Monday, 1st of March
An act for making the principality of Wales as free as is England, to be governed by the same law, which they had until lost in a rebellion. This was committed.
SIR BENJAMIN RUDYARD. We have a hard after-game to play to recover the Palatinate. The Prince made a posting journey into Spain, wherein he was deluded; we must not be slow-paced to see him righted. [f. 87] How many daughters the King of Spain has, so many ways to deceive his neighbours. By this treaty, we have lost the Palatinate, our part of religion abroad, and a great bulk of papists grown at home and, as it were, knotted in our bowels. Let us not be taken in a net, but make good the breach of the match with a war as the more English way. He moved to break the treaties with Spain, to take away jealousies from our friends abroad; to reunite with the German princes; to assist the Low Countries really, where every younger brother that has but Â£20 in his purse, and his arms, is stocked for a profession; to send a supply to secure Ireland; to send out ships at sea to discover.
SIR ROBERT PHELIPS said [Sir Benjamin] Rudyard had put us into so good a way that who went out of the way should walk in a circle to return to the point again. To talk of the match without the Palatinate is to beat the air and lose one's time. The treaty of this match has been the King of Spain's best army and has got him more than Charles the 5th, with all his armies, or Philip the Second with his Jesuits. We have lost our friends abroad, almost ourselves at home, nay more than that, almost God Almighty, and we have lost our reputation, which is the main pillar of all states. Rome and Spain are twins, they laugh, they weep together, they subsist one by another. He moved to have conference with the Lords.
SIR FRANCIS SEYMOUR moves to send home the Spanish ambassador and to renew the laws against the papists, to banish the Jesuits.
It is more time to do than speak.
MR. [JOHN] PYM. To answer negatively to both treaties of match and Palatinate, to desire conference with the Lords.
SERJEANT [SIR ROBERT] HITCHAM. If Gondomar were present, he would put himself rather upon God than the country.
Serjeant [Sir Ranulphe] Crewe and the Attorney [General] came from the Lords to desire a committee of the Lower House to join with them for clearing Buckingham.
The House returned them thanks for their good correspondence, and that they would send them more particular messengers of their own to know time, place and number.
The report of the committee that Buckingham deserved honour in this action, and thanks [f. 87v] of the House and kingdom, and to desire the King to stop his ears from such reports that disturb the peace of the kingdom.
The Chief Baron, Master of the Rolls and the Attorney [General] came of a 2nd message, that in the great business wherein the King had desired the advice of the House, the Lords desired a committee of both the whole Houses to meet at a conference, the 2nd of March, in the hall at Whitehall at 2 in the afternoon.
SIR ROBERT PHELIPS moved the answer to this message should be conditional, that we should confer unless we sent to the contrary.
MR. [EDWARD] ALFORD. That there should be heads agreed on to consult about, for the Lords were prepared, the House not. Besides, this was a business of the greatest weight that ever came in Parliament.
And the Lords had sit one day more than we had, because of our communion, and we were a greater body by 300, therefore moved slower.
So it was ordered, we would confer if we could be ready; if not, send them word tomorrow morning.
SECRETARY CALVERT delivered a message from the King that for the 2 petitions already in the House against the Lord Keeper, he wa[s] ready to make answer; but the King would have no more received unless they did accuse him of corruption, for a man in his place could not remember all the decrees had passed through his hands.
This message was not received.
SIR JOHN STRANGWAYS. The trained forces of this kingdom were 160,000.
SIR DUDLEY DIGGES would have the House go by reason, not will, and express their reasons for breaking the match. It is no one man's wisdom can direct this House; some ar[e] good in foreign business, some for home, some in law, some in war, etc. The House had need of all.
SIR SIMEON STEWARD. Ibi recte consuliture, ubi propositio controvertitur. The Spaniard has practised to set all Christendom on fire, that by the light thereof they might see the clearer to their own ambitious designs.
SIR EDWIN SANDYS. Not his use to repeat what was said before, being an expense of time. He moved to keep ourselves within the limits of the King's proposition, whether fit the treaty of the match should continue or no, and not to go on with war but to give our reasons why we break it, no opinion being of worth without reason.
Good motions often fall to ground if not seconded.
The order of the House in committees elected out of both Houses for our House to double the number of the Upper House.
SIR EDWARD SEYMOUR moved to have answer given to the Secretary's message about the Lord Keeper, saying it trenched into the liberty of the House to have complaints stopped against any court of justice, therefore moved to have a committee [f. 88] consider of an answer.
SIR PETER HEYMAN moved an order should be entered the Clerk should set down no man's name to his motion.
And so it was ordered.
There was a motion made 4 of the House should view the Clerk's book every Saturday.
In the Queen's time, no man's name was set down to his motion.
MR. [JOHN] PYM opposes it. He would innovate nothing without good reason, and some had received benefit by the Clerk's book.
It was ordered the committee of privileges should consider of this and examine former precedents in what manner the Clerk should take notes of men's speeches.
SIR EDWARD SEYMOUR said 5 ships were ready to go to the East Indies, 1,000 mariners in them, 800 muskets and 1,600 barrels of gunpowder, etc. Therefore moved they should be stayed, and not to disarm ourselves now we were preparing for war. The west country had lost in 2 years 100 ships besides 1,500 mariners of ours that are now prisoners with the Turk.
[Afternoon,] Tuesday [sic], 2nd [sic] of March, [committee of the Whole House]
Sir Edward Coke. The King does not ask our opinion only but our advice, that is ad visum, to show what grounds and demonstrations we have for our counsel. At the Council of Constance 400 years ago, the King of England had the precedence given him before the King of Spain. In the articles between Queen Mary and King Philip, no Spaniard might bear any office in England. In 1 H. the 5 was the first time that ad defensionem ecclesiae Anglicanae was used in the writ of summons to Parliament.
Mr. [Christopher] Brooke. Reasons why the treaty of match should break off: the discomfort of the Protestant Churches abroad and the united princes; the discomfort of our friends, the Hollanders, who are the bulwarks of Christendom, and like an army of frogs lie under water; the Hollanders being lost, we are next; the personal disgrace the Prince has suffered in Spain; the laws of religion at home, which would be much weakened, for our papists were not as the papists in France, Italy, etc., for our papists are all Spanish papists.
Sir Edward Wardour showed that Charles the 5th did thus juggle with Henry the 8th for his daughter, whom he was contracted to, and then got a dispensation for it.
Sir Thomas Jermyn. The Spaniards will think it fault enough in us that we will be no longer abused; therefore, let us look to ourselves. Let both treaties be dissolved together. Advice is an opinion fortified with reasons.
[f. 88v] A committee of 12 chosen for fortifying their advice of breaking both treaties, and liberty given to any other to put in their reasons.
At the [select] committee
Sir Dudley Digges. No hope of good by continuing, much by breaking of the treaty, as the coming in of Brandenburg, Saxe and other German princes.
Secretary Calvert. One clause in the King of Spain's letter that may make the treaty perpetual, and that he would not take off his hand of mediation from the Palatinate, and that the Palsgrave's son should marry the Emperor's daughter.
Sir Nathaniel Rich. The treaty is against religion. They asked a connivance, expounded in Spain a toleration, which they said would hazard a rebellion.
Sir Edwin Sandys. All kingdoms alter in the course of government, except Spain, which still goes on the same way, be their king wise or simple, young or old, which is the cause of the greatness of that state; besides, the firm union between the Emperor and him, as appeared by Olivares's speech, and then with the Pope, for one may find the council of Spain in the court of Rome and the court of Rome in the council of Spain. Yet he thought the last Philip had so loved the King of England's person as he would have dispensed with those maxims of state, but by his last will it appeared all juggling. About the time of Queen Elizabeth's death, there was some 400 English priests, 60 Jesuits and but 7 monasteries for the English beyond the seas; but now above 1,064 English priests and 25 English monasteries beyond seas. The Jesuits' doctrine, one pope, one king. In other nations, there be French papists and Italian papists, but here none but Spanish papists.
Sir Edward Coke's reason against the treaty, which were well liked by all the committee: the King, by this treaty, has been deluded, his children disinherited, our confederates abroad disheartened, the dangerous papists at home encouraged and increased. Under pretext of this treaty in general terms, the King deluded, our confederates, the Low Countries, harmed, and thereby this kingdom endangered.
V. DIARY OF SIR THOMAS JERVOISE, HAMPSHIRE RECORD OFFICE, 44M69/F4/20/1
Monday, 1st of March
Ordered, that two shall go from the House to give the preacher thanks and to desire him to put his sermon into print.
SIR BENJAMIN RUDYARD. Motion about the match of Spain. He has as many daughters as he has neighbours to deceive. We have lost the Palatinate and endanger our religion abroad. To proceed further in the treaty is to be further abused. If we break the match, we must think of a war. The Low Countryme[n] are not as they were by reason of the leagues broken and armies dissolved. The policy of the Spaniard to promise the restor[ation of] the Palatinate to hold a treaty to gain his own designs. To entreat the Lords.
[p. 20] SIR GEORGE MORE. [Blank]
SIR ROBERT PHELIPS. To endeavour to prepare for a war, which is the true course of Englishmen. The cause that brought the Prince into Spain. The last Prince [of Wales] that was in Spain brought home a royal victory. This Prince brought home the victory of religion. The marriage where we see the abuses and delays we ought not. While this match have been in treaty, the house of Austria has got more than ever any of them did with war in so short a time. Prays that the loss of the Palatinate may not be laid to our charge. [p. 21] Spain got it, the arms of Spain defends it, the arms of Spain possesses it. The Spanish never intended to deliver it; it were not wisdom in them to do it. To confer with the Lords in this business and hear what their opinions be; if they differ from us, then we to prepare ourselves to satisfy them.
SIR MILES FLEETWOOD. That as the going of the Prince into Spain was the taking away of all our lives, so his return was a reviving of us again, as if the breath of life had been breathed into us again. For the passage of Spain, see the letters whereby it appeared they never intended anything but deceit. Since the treaty has produced no better effect, therefore not to hold that treaty longer, [p. 22] being against the honour of the King, the law of God and against the good and peace of this kingdom. The honour of the King is that he is the defender of the faith. The conclusion: that we may petition the King not to treat no further with Spain.
SIR FRANCIS SEYMOUR. As we are one body, so with our hearts. Let us give his Majesty that counsel as may be for the good of religion and good of this kingdom. By reason of the King of Spain's agents have many hundreds of these people have been drawn from the true religion. The match can be no good to this king[dom] for the alliance. The[y] hold us heretics, and the portion not according to promise. [p. 23] He desires that there may be a period to this business and that the ambassador of Spain may be sent home, and for the Palatinate, not to speak more but to make a diversive war.
SIR JOHN ELIOT. War must be the thing that must repair us. To advise the King to set out his own fleet to secure us at home, the charge to be upon the papists.
MR. [JOHN] PYM. That it is not fit for the King to go further in the treaty of the match.
A message from the Lords, by Sir Ranulphe Crewe and Mr. Attorney [General], that whereas upon Friday last they sent to this House to acquaint them of the complaint of the Spanish ambassador against my Lord of Buckingham, [p. 24] that whereas the Lords had in by one vote cleared him and had appointed a committee to the purpose, they desire that for as much that the pretend[ed] offence was before both Houses, that both Houses should join to go to the King and clear him.
The answer to the Lords: that we give thanks for their Lordships' correspondency and will send messenger to their Lordships this forenoon.
The report of the committee of my Lord of Buckingham by MR. SOLICITOR. It was, upon debate by the voices at the committee, that we should go singly by the Speaker to deliver these instructions: that we did clear the Duke for any imputation of the King of Spain but did truly deliver the truth of the business.
SIR ROBERT PHELIPS. To send to the Lords to propose their number, and the time and place to confer, touching the [p. 25] manner of going to the King.
A second message from the Lords, brought by the Master of the Rolls, the Chief Baron and Mr. Attorney [General]. The substance of this message is that for the dispatch of this great business, that we should meet with the Lords tomorrow at Whitehall at a conference.
Upon the question, it is ordered that the messenger from the Lords shall receive this answer: that if with convenience they may, they will meet the Lords at the time and place desired or otherwise tomorrow send their Lordships word to the contrary.
MR. SECRETARY [CALVERT]. A message from the King that if there be any more complaints come in against the Lord Keeper, that they will be sparing to accept of any except they do touch corruption.
[p. 26] SIR JOHN STRANGWAYS. That all the papists may be confined to some men of integrity and so first secure kingdom at home by fortifying these places in most danger.
Motion of SIR DUDLEY DIGGES that we should meet at a committee this afternoon to debate the great business of Spain.
Ambassadors are the Spaniards' own game, as a [sic] the old Italian proverb is.
SIR ROBERT PHELIPS. His report of the answer from the Lords touching the business of my Lord of Buckingham, that there should be 12 of the Lords at the Painted Chamber; and there went 24 of the Lower House to give them meeting.
SIR EDWARD COKE reports. He says that my Lord Canterbury told him that the Lords did clear my Lord of Buckingham, saying the matter [sic] in the relation of the business was no other than the matter led him to.
[p. 27] In the afternoon at the committee [of the Whole House]
Sir Dudley Digges. The times is [sic] altered since the last Parliament. The house of Austria within this 300 years, from a poor earldom, is now the greatest house in the world. The greatest growing of Austria was the marriage of Maximilian.
Doctor [Barnaby] Gooch says the Prince Elector has a just cause to take war against Spain. So for us to take this way ought to be very well considered where it be a just war.
Sir Robert Killigrew moved that the treaty is first to be determined for the moving before the point for war be spoken.
Sir Edward Coke. The King asked our advice, not our opinion. If King Philip should have children by Queen Mary, they not to go into Spain, nor no Spaniard to have the education of any children.
[p. 28] Mr. [Christopher] Brooke. 4 reasons why the treaty of the marriage with Spain should be laid. He has got the Valtelline, he has got a full Catholic League, and if we should not break this league we shall dishearten all the reformed churches. If we should treat further of this match lest the Hollanders, our true friends, should be swallowed up. 4. ag[ainst] our Prince, have suffered a great deal of personal abuse by being delayed and consequently denied.
Sir Edward Wardour. The stories, the one to parallel the match.
Sir Robert Phelips. That it is not fit that the King should hold any longer treaty with the match with Spain.
A committee appointed to draw out some material things to meet the Lords, and that the conference should be free to speak and expostulate at the conference with the Lordships.
[p. 29] At the committee, by the question, it is ordered that we shall advise the King to break off both the treaties with the King of Spain.
Reported to the House Tuesday.
It is ordered by the House that we shall give the King our advice to break off the treaty with Spain, both for the marriage and the Palatinate.
Ordered, that a selected committee of 12 shall be appointed to set down reasons to the Lords to fortify our opinions against the match of Spain.
VI. DIARY OF JOHN LOWTHER, CUMBRIA ARCHIVE CENTRE, CARLISLE, DLONS/L/2/1
[1 March 1624]
The bill for general issue upon intrusion and possession until trial, so upon scire facias. The first reading.
SIR BENJAMIN RUDYARD move[d] to break the match and treaty for Palatinate, to assist the Low Countries to divert the war, to strengthen Ireland and our own ports, and send out ships for discovery and strength.
SIR ROBERT PHELIPS concur et signify how the last Prince of Wales that was in Spain established a king there and returned victor. This delivered us that redressed the subjects' grievances by favourites, and this Prince, he is confident, will do like. That this treaty has been Spain's best army, and we lost our friends, almost ourselves, and the remedy â that she born under an unfortunate planet when 3 kings had not power or will to defend her. That the way for redress is not to Palatinate [sic]. They cannot want it, and Pope and Spain two twins, and concur together.
SIR GEORGE MORE, SIR MILES FLEETWOOD. Long to no purpose. Premeditation. Hem.
[f. 16v] SIR JOHN ELIOT concurs, and offer to take supply of the papists to set out a navy to secure ourselves.
SIR ROBERT HITCHAM. If Gondomar here, Gondomar would rather put himself of God than the country.
The message from the King for the Lord Keeper, against whom 2 petitions, not to receive more but for corruption, respited to advise and regulate him for our liberties lands and goods.
The concurrence of the Houses in giving honour and thanks to the Duke [of Buckingham], for that the matter led him so to speak without asperity and sharpness of words.
(Que ([illegible]) since hated for this, and made in the Parliament at Oxford, and after at Westminster, the odiousest man living. Note the inconstancy.)
A committee of the whole House, in the afternoon, to prepare a conference with the Lords and the reasons of our breach of the match, and why not to attempt the Palatinate, and to proceed no further than the proposition of Sir Edwin Sandys's motion.
[f. 17] [Afternoon,] committee [of the Whole] House
Austria, in 300 years, from an earldom to aim at all Christendom. Rudolf Emperor when Bohemia refused, Maximilian got 17 provinces. Fears and jealousies among us else would have been otherwise broken to us.
Dr. [Barnaby] Gooch. Que Prince Palatine ad cause de guerre son friends nil, ides desire a just ground of the war. Hem.
Sir Edward Cooke. De estate le question que est le advice et de prepare reasons pour le conference que est advise ney opinion and those reasons to be prepared for the Lords. 1614 [sic] Constance Council give unto England precedence of Spain. Articles of the treaty between King Philip and Queen Mary prohibit Spanish power, vide that the Parliament writ imports the defence of the King state and Church.
[Mr. Christopher] Brooke. Reasons against the match, viz.:
- 1. Discomfort all Reformed churches.
- 2. Our friends Hollanders, the frogs under water.
- 3. Our danger if Holland be overthrown and their ships set against us.
- 4. Le Prince has endured personal disgrace by delay, by delusion.
[f. 17v] Nullo contradicente all advise a breach of both the treaties and, besides, all reasons alleged; a subcommittee to satisfy.
Then the Speaker to the chair, and Sir Edwin Sandys, late in the chair, did report the resolution and put it to the question, and resolved as before.
VII. DIARY OF SIR NATHANIEL RICH, BL, ADD. MS 46,191
Monday, 1 March 1623
SIR ARTHUR INGRAM moves to thank the preacher and desire him to print it.
Bill of grace concerning Wales to repeal 24 H. 8 in that branch which gives the King power to make laws, etc.
Bill to reform jeofails. First read.
Bill to relieve patentees in case of forfeiture for non-payment of their rents. First read.
Bill of grace to plead the general issue upon information of intrusion, so that the subject may keep his possession.
SIR BENJAMIN RUDYARD. We are bound to God for our meeting in this place and to acknowledge his Majesty's favour. Consideration of all Christendom as now it stands in reference to this kingdom. Since the Prince made a posting journey to discover, let us not be slow in our remedy. The King of Spain, so many daughters he has, so many ways to deceive his neighbours. The King took his oath with reservation salus reipublicae. Since this treaty of the marriage, we have lost the Palatinate and most part of our friends abroad, bred a mass of ill-affected in religion at home. We must save religion if we will be saved by it. They have declared they never meant to match. The Spanish councils constant.
If we break, we must prepare for a war, which is the most manly and English way. Our whole party of the religion in Germany and France scattered and weakened; the Low Countries low; Mansfeld and Brunswick disbanded; and a faction of religion of Arminians in the Low Countries, which is our bulwark. For the Palatinate, we hear the King of Spain's answer suitable to his other proceedings. They could not make a better answer than say they would restore, though they never meant it.
To advise his Majesty to break off both treaties and to join with the Lords to entreat his Majesty to declare them both broken. That he would reunite his confederates, secure Ireland, set out his navy, assist the Low Countries really; and that when [f. 30] he means to make war for the Palatinate, he would do it by diversion that so younger brothers might be set on work.
SIR GEORGE MORE. Matter of great weight as ever; therefore, not to go too fast. Therefore, to handle but one matter at once viz. the marriage, first, because the Prince moved that principally. Must climb up to the providence of God, who has thus, contrary to reason, brought things about. Strange that so a wise a king should be entertained so long with a match never intended. Hagar in the wilderness of Beersheba. Recounts the danger of the Prince's journey and the preservation of his person, and of his, in true religion. No wisdom understands counsel against the Lord, so it is God's will that this should be no further.
SIR ROBERT PHELIPS. We have had so ill success in the talking way; to recover what we have lost by treaties by an English way. Concurs with Sir Benjamin Rudyard.
Not to trouble the House with repetition, but thinks the relation of the Duke to be a sufficient inducement to ground our counsels. The Prince's going, managing, returning. The last Prince of Wales that went into [Spain] brought home victory; so this brought safety and security. He triumphed in the captivity of a French king, this in saving our kingdom. For the marriage, if the King should proceed and if so whether like to succeed. To continue the treaty to procure ourselves to be abused.
In general, this match unfit. This treaty of match has been the best army the King of Spain ever had. Charles the 5th, with all his arms, nor Philip the 2nd, with his arms. We have lost ourselves, friends and almost God almighty. [f. 29v] Thus the subject abused, our kingdom and friends wronged.
For the Palatinate, hardly to be named but with sighs and sobs. Loss there of the country, our friends, misery of the King's children. The Queen of Bohemia unfortunate. Prays God that this sin be not laid to our charge. It has routed all our party in Germany. More Protestant blood spilt thereby. Caused us to be jealoused by our friends, staggered us at home. Spain first possessed it and defends and keep it. Spain the great wheel that sets all the less a work. Let us go to him from whom we receive our wounds. They could not intend it in regard of the necessary use the Pope and Spain has to keep that in the papist part. You shall find the councils of each in each other's care. No hope to get it by a treaty, nor by sending to it but divert it; to look out our enemy and that is the King of Spain.
Moves, in the cause, we have general interest and in the relation; to expect whether they desire to confer and in the meantime to prepare ourselves to consent with them if their opinions be with us.
SIR MILES FLEETWOOD. This the day of joy and rejoicing to this kingdom that we come now to speak of this business. This Parliament like Mount Pisgah, the mount of blessing where Balaam said he could not cure the people God had blessed. David [and] Asa called his people and enacted law that all should serve the true God. The Prince's return like Noah's dove that brought news of the floods abated, etc.
Recounts the persons by whom we have suffered. The King of Spain in pretending a marriage but never intended it, as appears by the King of Spain's letter to Olivares. Recounts the noble carriage of the Prince and the Duke. [f. 29] Desires that the King would [blank], first, because against religion; secondly, against the honour of our state; third, against the peace of our state.
For the first, religion is like the ark of God that blessed, like the rod in Moses's hand when Aaron on Hor held it up. Religion: remember 88 and the Gunpowder Treason; the incompatible endeavour of the Catholic League to maintain their religion. No toleration among the Spanish of religion without rebellion.
Secondly, against the honour of the King and kingdom in 2 particulars. The King has been the head of the Protestant Union.
Thirdly, against the safety of the kingdom; what peace with those that are enemies of our God, for the priests, etc. labour to pervert wives from husbands, children from fathers, etc.
To petition that the King would proceed in no further treaty.
SIR FRANCIS SEYMOUR. As we are one body, so with one heart and affection give the King that advice as may stand with advancement of religion. Since this treaty the Spanish ambassadors haunted, many 100 of the subjects perverted. They have not left unattempted the persons of the Duke and Prince. Spanish jugglers by them discovered. The King dishonoured while his children, during this treaty, turned out of all their possessions. And we ever discover them to pretend a match and not intend it. Thirdly, this match no ways beneficial to this kingdom. If alliance, then they say fides non secuanda cum heretiae, neither think us worthy of burial. If we regard the portion, it is turned into a pension and a few jewels, which, suitable to their other proceedings, may be counterfeit. [f. 28v] Therefore, moves to put a period to the treaty of this and of the Palatinate, but puts the care hereof to his loving subjects, and we shall make them restore it or change for a better. And to put in execution the laws against recusants, etc.
SIR JOHN ELIOT. Fitter to do than speak. Written in the faces of all that are here that the treaties now afoot to be dissolved. It is war that must amend all, in which one thing considerable for defence of ourselves: because of the embargo, a navy prepared; therefore to provide our fleet. It were not hard to set out the navy by those that deserve no favour at our hands, by the forfeitures of the papists.
MR. [JOHN] PYM. No man's reason can add to the evidence of this business, nor no persuasion. That it is not fit to proceed in either.
SIR ROBERT HITCHAM. In the case of a private person, if he were deceived twice or thrice, it were an imputation to his judgement to be more deceived; much more when we see the King thus abused. If Gondomar were present, he would neither put himself upon God or his country. Therefore, the safest course to have judgement upon a nihil dicit. Moves to have no question of a thing questionless that it is unfit to have these treaties proceeded in.
A message from the Lords intimating that whereas upon Friday last, they had cleared the Duke of Buckingham in his narrative of the great business, they did not mean to sever themselves from this House but if we pleased to join with them in signifying this clearing to the King.
Answer: we thank their Lordships for their good correspondency and will return them forthwith answer by messengers of our own.
Hereupon, MR. SOLICITOR called to report and so did.
[f. 27v] SIR JAMES PERROT (after the message read). He excepts against the word "reflecting", which may perhaps include the ministers of the King of Spain.
We send a message to the Lords to thank them for their good correspondency in this business. We have taken the same course they did to clear the Duke and for signification of our proceeding to the King, we are willing to confer with their Lordships when they please to nominate number, time and place. They answer presently.
Another message, that tomorrow at 2 o'clock in the hall at Whitehall for a conference with both Houses about the great business.
SIR EDWARD CECIL. The King of Spain is king of the Catholic League, and was it ever heard that the house of Austria married with an heretic? The papists fail of the States and we of the King of Spain.
This afternoon, 1 March, the House sat and the Speaker, out of his chair, to put the House into form of a committee [of the Whole House]
Sir Edwin Sandys in the chair.
Sir Dudley Digges. The delay of the treaty last time thought dangerous; much more now. The house of Austria grown stronger and ourselves and friends weaker. Very necessary to consider of the causes of the growth of Austria. Within 300 years, grown from a poor earldom to this greatness and within 100 years to this greatness that now it is. The Earl of Habsburg got himself to be chosen Emperor: his name Rudolphus. When Maximilian of Austria got by a marriage the 17 provinces whereof seven are now the Low Countries, of which we may make use, Naples and Sicily then got by them. Unless the match be broke, what friends will join with us? And there are fears and jealousies among ourselves.
Dr. [Barnaby] Gooch. 2 branches of this treaty: marriage, Palatinate. But we cannot deliver an opinion of either unless we consider the consequence of both. If we break off, we must presently enter into a war. A pleasing speech but when we consider the consequence of war, the expense of money, effusion of blood, etc., but in regard of a greater mischief we must do it, but if we do enter into a war, let it be just. Then who is our enemy? To recover the Palatinate impossible. For the justice of this war, it must be upon some near [f. 26v] neighbour. His army won the Palatinate and holds it. Must therefore England have war with him? He aids but his friends. Caesar had the quarrel against us that we assisted his enemies. The Prince Elector has a just quarrel against Spain. What is this to England? This has not suffered it. Therefore, before we enter into a war, let us see upon what grounds. Therefore asks with what justice we have [to] enter into this war. He holds opinion that we may have a just war.
His second question: if we must have a war, what is our provision in England? Are we able to maintain a fight for one day? If we have not this provision, in what case we are to meet with a mighty and well-furnished prince? But if we be not able now, we shall be much more unable next year.
Sir Robert Killigrew knows his own disability but would reduce the matter to the question whether we shall break the treaties.
Sir Edward Cecil. We have reason to break because they are like to come to nothing. Desires that our declaration last Parliament may be read.
Sir William Strode. To hold to the match, which, though the King of Spain would offer, yet not fit for us to entertain it. We should be ready with our lives, etc. to make it good.
Sir Edward Coke. To preface, commonplace or repeat is against the order of Parliament. We are to prepare ourselves for a conference with the Lords. What they will propound, we know not. The King asks not our opinion but advice. This is to show upon what grounds we give our advice. Therefore, to show the causes that move us to desire the breaking of the match. For the breaking, we have a just occasion. The King of Spain a potent and opulent king, but England not to be disabled so as we seem either to fear him or disable to resist him. Anno 1414 in the anno 2 of H. 5 at the Council of Constance, the King of England had precedence given him of the King of Spain. A Parliament concerning Spain most material. A precedent excepting King Philip (then prince) when he was to marry with Queen Mary, though religion then all one. In print the articles of those treaties.
[f. 25v] 1. That no Spaniard should have a benefice, so no junta of divines.
Secondly, no pension; might they not come then and shall they come now?
Thirdly, they should have no office whatsoever.
Fourthly, no land, no rent, etc. Thus they were disabled by act of Parliament. Nay, the government should be in Queen Mary and her Council, and King Philip but an assistant. Hereon a question: what if one should kill him? It was 25 E. 3 no treason until a special act of Parliament for it.
Fifthly, he should change no law.
6. No Spaniard should offer disgrace to any Englishman they knew and the height of their mind, such as could not be taken but by an astrolabe.
7. The children should be nursed by English and in England.
Leaves the application to ourselves.
Moves not yet to treat yet of war, but of the reasons why we shall advise the King to break this treaty. Reason out of the writ of Parliament: Nos et stationi et defensioni Regni ure angliae et ecclesiae. Arduous imports difficulty, urgent presses present resolution. This concerns the King in a high degree; his royal issue, which are parts of himself, filius pars patris, so treason against the Prince is treason. It is Crimen lesae majesty. This concerns the state of England, the defence of England. If we fall out with one, we must make friends with another. It concerns Ecclesiam Anglicanum. This, some say, came into the writ in H. 8 time, but this false for it was long before. For when Wycliffe wrote 1 H. 5, this then came into the writ and so has continued ever since.
So our advice is, because it is against all that is set down in the writ of Parliament. Moves for us to meet and declare our reasons to break off both these treaties.
[f. 24v] Mr. [Christopher] Brooke. The state of the question certain. 4 reasons why to lay aside these treaties.
- 1. If we proceed in the match, it will be discomfort to all reformed churches and the Princes of the Union, for the Spaniard has got the Valtelline so that his passing is easy into Germany. He has got the Palatinate. The advantage is that by this, they have way to oppress all the Protestant princes that have relied upon us.
- 2. We shall disconsolate our friends, the Hollanders, who have been the bulwark of Christendom. Apothegm of Philip of Macedon: who can resist an ass laden with gold? When this gold of the West Indies came in, what hindered that they should not get all? God found out a way by raising up the Hollanders. What is our case, next to be devoured?
- 4. Our excellent Prince has suffered a great deal of personal disgrace; he was made cheap. God has made the way open to us that he came without her. He has been so ill-used there; let the Prince/
- 5. Religion that is Sparta nru quam tueri debend; nobody loves Spanish papists but English papists.
Sir Edward Wardour adds 2 stories to parallel this. To parallel the match: Charles the 5th by assistance of H. 8 got the Empire, in recompense whereof he promised to marry Queen Mary and so duly entered into contract with H. 8 to divide France between them; swore this at the altar in Paul's. H. 8 sent an army accordingly, [f. 23v] after he got a dispensation, and sent a renunciation of the match and so avoided it and stirred up the Earl of Desmond to rebel in Ireland.
Another precedent: in H. 8's time, the Spaniard got the kingdom of Navarre when he pretended to go through it. This sticks so in his teeth that he bequeaths this in his last will.
Sir Robert Phelips. That we give advice for breach of the treaties. Then prepare for a conference with the Lords and to prepare our reasons.
Sir G[eorge] Chudleigh. 2 [sic] reasons to break these treaties.
- 1. The Spanish council intends not the match, ergo, not to be proceeded.
- 2. The Palatinate but a condition of the match, ergo, if they intend not the match, they intend not the condition.
- 3. The Bishop of Segovia says you cannot admit a toleration without a rebellion. They say that connivancy is as good as a toleration and nothing else will content them, ergo, unless we would have a rebellion, by their own argument, we must not have a match that must be clogged with a connivancy.
Mention made of the high birth of that lady. This taken off; it is dishonourable to match with so high a birth and so mean a portion. She is not virtuous.
Sir Robert Harley. The King of Spain aims at a monarchy. Let not us help him to it. This another reason.
Mr. [Richard] Hutton. While the treaties last, we nourish the wolf in our bosom. But he would give not advice concerning the match.
Sir Thomas Jermyn. We have been like Samson all this while we have been in this treaty, grinding a grist for our enemies. Moves that we may advise the King to break both treaties. We have prayed to God against this the 7 years; we have gone away with tears that the King would not hear [f. 22v] us in it. Shall we now that we have opportunity to break it, shall we look back? Let no man think the Spaniards will rest, for they will think it a great crime that we will be no longer abused.
Sir John Strangways. Out of my Lord of Bristol's letter that the Palatinate was not to be annexed to the marriage.
Resolved, upon question, that the House thinks it fit that the King proceed no further in either of these treaties but clearly to discharge and dissolve them.
2nd question: that there should be a select committee to consider of the reasons to fortify this resolution.
Then the Speaker goes into the chair and Sir Edwin Sandys reports these 2 resolutions.
VIII. ANONYMOUS DIARY, KENNETH SPENCER RESEARCH LIBRARY, UNIVERSITY OF KANSAS, MS E237
1 March 1623
After some bills read, the Lords sent a message to us that they had made a committee of their whole House, and desired we would do so too and give them a meeting for a conference in the hall in Whitehall on the 2nd of March at 2 of the clock in the afternoon, if it stood with our conveniency.
We returned the Lords thanks for their good correspondency and would send them an answer, by messengers of our own, what hour we could appoint for meeting.
Then was the great business for the marriage and Palatinate discoursed on, and was resolved, by the question, that our advice was not to hold on the treaty any longer, either for the marriage or Palatinate, but absolutely to break it off, for that we saw it was to the prejudice of God's true religion, not safe for the King's state and honour, and to the great hurt of his allies abroad.
A committee was chosen to prepare some reasons if the Lords should enter into any such business when both Houses met, and appointed a committee of the whole House to be in the afternoon.
IX. DIARY OF EDWARD NICHOLAS, TNA, SP 14/166
Monday, 10 Martii 1623
An act for the naturalizing of David Stanniere of London, Dutchman.
An act for the naturalizing of Jacques le Best of London, Dutchman.
SIR ARTHUR INGRAM would have 3 of this House give Dr. [Isaac] Bargrave thanks for his pains, and desire that he would enlarge himself therein and put it in print.
[f. 32] It is ordered that 3 or 4 who are named shall give Dr. Bargrave thanks for his sermons, and that he will enlarge himself therein and put it in print.
An act to repeal a branch of an act made in 34 H. 8 concerning certain ordinance of principality of Wales. r. p.
An act for further reformation of jeofails. 1. L. r. p.
An act for the relief of patentees, tenants or lessees of crown land or Duchy land in cases of forfeiture for non-payment of rents or other duties. Bill of grace, 1. L.
This passed the last meeting in Parliament House. r. p.
An act to admit the subject to plead the general issue to an information of intrusion brought on the behalf of his Majesty and to retain possession until trial. By this, the defendant shall plead the general issue upon information of intrusion, if the defendant has been in possession 20 years, and not be put out of his possession until trial. 2. L. r. p.
SIR BENJAMIN RUDYARD. We are bound to God to bless him that we are met here again in this place, and we are unworthy of it if we do not use it a [sic] blessing, and that the King has trusted us with so great a matter as the match of Spain and the treaty of the Palatinate. [f. 32v] It is true that we have a hard after-game to play concerning the match and the Palatinate, that the King has assured it is res integra, and that he never took the oath but for salus republicae. For the marriage, it is true that as many daughters as the King of Spain has, so many ways has he to deceive his neighbours. [Blank] That his Majesty had good ends in the match if he had met with as good men as himself. [Blank] If we proceed any further in the treaty, we shall be further abused, and if we go on, we shall be caught in a net and there is no greater shame than that. If we break the match, we must make good the breach and resolve on a war, or at least provide as if we had a war. [Blank]
[f. 33] That the Low Countries is now like to be lost town by town, as it was gotten. If the Low Countries be lost, we shall be more than in danger. [Blank] His opinion is that we should humbly advise his Majesty to break off both the treaties, and to desire the Lords to join with us in our humble advice. And that his Majesty will presently declare them both broken, to provide to strengthen Ireland, fortify his out ports, send out a navy. Would not have us go to war in the Palatinate to recover it, but resolve on a divertive war near at hand. That every younger brother may take his stock with him to plant himself in a new fortune there, and in this the Low Countries will join with us.
SIR ROBERT PHELIPS. We have had so ill success in the talking way already as he would now have us take the ancient English way, to recover what we have lost by the sword. He that shall go out of the way Sir Benjamin Rudyard set down, shall go walk in a maze and must return there again. [f. 33v] The last Prince of Wales that ever was in Spain came laden with victory. That Prince gloried in the triumph of a French king. Let this in the saving of the ruin of a [blank] kingdom.
2 considerations: first, the marriage; second, the Palatinate. First, marriage: whether to advise the King to proceed. If he [sic] should advise him to proceed, whether it would succeed. [Second,] admit that we should have the Palatinate, whether it will be fit for us.
That the treaty of this marriage has been the greatest army that ever King of Spain [had], and the house of Austria has, by this treaty, gotten more glory than ever did Charles the 5, with his great arms, or Philip 2 with all his Jesuits. That we have lost our friends abroad by this treaty, ourselves at home and almost God, which is the greatest loss of all. [f. 34] It lay not in the power, or rather, in the will of 3 great kingdoms to preserve that unfortunate lady. He prays God lay it not to our charge. It has made us a scorn to all. The arms of Spain got the Palatinate and the same arms will, and do, defend. That Spain is that great wheel which sets all the little wheels in Germany going. The house of Austria is too wise to have ever purposed to restore the Palatinate. That Rome and Spain are twins, they laugh and weep together and they support each other. That we must resolve to make a war, and the enemy cannot be thought or to be any other than Spain.
His motion is that we have a conference with the Lords to see how they are opinioned of this business, and if they shall not concur with us therein, that we labour by our reasons to bring them to us, and that [f. 34v] we lose no time herein; and he thinks it will not be long before we have a message from the Lords concerning this business.
SIR MILES FLEETWOOD would have the King give over the treaty of the match for 3 reasons. Because:
- 1. It is against religion.
- 2. It is against the honour of our King and kingdom.
- 3. It is against the good and peace of this kingdom. For in the time of our treaty, they have gotten the Queen of Bohemia, and the Jesuits have sought to pervert our people in their faith to our King and in their religion.
SIR FRANCIS SEYMOUR. Notwithstanding our King's gracious intentions, the ambassadors' houses have swarmed with Jesuits and many noblemen's houses have also abounded with them, so as many hundreds of our religion have been drawn to superstition and idolatry, and yet they hold us heretics and unworthy Christian burial. That the Spaniards have also altered the portion to a pension and a few jewels, which, if answerable to their other proceedings, they may be counterfeited. Would have the ambassadors sent home to tell what service they have done their master. [f. 35] That priests and Jesuits may be banished, and the laws against papists executed.
SIR JOHN ELIOT. That the King called us here to advise of this great business of the treaty of Spain and to have our counsel how to recover his honour therein. Would have the King advised to set forth his own fleet to prevent the King [of] Spain's armada. It is not difficult to set forth his navy. That the papists who, contrary to the laws of this realm, have incurred a praemunire for entertaining of priests, and would have the King deal favourably with them and set such a mulct on the papists as might set forth a navy.
MR. [JOHN] PYM would have us resolve and send our advice that we think his Majesty shall do best to break off the treaties, both of the match and of the restitution of the Palatinate, and would have us send for a conference with the Lords concerning this business to speed our resolution therein.
A message from the Lords signifying that, [f. 35v] whereas their Lordships sent to us concerning the complaint that was made to the King against Buckingham, that their that their [sic] Lordships did not, because the relation of Buckingham was made to both Houses, mean to proceed with this House though they appointed a committee of their own to consider of this business, and if we think good they will, to that purpose, have a conference with us.
Our answer: that this House thanks their Lordships for their correspondency with us, and purpose this morning to send an answer to the message by messengers of our own.
MR. SOLICITOR reports that the committee concerning the wrong done this House and the honour of Buckingham, did think fit to signify by our Speaker (if the Lords did not send for us to join with them) that we have cleared Buckingham from delivering anything to the dishonour of the King of Spain.
It is ordered that we shall send presently a message to the Lords signifying that we have, with one voice, cleared the Duke of Buckingham, and that we desire a conference with their Lordships concerning that business, and that they will appoint the number of a committee for that purpose and time and place.
Message from the Lords: [f. 36] that the Lords desire a conference of both Houses tomorrow in the afternoon, if it stand with our conveniency, in the hall at Whitehall at 2 [o']clock, concerning the great business concerning the match and the Palatinate wherein the King has desired our advice.
SIR EDWARD CECIL would have the papists taken a course withal, for they are as so many spies and it is a great disadvantage to any to maintain spies among them; and our Catholics are not as other Catholics, for ours are so many servants to the King of Spain. And we see that the Prince did speed the business of Spain more in 6 months than our King's ministers did in 7 years.
SIR ROBERT PHELIPS would that we answer the Lords that our care shall be to forward and speed this business and, if we can, we will meet at a conference tomorrow; if not, we will send to their Lordships tomorrow signifying when we can meet with them.
It is ordered, by question, that we send answer to the Lords by their own messengers, that we will give meeting at a conference with their Lordships tomorrow concerning the great business if [with] conveniency we can, and if we cannot be provided so soon, we will then give their Lordships notice when we can be provided.
[f. 36v] SECRETARY CALVERT. A message from the King: that his Majesty takes notice of some informations delivered into the House against the Lord Keeper, to which the Lord Keeper is ready to give answer, and his Majesty would not that we be too apt to receive informations against so great a judge unless there be some matter of bribery or corruption informed against him, wherein his Majesty and the Lord Keeper are confident that his Lordship is blameless, and desires that we should not spare his Lordship.
This is left to rest at this time.
SIR JOHN STRANGWAYS would, since he perceives it to be the sense of the House, to have the match broken. He, for the security of us at home, would have all the great papists should be confined, for the Spanish will, for matter of invasions, rely on the papists here; and therefore he would have this hope taken away from the Spanish. Next, that our ports be fortified and order given for the levying of the strength of this kingdom. That he likes a divertive war and, to encourage the people, would have the bills of grace speeded. He would have a committee appointed for the treaty of this great business.
[f. 37] SIR EDWIN SANDYS. The original of our consultation at this time moves from the King. That our King asked our advice whether it were fit that he should continue the treaty of the match and the Palatinate or no. That he would not have us meddle with any other business, but now to resolve whether the King should continue his treaties with Spain or no. It is an Italian proverb that treaties are the Spaniards' own game, and we have played long with them at their own game. Would that we, having resolved whether the match should be broken or no and then to agree on the reason, that we shall deliver to be cause that we think fit to break off all treaties with Spain.
SIR ROBERT PHELIPS, from the Lords, reports that their Lordships have now appointed 12 of their House to meet instantly with 24 of ours at a conference to agree and advise of the wrong done to this House and the honour of the Duke of Buckingham.
It is ordered that the Speaker shall be here this afternoon and to sit by the chair at a grand committee when we debate of the great business concerning the Palatinate and the marriage.
[f. 37v] MR. [EDWARD] ALFORD. That there are many precedents, that decrees in the Chancery have been here reversed, and would not have us forbear to meddle with complaints against the Lord Keeper for justice done, though there be no bribery charged against him.
It is ordered that, as concerning the message sent us by the King touching complaints against the Lord Keeper, we shall defer the debate of an answer to be sent to his Majesty therein until the great business of the match with Spain be resolved on.
It is ordered that the committee of privileges shall take consideration and examination of precedents by what manner the Clerk of the Parliament has taken notes here in this House, and whether the names of such as speak have use to be written in his book.
SIR EDWARD SEYMOUR. That there are now 5 ships going out of the Thames for the East Indies, and they have 1,000 good mariners and 800 barrels of powder; and now all the mariners of the west country are at Newfoundland and will not be back until Michaelmas. He would have the same stayed and not have us now unfurnish ourselves when we advise or resolve of war.
MR. [MAURICE] ABBOT. That it is true there are, at this present, 4 ships and about 600 mariners prepared to go to the East Indies. That there is intelligence that there are not [f. 38] prepared 8 galleons and 2 carracks of Spain to meet with our shipping that goes to the East Indies, by reason of the last assistance given by us to the Persian at the taking of Hormuz. He thinks it will be for the honour and good of this kingdom to have the ships go forward to the East Indies, being well provided.
SIR EDWARD COKE reports concerning the committee about this House's honour and the Duke of Buckingham, that there was a very good correspondency held by us with their Lordships; that both committees agreed that the matter led the Duke of Buckingham to speak what he did at the conference with both Houses, which he did without any asperity or sharpness of words, and that his Grace was not only unworthy of blame but deserved much honour and thanks for what he delivered; and that our committee agreed with them therein, adding only these words "of the King and kingdom". That Sir Edward Coke did add that it was our desire that the King would not give any credit to such informations. That their Lordships said they had the same in consultation and did labour to find who gave the information to the King, and desired us to do the like.
[Afternoon,] committee [of the Whole House], Monday, 10 Martii 1623, concerning the great business of the treaty with Spain concerning the match and the Palatinate
Sir Edwin Sandys [in the chair].
Mr. Christopher Brooke. 4 reasons that we should treat no further with Spain concerning the Palatinate nor the match.
- 1. That it will be a great discomfort to all the reformed churches in Christendom [f. 38v].
- 2. That if we treat further, we shall discomfort the Hollanders, who have preserved the best part of Christendom from the devouring of the Spaniard, and they have been as an army of frogs raised by God to preserve us.
- 3. That of/
- Third [sic] reason is, for that our Prince has in Spain received great indignities and was made cheap among them. Lands and principalities are to be recovered but honour cannot so well.
- Fourth is for the religion's sake here at home, for the Catholics here are Spanish.
Sir Edward Wardour. That Charles 5, by the assistance of H. 8, got the Empire. After, Charles 5 promised to marry Queen Mary, and, coming over, agreed with H. 8 to invade France and said he and H. 8 would divide that kingdom between. But after he had served his turn upon us, he got a dispensation from the Pope not to proceed in that marriage.
Sir Robert Phelips. To be considered 2 particulars:
- 1. That we should render to the King our advice concerning the letters his Majesty received from Spain.
- 2. That we should give our opinion or advice whether the King should/
[f. 39] That his opinion is that the treaty of the match and the Palatinate should cease; and you can look nowhere, either on God or man, at home or abroad, but you shall see reason not to proceed with the treaty of Spain. That we deliver our opinion not to proceed any further with the treaty, and that we appoint we would [sic] a select committee appoint to agree of the reasons that we have here debated or may be thought fit to be the reasons why we think it best to have the treaty of the match to cease, and to present the same to this House tomorrow.
Sir George Chudleigh. That since, as the Bishop of Segovia said, a connivency of religion is as much as a toleration, and that Spain would not marry his sister but to have a toleration or at least a connivency, which themselves said could not be with them in Spain nor here in England without a rebellion, it is apparent that Spain intended not the match but to make a rebellion here, for the Spaniards and Gondomar said they would have a connivency according to the ecclesiastical articles agreed upon first established here.
It is, by question, the resolution of this committee that our House of Parliament should give advice to the King, that it is the opinion of our House that our King should cease [f. 39v] both treaties with Spain concerning the marriage and the restitution of the Palatinate.
And it is the opinion of the committee that there shall be a subcommittee appointed to collect and express the reasons whereby this House does fortify its opinion concerning the breach of both treaties.
Speaker goes into the chair.
It is ordered by question, sitting the House, that our House shall advise the King not [sic] to break off both treaties with Spain, that concerning the marriage and the restitution of the Palatinate.
It is ordered, by question in the House, that there shall be a select committee of twelve to collect, express and set down reasons to fortify the opinion of this House at the conference with the Lords, that it is fit that our King break off both treaties with Spain concerning the match with Spain and the restitution of the Palatinate, to sit in the Court of Wards presently and tomorrow to make report to this House.
X. DIARY OF SIR WILLIAM SPRING, HOUGHTON LIBRARY, HARVARD UNIVERSITY, MS ENG. 980
Monday, the first of March
For naturalizing James Paviere [sic] and one more. Read once.
SIR ARTHUR INGRAM moves that, as for courtesies, thanks are due and are ordinarily yielded upon ordinary courtesies between private parties, so that for the kindness and pains taken yesterday by Dr. [Isaac] Bargrave for preaching, that the House would appoint some to thank him from them, and to request him to print his sermon.
It was so ordered.
An act was read concerning the principality of Wales for/
An act for reformation of jeofails.
Passed both Houses last meeting.
An act for relief of patentees of Duchy lands concerning forfeitures for non-payment of rent.
Passed both [Houses] last time.
An act to enable the subject to plead the general issue with the King in matters of intrusion.
Passed both Houses last meeting.
SIR BENJAMIN RUDYARD remembers to the House how far we are bound to thank God for especial favours, first, for meeting here again to reform abuses and make wholesome laws and to advise for the good of the state; then, for the Prince's happy return and the blessed effects of that journey. To consider what cause we have also to thank the King that he does give us the trust to consult and discovery of those things that are the weightiest and most important affairs of Christendom in general and this particular state in special. And that now, we must make as quick an entrance and dispatch of this business as the Prince did of his journey into Spain, which we may freely confer upon because the King declared that res erat integra for his oath, and that since the fruit of these treaties is nothing but the loss of the Palatinate and increase of papists, it is time to break all of them off and to proceed no further therein, especially [p. 42] since thereby we find that religion has suffered much loss, and that it is sufficiently manifest that they never did mean it, and it cannot be thought that they that never meant it before will now, by way of compliment (because the Prince went there), yield to it. It stands not with the staidness of a Spanish council to do so. But yet, he advises to consider that if the treaty for the match do break, there must necessarily follow wars, and then it will be material to consider what aids or assistance we can expect abroad. France is poor and our part therein much decayed and brought low; the Protestant part of Germany is divided and disabled and ruinated; the Low Countries, the likeliest and surest friends we can look for, yet are to play their own game and attend their own state, and also the rotten faction of Arminians has, like a canker, much eaten into them and disunited them. Yet since further treaties with Spain will but be still more disadvantageous to us, it is fit to be broken, and that the Prince should endeavour to strengthen himself abroad with friends, and at home, and especially in Ireland with forces; and that the King would firmly combine with the states, which will take away all jealousies and distastes of foreign princes and let them see the King's real intendments, and so to make a diversion of war, not for the Palatinate, which is a lost piece not recoverable because now not worth the labour, but to seat the war nearer where means of daily supply may be sent from hence and every younger brother may have hopes to fish out some future fortunes.
[p. 43] SIR GEORGE MORE desires that in so weighty a cause, we should move slowly, that one thing at once is fit to be handled, that all may proceed with deliberation, that opus huius diei is to consider whether the treaty for the match should proceed or cease; wherein, he cannot but wonder so wise a King, of whom it may be said without flattery there was none such before him, that he could all this while be so drawn into the treaty of a business which from the first (as now is apparent) was never intended, and that he should not find the deceit sooner; but, as Hagar, could not see the well before God opened her eyes, so could not the King perceive it until the time was come, and the means that God appointed. He admires the blessing of God in bringing home the Prince safe in soul and body; and (being interrupted with noise of some that disliked his tediousness) concludes that God had both blessings and great matters to effect questionless for us because he has done thus.
SIR ROBERT PHELIPS says that since we have lost so much by the talking way already, it is now time, like Englishmen, to do. He remembers that the last Prince of Wales that ever went into Spain did go with an army and did return with victory and did settle a king there. Our Prince returns from them with the victory of an enabled judgement and settles himself on the care of the kingdom here at home. [Blank]
To continue the treaty still is to subject the King and state to more loss and abuses, for treaty is Spain's best army and with it, and under the security of that, they have gotten more, and especially the house of Austria, than ever was gotten by them otherwise, by Charles the 5th or any of their princes. Therefore, since it is the best and most [p. 44] advantageous weapon for Spain and most hurtful for us, it is to be resolved that no longer treaties with them be continued, for by these treaties we have lost our friends abroad, and well near ourselves at home, and almost God too.
For the Palatinate, which he cannot name without sighs to think of the loss of religion, the cruelty and oppression of the papists and Spaniards to the Protestants, and to think of the distress of that royal lady who (if ever any) was born under so ill a planet as that the power, (nay, rather) the will of 3 kingdoms would not help nor relieve a sin, which God lay not to our charge; the loss of this has advanced the pride of our enemies and increased them, lost us many friends and debased us in reputation in all Christendom; but if we talk of revenge, yet whether should we look but towards him that has wounded us. Spain is the great wheel that moves the whole frame of that business; they cannot, they will not, restore it us; it concerns Austria and Rome too much to part with it, and all these depend on Spain, for Spain and Rome are like the twins that laugh and weep and live and die together. There is no hope to gain it by treaty, then we must war for it, or something better than it. Spain must be the enemy. As far as the manner how, it is more proper for a conference with the Lords, which he moves, and that they may be acquainted with our opinions, and we may taste them, and that something may be advised on for the honour of God, the safety of the state and religion, which almost lie on their deathbed.
[p. 45] SIR MILES FLEETWOOD said, this is the day of joy to the kingdom that the King has interested the whole state in the consideration of so weighty affairs, that this Parliament is like the mount of blessing from whence Balaam could not curse Israel, that this Parliament comes like Noah's dove that brings news of storms and floods past, etc. [Blank] That all our mischiefs we suffer is from Spain, who has gained by treaties with us; that we should petition the King from further treaties with him because it is against religion, honour and peace. Religion is like the ark that carries a blessing with it wherever it remains, as it has in this land, etc.
SIR FRANCIS SEYMOUR wishes that, as we are one body in that House, so with one heart we may give the same good counsel for religion, safety of the state, and both safety and honour of the King and his children. And desires the House to observe and note how that, notwithstanding all former laws and care taken to suppress the increase and insolencies of the papists, how they are of late enlarged both in number and boldness, publicly thronging to the Spanish ambassadors, their insolency in many passages and attempts here with us, and, above the rest, that assault of the Prince in Spain to alter and change his religion, wherein it is admirable how happily and blessedly he continued constant. He observed, by the passages of the letters read the other day at the relation made to both Houses and since reported to this House, the manifest juggling and falsehood of the Spanish proceedings; further, that as many reasons have been shown why the match and the treaty of it is prejudicial and mischievous to our state and religion, so he cannot conceive what advantage or benefit can be expected or pretended by it. Honour: we can expect none of whom they do so basely and vilely esteem as to think us unworthy the honour of Christian burial being dead, as they have done to some of ours there. [p. 46] The portion is but a pension and some jewels, which perhaps may also prove as false as all the rest, too, upon trial. Therefore, he moves that a period may be put to this treaty, which is assuredly hurtful and not any way hopeful, and not to treat further of the Palatinate but to rest the care of that upon some means to be propounded here among us; and that either that or a better portion may be gained [in]spite of the King of Spain's teeth. Moves that the King may be petitioned to execute all his laws upon the papists and Jesuits, etc.
SIR JOHN ELIOT says it is now time rather to do than speak. Moves a speedy resolution to break off all treaties, and thinks that the King has not propounded this great business to the House to be advised in it, as if he were jealous or doubtful of himself what courses he should take, but to express his freeness and favour to trust us to advise with him and to acquaint us with the great affairs of the state. Therefore, advises to resolve on war, and of the means to furnish the King for that and to secure us at home, for else we can do little abroad, which may well be if the King will be pleased to take from the papists, by way of mulct or fine, all the monies due by law to him, which might well furnish him to withstand any attempts with his fleet against the great preparations which we have been informed of to be ready in Spain.
MR. [JOHN] PYM advises out of the reasons formerly by many delivered, that there might be a committee appointed to meet with the Lords to acquaint them with the opinion of the House, and to collect the reasons.
[p. 47] SIR ROBERT HITCHAM says that a private person thrice deceived by one, would be thought weak to rely on or trust him again, and to err in judgement and discretion. That it is so clear and manifest that the King has been often abused as that every man cannot but be of the opinion that all treaties must cease; and to yield reasons for that were but cibus bis coctus, the matter being so evident as if Gondomar himself were to plead to it, he would confess it and never put himself upon God nor the country for it, and therefore might well receive judgement upon the return of a nihil dicit. That this business is not to be further questioned now, but rather to provide that it may be reported abroad that the Parliament House (at the very first propounding of it) did determine all treaties with Spain to be concluded and broken off.
A message came from the Lords to move that both Houses might join in the clearing the Duke of Buckingham from the imputation (complained of) and charged to him before the King, as formerly the House was acquainted with on Friday last. The messengers were Sir Ranulphe Crewe and the King's Attorney [General].
They are returned with due thanks to the Lords for the motion of so good correspondency, and bade to tell them they should soon hear from us by some of our own House.
A report was made by the SOLICITOR what was done by the committee selected for that business of the Duke and had conceived a form for the clearing of the Duke's honour, which they thought fit the Speaker should present to the King for substance, not for the very words, and that the committee was divided in opinion whether they should go to the King together with the Lords about this, or several.
A message is sent to the Lords to let them know that a committee shall be sent to meet them concerning this business.
[p. 48] Another message is sent from the Lords, by the Master of the Rolls, the Chief Baron and the Attorney [General], to move the House that if it stood with their conveniency, that they would meet the Lords tomorrow, by 2 of the clock at Whitehall, to let the House understand of their opinion concerning the continuance of the treaties and to confer with our House about it, and concerning the advice of both Houses. The messengers are removed until an answer was framed after the long debate about it.
SIR DUDLEY DIGGES moves that the business is not yet so well deliberated as it should, and wishes that we may return answer that we will inform the Lords of the time when we can conveniently meet for this purpose.
SIR EDWARD CECIL advises that this afternoon may be spent by the whole House for the digesting this business, and offers to consideration that though this business be weighty and asks time of deliberation, yet it is no strange or new matter to any man but that it has been long known and often disputed of; that the world never conceived any probability of the match, and that it stood not with the designs of the Austrian family, of which the King of Spain is the main pillar ever to effect it; that it is now time to begin to deal with Spain or else he will soon deal with us, for it would be with him as with other men, that they never love the person they have once offended.
SIR ROBERT PHELIPS says that with desire to gain time, we lose it, and that though our affections hasten us, yet reason and judgement must be allowed her time and place. Wishes the House to return answer that, if conveniently we can, we will meet tomorrow or else we will send them word.
[p. 49] SIR WILLIAM COPE made a short motion to expedite it.
MR. [EDWARD] ALFORD says it is not yet disputed of sufficiently nor heads agreed upon, and therefore desires them to make use of the liberty of the message for conveniency of time and not to be straightened in that.
SIR THOMAS BELASYSE thinks that it is sufficiently disputed of and that more consultation is needless.
An answer is returned according to SIR ROBERT PHELIPS'S motion.
When many of the House were gone up with the message concerning the Duke of Buckingham, SIR GEORGE CALVERT, Secretary, in the name of himself and his fellow, declares to the House that the King commanded them to signify unto the House that he took notice of some complaints preferred against the Lord Keeper; that there are 2 already, to which he is ready to make answer, but the House is desired not to be too ready to take all complaints (except they be for corruption), for, as for matter of judgement and decree, it is impossible for him or any judge to give account of all the decrees he makes and the proofs and reasons conducing and moving him thereunto.
The House did not relish well this motion, and after, at the committee on Wednesday following, it was moved by a lawyer that all parties preferring complaints against such eminent persons might give security and caution for forthcoming. The House allowed not that motion then.
MR. [WILLIAM] CORYTON would have the great business expedited.
SIR HENRY MILDMAY moves to meet this afternoon about it.
[p. 50] SIR JOHN STRANGWAYS says that, necessarily, if these treaties break, the King of Spain is in honour engaged on a war, and therefore moves how necessary it is to prepare for our security here at home. Therefore, that the papists may be disarmed as heretofore by ancient precedents had been used; that the coasts might be secured as heretofore in like cases by men, armour and discipline; that fortification may be made where need and conveniency require; and to find means for this war, it may be from the forfeits of papists, and that if the King will pass the bills of grace, it will move much.
SIR DUDLEY DIGGES moves that as this business is great and requires much advice, so the parties are many and the counsel great that is to advise upon it; that it is the whole House of Commons, in which there are of divers sorts and qualities of men, and they happily could produce and yield many and various reasons. There be common lawyers that can advise by precedents, civil lawyers who could properly speak to the point of oaths and contracts, and country gentlemen that could speak of the means of the maintenance of wars and the present estate of the country thereunto. Therefore, moved that a general committee might be appointed this afternoon to consult about this of the whole House, for he said that one question, whether the treaty of the match should be jointly or severally handled, would ask much time to dispute.
[p. 51] SIR SIMEON STEWARD moves that it may be treated on by heads and distinctly.
SIR EDWIN SANDYS says that the original of this consultation arises from the King and thence does redound honour to the House, and advises that in the entrance into this business, we well consider to order our discourse as was advised in another case; when you enter into the presence of God, let your words be few. The King has propounded unto us what it is we should advise of, and that it is fittest to hold us exactly to those prescribed propositions for this time. That which the King requires is to advise him whether it be fit to continue either or neither of the treaties; a short substance, a long consequence; let that be the limits of this day's business. And to consider the Italian proverb, ambassadors and treaties are the Spaniards' own games; we have long played with them at their own game, and have been subject to their craft and cunning at it, and therefore now to consider (if it be not too late) whether we shall play any longer or not. And as opinion is but a matter of will, so it is not to be rested upon in matters of weight, so it is necessary to fortify our opinion with reason, and then it deserves the name of advice and fits well for resolution of great affairs; let then the reasons of this opinion be collected, to make the opinion good when occasion shall call for it.
SIR ROBERT PHELIPS reports that the Lords accepts [sic] the message sent them and will meet 12 of them in the Painted Chamber.
And the whole committee for the cause of the Duke is sent now to them.
An order is made that the Speaker be here by 2 of the clock this afternoon and that he shall sit by at the committee.
[p. 52] MR. [EDWARD] ALFORD excepts against the motion delivered by the Secretary from the King, saying that howsoever the corruption of bribery cannot be proved against a chancellor, yet it is fit the House should give way to other complaints since all our estates are in his only breast.
The House orders that this business shall be respited until the great business be dispatched and then to be disputed again.
SIR PETER HEYMAN moves against the entering of men's names unto motions in the Clerk's book.
The committee of privileges is to examine the old course in this and to relate it to the House.
SIR FRANCIS [sic] SEYMOUR moves that in regard of the present danger of the Spanish preparations, the ships, which are 4, prepared for the East Indies and stored with the best mariners and store of powder and munition, may not be suffered to go, especially since already most of the western ships are at the Newfoundland and not to return until Michaelmas; these bring nothing but spice and that is better spared than men, ships and arms at this time.
MR. [MAURICE] ABBOT answers there is but 600 men in all the ships, that they are well provided for danger of the Spaniard, who they hear does threaten them, but yet offers they shall submit to the orders of the House.
SIR EDWARD COKE reports that the Lords and we did agree in clearing the Duke from saying anything to the personal dishonour of the King of Spain, and that he was worthy of honour and thanks, and that the Lord Keeper would present this to the King in name of both Houses.
[p. 54] Monday, 2 o'clock in the afternoon
At the committee of the whole House, the Speaker and all being present (but he not in the chair), Sir Edwin Sandys being called to the Clerk's chair
Sir Dudley Digges moves the House to consider that if the House shall grow to a resolution for advising the breach of all further treaty of Spain, that then it is probable that the necessity of a war will follow, and that we should well deliberate of what ways and means that may be made good and how it may well and conveniently be enterprised with some possible hopes of a happy issue. He spoke not or intended to move any doubts or fears but rather to incite and stir them up to an unity of resolution out of a true consideration of the present and past affairs and state of things.
It may be well worth the observation how the house of Austria (now the most potent and formidable state of Christendom, taking the King of Spain, as he is, to be the top branch of that house) is grown by degrees from a mean and poor earldom in 200 years to the height, eminency and power it is now at, and to mark the steps whereby it has, in so short a space, advanced itself to so high a pitch. Rudolphus first attained the Empire at such time as it was offered to the King of Bohemia and he refused it, and, being invested with that dignity, settled the principality of Austria (fallen to the Empire by escheat) upon his own line and family, which after was much enlarged by the marriage of Maximilian with the inheritrix of the 17 Provinces; after which, by a marriage also, Philip obtained the kingdom of Spain, Naples and Sicily, and since has added the Indies. Naples was gotten by pretence of maintaining the title of a bastard; Navarre was also taken in by a war undertaken merely for the discourtesy offered for the denial of a passage to [blank] through that country; Portugal by the unjust dispossessing the right heir, who yet has an heir that lives in the Low Countries who undoubtedly has yet just title (though little hopes) to that crown. [p. 55] So that it is evident by all these that as that estate and monarchy of Spain and the house of Austria is now great, so that they have this maxim and principle, that whatsoever is by them gotten, or howsoever, yet they will hold and keep it; and withal, to observe that the intendments and affection of that state is to enlarge itself (as it has done) by all ways and means, etc.
Whosoever shall read this, I wish them to know that I took short notes of his speech and may much wrong it both for the manner of the delivery and for the matter, because I could not either follow his method nor note all the matters as he laid them down; these are but private notes for my own memory, and imperfect both for matter and form as well in substance as circumstance; and as for this speech, so for others in this book.
He propounded to consideration the present state of ourselves and friends thus: that by reason of this potency of the Austrian family and the continuance of the late treaties, our friends in foreign parts, which are the professors of the religion with us both in Germany and elsewhere, are weakened and discouraged, and religion everywhere lies (as it were) buried up in embers and ashes; that at home, we have a secret and great part that are dangerous if these treaties break and wars succeed. It is necessary, then, to consider how to make good these attempts of breaking the treaties, which are followed with these and many more weighty and dangerous consequences; to consider further what way we shall gain trust with foreign friends, when we have made a breach of these treaties, etc., etc.
Dr. [Barnaby] Gooch advises, that in case the treaties be broken and that war must ensue, to think how just and honest the causes of such an effect are; and howsoever it be necessary that war must be where peace cannot be had without it, yet that principally the justice and equity of the war (that God's blessing may go with it) is duly to be considered; further, that the recovery of the Palatinate is impossible, and that it is time lost to treat of impossibilities and a course ill beseeming a wise council to undertake. [p. 56] And as chiefly the justice of the quarrel must be regarded, so the place and seat of war is to be considered, for in regard of needful and timely means and supplies, it is requisite that it should be near us in some measure. And then it will be questionable where to find such an enemy with whom we may have a just cause of quarrel. Who has wronged us? For howsoever it is apparent that the Spanish arms and forces have been the means of dispossessing the Palatinate of the right owner (who has therefore a just quarrel with Spain), but what cause have we to war with him, what justice is there for us to quarrel with him? Our friend's cause is no just cause for us. Besides, it ought well to be considered how we are able to maintain a war, when, so far as he can learn, the provisions necessary for war are not with us for one day's good service, yet we are not desperate, etc.
But here he was taken off, the noise did interrupt him, etc.
Sir Robert Killigrew moves that the proper point to be now treated of is whether the treaties should hold or not and to leave other things to their due time, and desires the House to hold to that point.
Sir William Strode moves to put the treaty of the match to question in the House, and doubts not the strength and means of maintaining war (if they must follow) for more than a day.
Sir Edward Coke remembers the House that we must give our advice, not our opinions, and that therefore it is necessary that some select committee be appointed to collect the reasons which everyone delivers and to draw them to some heads that we may be able to show the reasons from whence our opinion shall receive life.
And as Parliament precedents are fittest for Parliaments and held there in most esteem, he will acquaint the House with some passages of the Parliament concerning the articles of treaty and contract made in Parliament between King Philip and Queen Mary. [p. 57] First, it was ordered that no Spaniard might enjoy any living nor pension here; that no Spaniard should enjoy or exercise any judicial or ministerial place in the land; that they might inherit or receive no rent or revenue from here; that the sole and absolute government should rest in the Queen and matters disposed and governed only by her Council; that no attempts against the King should be called treason; that no law or custom of Spain should be brought into England; that no Spaniard should offer an Englishman any disgrace of injury; that the children to be born should be nursed at the disposing of the English; that none of the children should pass to Spain without the consent of the nobility. All this was done when the religion of England was the same with theirs, the Queen married to that King; and yet how cautious were they then, how much more is it now necessary to be wary in treaties and capitulations with them. He conceives that from the natural sense of the words in the Parliament writ, we are justly moved to the care and consideration of these things, for the writ calls the Parliament to consult ex arduis et urgentibus negotiis nos et statum regni nostri Angliae et ecclesiae concernentibus, the advice is ex arduis, the speed of it implied in urgentibus, it concerns the King in the word nos and his children too, the state of the kingdom and the church. And by that may be observed that even in those times, which was in the days of Henry the 5th, though the church depended as is now thought [sic] wholly on the Pope, yet the Parliament was interested in the care and reformation of the abuses of it, as was needful in regard of the insolency and luxury of the priests, etc.
[p. 58] Mr. Christopher Brooke yields these reasons for the breaking of the match. That by continuing it, we shall still discourage the friends of our state and religion and give advantage to Spain, who has and yet will gain by the holding of it on foot, and be a mean[s] to prejudice the estate of the reformed church everywhere. We shall also hazard the loss of the Hollanders, which are our surest friends and strongest bulwark against Spain for our state, those whom God has by miracle raised and supported, who have been the only remora of the Spaniards' greatness over the Christian world; these have been ordained from above to be the mean[s] to waste and exhaust the Spanish treasure, with which being laden as the asses were that thereby had free entrance at every gate, so they would have procured way and entrance into all states by that key. If we should by continuing these treaties or any, suffer the Low Countries to be devoured by Spain, we should not only lose their assistance and friendship but be subject to the mischiefs of their powers and shipping to annoy us. This is paries nostra; we must look to that. And howsoever loss may be recovered (yet in this kind not probable), dishonour and disgrace can hardly be satisfied to the party suffering. The honour of our Prince has suffered and does, and of our state and kingdom by the continuance of these treaties, but that which is most, religion, which is pars nostra, that suffers most and loses most in this. Since, then, religion itself cannot gain the love of other states to Spain, for Italy, though of the same religion, loves them not, nor the Catholics of Germany, nor France (only our English papists, of all the world, affect Spain), let us not continue so disadvantageous and dishonourable treaties.
[p. 59] Sir Edward Wardour moves the House to take into consideration two examples or precedents of Spanish proceedings and by them to conceive how safe and hopeful it may be to continue treaty with Spain. The first may serve for a parallel of the match, the other for the treaty of the Palatinate. Charles the 5th obtained the Empire by the only means and assistance of Henry the 8 and entered contract to marry Mary, the King's sister, and to enter jointly upon France with their forces and to divide the kingdom between them, and these articles were sworn unto at Paul's Church at London. Henry the 8 performed his covenant, sent an army into France, the King of France was taken prisoner and sent into Spain; and yet for all this, a peace was concluded between Charles and the French King, and Henry the 8 excluded and the marriage renounced under pretext of advice by his Parliament to the contrary. Henry had no recompense of his cost and charge, and, procuring a dispensation from the oath, it was signified to King Henry by a public notary of the state.
The parallel for the Palatinate. It is an usual thing with the Kings of Spain being ready to die to acknowledge the unjust acquiring and possession of the Neapolitan state, and by way of repentance and restitution do bequeath the care of satisfaction in that particular to his successor, who notwithstanding does yet never do it, so careful are they to resign up willingly what they have gotten unjustly.
Sir George Chudleigh affords his reasons from observations of the relation and letters read the other day, that the Spaniard never intended a match; the restitution of the Palatinate is but a consequent of the match; then, if no match, no restitution. That they never intended a match appears by the [p. 60] speech of the Bishop of Segovia, who inferred that a match could not be without a toleration; a toleration would move a rebellion here and that, therefore, it could not be. But when the articles were sent and they informed that they were passed and allowed, they were like amazed men, and showed by their sudden declining and delaying that all they had aimed at was to move rebellion here in England, as the Prince had observed. He further answered that the birth of the Infanta, which they so much glory in, was eclipsed much in the baseness of her portion not answerable to so high a state; her virtues commendable but wanting their original from the true fountain of a sound faith, they failed of their lustre, etc.
Sir Robert Harley moves, consideration of our foreign enemies to be great but of those at home much more, who lie in our bosoms and are not distinguished nor known of us but are familiar and conversant in all companies and all councils. Shows that it is impossible that the King can break off the treaty of marriage and continue that for the Palatinate, that it must join with the other, and that the care and case of the King's grandchildren does concern us chiefly. That it is high time to make sure with the Hollander, who wants not offers and will assuredly join with support and friends elsewhere, if they should be still made jealous of us by continuing the treaties, either of them.
[p. 61] Mr. [Richard] Hutton grounds his opinion of the breach of the treaties upon two reasons: first, that while that lasts we must necessarily nourish, the wolf does devour us; the 2nd is that, it continuing, we are in danger of all the discommodities of a popish match.
Sir Thomas Jermyn moves that an order may be made to thrust the word "treaty" out of the House, for every man is weary to hear of it; that all this while we have, like Samson, laboured and ground at our enemy's mill; if anything were now de novo, it were best to handle it with a Spanish pace. But this we have desired and prayed for long; therefore, first, resolve to end this matter of treaties and other things will fall in their own time and place to be considered on. The Spaniard will take it for injury enough that we will be no longer abused, and will not want to give us just occasions of war when we leave to treat, and so will preserve our honours for that point.
The House resolves, by a universal vote, to deliver their opinions and the reasons of them at the conference with the Lords why they think fit to break off the treaties.
Here, the Speaker was put to the chair again and the committee ended, and Sir Edwin Sandys reports the resolution of the committee.
And now the House orders that the Lords shall be acquainted tomorrow, ut supra, and that a select committee shall collect the main reasons and report them to the House tomorrow by 9 of the clock.
XI. DIARY OF SIR THOMAS HOLLAND, BODL., TANNER MS 392
First [?read]. An act for the naturalizing of David Stanniere.
First read. An act for the naturalizing Jacques de Best.
An act for the repeal of one brance [sic] of the statute 34 H. 8 concerning Wales.
An act for further reformation of jeofails.
An act for relief of patentees, farmers and tenants of crown lands in case of forfeitures for the non-payment of their farms [sic].
An act to enable the subject to plead the general issue for intrusion.
[SIR] B[ENJAMIN] RUDYARD. To advise his Majesty to break off the match, the treaty of the Palatinate.
[f. 12v] [SIR] GEORGE MORE. For the treaty of the match and Palatinate, that it may end and no further proceeding.
[SIR] R[OBERT] PHELIPS. The cause conducing the Prince's us [sic] journey to Spain, his continuance there and his return back again. B[blank]. 2 considerations: marriage, Palatinate. The marriage: whether to advise to proceed; if it proceed, then whether it shall succeed; if succeed, then whether it be good. The treaty has been the best army the King of Spain has had many a year, for their gain thereby has been great; but we thereby have lost our friends abroad and lost our God thereby. Therefore, obnoxious.
For the Palatinate, it moves sighs to think of the loss of that and the distress of that lady which has been born under an unhappy planet, that 3 great kingdoms could [not] prevent. It has cost much blood, it has lost us a great deal of reputation abroad and staggered us at home, for the gaining of it is to no purpose. He got it, he maintained it and still holds it. Let us go nearer home and fix upon a diversive war upon Spain. [f. 13] For this, he moves a conference with the Lords speedy.
SIR MILES FLEETWOOD. Persons that we have suffered by, persons that we have been honoured by. The first, the Spaniard. The second, God, who has discovered it. And admire the Prince, who has been the principal in our hopes. 3 reasons: against religion, against the King, honour of the estate, against the peace and safety of the kingdom. That we may address ourselves, therefore, to an immediate or diversive war.
FRANCIS SEYMOUR. Though his Majesty in all his treaties was careful for religion, yet see how the ambassadors' houses are so frequented, and Lords' and gentlemen's houses pestered, and many of our people perverted. They hold us for heretics and will not allow us Christian burial. Therefore, that his Majesty would put a period to this treaty and the ambassadors sent home, neither to treat of the Palatinate anymore but refer the consideration to us. To put in execution the laws/
[f. 13v] [SIR] JOHN ELIOT. A defence for our kingdom. We feared that there was an army preparing, therefore, to set out a fleet for the securing Ireland. A too general receipt through the kingdom of Jesuits. That the fines may be collected.
[MR. JOHN] PYM. That it is fit a negative for no more treaties.
[SIR ROBERT] HITCHAM. They are relatives.
Messengers from the Lords: [Sir Ranulphe] Crewe, Attorney [General]. That whereas they had cleared and justified the Duke of Buckingham and had chosen a committee to present it to the King, that they did not intend to proceed alone but that our House, taking into our consideration the same, we might go together.
The vote of the House in answer to the Lords' message: that they give thanks for their correspondency with this House. The House purposes that they shall, this forenoon, receive messengers from the House.
SOLICITOR, report. The order: to take in consideration the dishonour done to the Duke of Buckingham. Report, the directions to the Speaker: [f. 14] that they are very sensible of the wrong done to the person of the Duke.
[SIR JAMES] PERROT. [Blank]
[SIR ROBERT] PHELIPS. That the message may be sent to the Lords to appoint the number, time and place.
And to signify that with one unaime consent, we have cleared the Duke.
Order. Sir Robert Phelips is to deliver the message with the committee aforesaid.
Another message from the Lords: that we should meet with the Lords tomorrow at two of the clock in the hall at Whitehall, for a conference in the great business wherein the King has been pleased to require our advice.
[SIR DUDLEY] DIGGES. That a longer day be considered of to give answer to so weighty a business.
[SIR EDWARD] CECIL. That we banish the papists, for to tolerate spies is the only means of gaining any design. Never any prince did anything to so good purpose, and shall we make a doubt whether we shall break or no.
[f. 14v] The answer to the message: that the House has a care to speed this great business. If they can with conveniency, they will meet with their Lordships for a conference tomorrow; if not, this House will send messengers tomorrow signifying the same.
SECRETARY [CALVERT]. His Majesty commanded the 2 Secretaries to deliver to this House that he takes notice of some petitions that have been and are to be delivered against the Lord Keeper. That the House will not entertain any more against him except they be for corruption, and then spare him not.
[SIR HENRY] MILDMAY. [Blank]
[SIR JOHN] STRANGWAYS. That we may secure ourselves at home by confining the papists to men of sincere religion. That the ports be looked to. That the trained soldiers be disciplined and munitioned. 1,006,000 [sic] trained men in England. To reunite the forces of war.
[SIR DUDLEY] DIGGES moves for a committee to debate in this business for/
[f. 15] [SIR] SIMEON STEWARD. That we have a committee to debate this afternoon.
[SIR] EDWIN SANDYS. The King has done us the greatest honour that can be; the counsel he did ask, whether it was fit to hold in treaty or give an absolute end. He advise that we should only treat whether his Majesty should proceed only with the treaty. Embassies and treaties are the Spaniards' own game. We have suffered much, God grant we have not too much. It has been a happy journey of the Prince; let us not only say break it, but give reasons to the Lords why they should not proceed.
Report, SIR [ROBERT] PHELIPS. That the Lords did take into good part our desire of correspondency and desired the present meeting of a committee to answer; 12 of the Lords.
Order. A committee of the whole House to meet for this great business and the Speaker to come to sit as occasion shall be.
SIR EDWARD SEYMOUR. That we have respect and due consideration of the message delivered from the King.
[f. 15v] Order that the message/
[SIR PETER] HEYMAN. That the Clerk set no man's name to any motion.
It is ordered that the committee of privileges shall examine former precedents whether the Clerk has set to the names to their motions.
SIR EDWARD SEYMOUR. There is a 1,000 mariners in 5 ships going to the Indies. There is 1,600 barrels of powder and 800 muskets.
[MR. MAURICE] ABBOT. There are 4 ships well furnished with powder and munitions. They will take in 600 men. The King of Spain set out 3 galleons [blank] and had in charge [blank]. Now there is set out 8 galleons, two carracks by the King of Spain. Therefore, they are to be/
[f. 16] [SIR EDWARD] COKE reports, which was without asperity or sharpness of words. Lord Canterbury delivered the effect between both Houses that the matter delivered by the Duke cleared him of blame and thought him worthy of thanks, which did concur with ours verbatim. This is to be presented to the King by the Lord Keeper for both Houses.
Afternoon, committee [of the Whole House]
[Sir Robert] Mansell. [Blank]
[Sir Dudley] Digges. That we join to inform one another. In 300 years that Austria is come from an earldom to this greatness. Annaburg, it was so poor that the King of Bohemia refused it. Maximilian got 17 provinces after the marriage of Burgundy. Since our last proposition, how is Germany and how Moravia and Silesia and the Princes of the Union? It is no breaking without seeking our security.
[Dr. Barnaby] Gooch. 2 things, marriage and treaty; no opinion of either except an entrance into the due consideration of both. If we enter into a war, let it be just. If we fix upon a near war, 5s. will carry out that, Â£5will not to the Palatinate. The Prince Palatinate has a just quarrel with Spain but England has none.
[f. 16v] [Sir Edward] Cecil. [Blank]
[Sir Robert] Killigrew. That we may fall to the question whether it be fit to break the treaty.
[Sir Edward] Cecil. That we may repair to the demonstrations which was in the like at Newmarket, which will serve to this purpose.
[Sir Edward] Coke. It is against the old Parliament way to preface, comment nor repeat; that is not to give counsel. The King of Spain is potent and opulent, yet our master is before him. Council at Constance, 1614[sic], Ed. 5, it was judged the King of England had the place given him though he was the Pope's eldest son. When King Philip married Queen Mary, that no Spaniard have any spiritual promotion within England, yet they were all of one religion; no Spaniard have office judicial or place whatsoever; no land, no pension to any Spaniard; the government should be in Queen Mary, and King Philip but an assistant; that he should change no law nor custom or bring in any Spanish law; if King Philip had children by Queen Mary, they should be nursed here and not in Spain except the nobility did give leave. [f. 17] 1 H. 5 when ecclesia anglicana came in. The motion is twofold: if we can resolve of that in hand, then to confer; if not yet, to go to hear the Lords and report. [Blank]
4 reasons why the match shall sleep. 1st, [blank]. Much disconsolate our friends the Hollanders, our good friends who have been a bulwark to us; if we treat, then our friends shall be swallowed up and we are next. 4[th], that the Prince has suffered so much personal disgrace by the delay and deluding. 5th, religion. The English papists love a Spanish papist and no other country loves them else, therefore, the more dangerous.
[Sir Edward] Wardour. Charles 5th by H. 8 obtained the Empire, who promised Queen Mary. He came over, did enter into contract, did agree to part France with H. 8. Charles 5th called a Parliament, protested against the match though H. 8 had been at all the charge of the wars, and he procured the Earl of Desmond in Ireland.
[Sir Robert] Phelips. 2 particulars: that we render to his Majesty advice for the treaty, whether go on or break off; next, for the match. That the treaty of the Palatinate is not longer to be continued; next, it is not fit to go on with the match. [f. 17v] The reasons he desire may be digested by a select committee and so go to the Lords.
[Sir George] Chudleigh. The Spanish council means not to match, therefore, it is fit we shall break it off.
[Sir Robert] Harley. [Blank]
[Sir Thomas] Jermyn. That we may go to the Lords to render our advice, which is for the dissolution of marriage and Palatinate, tomorrow with one unanimous desire.
Question: as many as are of opinion to give advice to his Majesty to dissolve the match and treaty, they must say I, which is so passed by question.
The Speaker in the chair.
A select committee appointed to set down what may fortify for the conference with the Lords.
XII. DIARY OF JOHN PYM, NORTHAMPTONSHIRE RECORD OFFICE, FH/N/C/0050
An act for the naturalizing of/
An act for the naturalizing of Jacques de Best.
An act for the repeal of a proviso 24 H. 8 concerning laws and ordinances for the dominion of Wales.
An act for the further reforming of jeofails.
An act for relief of pleas of the crown and Duchy lands against forfeiture for non-payment of rents.
An act to enable the inquest to plead the general issue upon information of intrusion.
SIR BENJAMIN RUDYARD was the first that spoke in the great business, and because it was all so weighty as cannot be abbreviated without loss and was, indeed, the mould of the resolution of the whole Parliament, it shall be entered more at large.
[f. 11v] SIR GEORGE MORE. That the treaty of the Palatinate was only referred to us to give our advice concerning the ceasing of that and to go no further.
SIR ROBERT PHELIPS. The proceedings of both contained in the relation and we are to advise upon the whole matter, and therefore not to meddle with the Palatinate without the marriage. He divided it into 3 questions:
- 1. Whether we should proceed in these treaties.
- 2. Whether in going on they were like to succeed.
- 3. Whether that success would be good.
He held all negative. His reasons were their dilatory proceedings, the frauds and abuses discovered, the advantages they had already made, greater than Charles the 5th could win with all his armies, or Philip the 2nd with all his Jesuits. The misfortunes grow by these means to those distressed princes, the King's children, who, if they had not been born under a hard planet, might by the power of this kingdom have been able to defend both their natural and acquired greatness. But this, he said, was a sin which he prayed God to forgive. Particular injuries were immediately of the Spaniard, whose armies first possessed and now defend the Palatinate, though perchance the first motion was from the great wheel that set all the other wheels on work. That it was against the general aim of that state to restore what they have thus gotten, and as wise men they could not intend it. Rome and Spain are twins, and in these treaties we could not be sure of one without the other. He concluded [f. 12] we should desire a conference with the Lords that so we might reconcile our opinions if they did not consent with us herein.
Other speeches there were, some magnifying the hopes of the augmentation of religion, honour of the kingdom, domestical peace of the state, great profit by a war with Spain; others moving that the Spanish ambassador might quickly be sent away and that the penalties upon recusants might be levied for a present supply.
A message from the Lords interrupted this debate: that having cleared my Lord of Buckingham, they desired to recommend it to the King, and because it concerned both Houses, were not willing to go divided but desire to join with us. But because our committee for that business had not yet made any report, the messengers were sent back with thanks and promise of a full answer by some of our own.
MR. SOLICITOR made this report concerning my Lord of Buckingham: that the committee conceived the Lords would have gone to his Majesty before us, and therefore had agreed to go single. The speech to be delivered by the Speaker, for whose direction they had provided some points in writing:
- 1. The notice of the complaint taken from the Lords.
- 2. His clearing that he had let fall no words that might reflect upon the honour or person of the King of Spain.
- 3. That he deserved both honour and thanks.
- 4. That they were sensible not only of a wrong done to the Duke of Buckingham but to our own House.
- 5. That if that Lord could not be free, much less others unless his Majesty would be pleased to stop his ears against such suggestions.
Sir Robert Phelips was sent to the Lords with our consent to join with them and to desire a conference.
Another message came from the Lords to desire a conference tomorrow at two of the clock about the great business.
There was a little dispute concerning the acceptance of this conference. It was objected, on the one side, that too much haste in so great a business was unsafe; on the other, that our enemies had the advantage of preparation and our greatest danger was our unwariness. To this was replied that unseasonable meetings would cause delay and not speed. Therefore, according to a middle opinion, the messengers were returned with this answer: that our affections did carry us apace in this business, but our judgements were to follow with circumspection. We would meet their Lordships, if we could be ready, or else they should hear from us.
SECRETARY CALVERT. A message from the King: that he had received notice of some informations against the Lord Keeper and that there were more to come in, to which, though he knew he would be ready to give answer, yet his Majesty's desire was that we should not suffer any aspersions to be cast upon him unless for matter of corruption, wherewith he assured himself he [f. 12v] could not be charged.
The general silence showed this to be no welcome message, but it caused no debate at this time.
SIR JOHN STRANGWAYS resumed the great business and moved for a conclusion upon those heads which had been propounded by Sir Benjamin Rudyard.
SIR DUDLEY DIGGES interposed divers objections, not to the matter but to the haste. That we should not make an end before we had begun, lest our House seem to follow will and not reason. That, first, we might turn ourselves into a committee where we might speak at pleasure, and perchance it will be fit to have some further information before we conclude by conference with civil lawyers' view of the articles and oaths, opinions of sea-soldiers, consideration of affairs of state.
SIR EDWIN SANDYS. The original moves from the King, wherein he has done us great honour to restrain our answer to this proposition. The question short, the consequence large; nor both treaties to be taken into consideration at this time, or at all to meddle with other matters between us and Spain. Treaties and embassies are their own game. To make a protestation not to touch the honour of the King of Spain; to thank God that had raised up to us such a great light as the Prince and my Lord of Buckingham, his servant in it; and to give the Lords some reasons together with our advice of breaking the treaty.
SIR ROBERT PHELIPS returned from the Lords with a report that they desired a present meeting touching my Lord of Buckingham, which was agreed.
It was likewise ordered the House should sit in the afternoon.
SIR FRANCIS SEYMOUR. To take the message concerning the Lord Keeper into consideration and return a mannerly answer.
This gave occasion to renew the motion that no man might be entered by the Clerk to his speech. Others desire to observe the ancient course and that the Clerk's book might be perused. So the business was referred to the committee of privileges and were commanded to peruse the precedents in the like cases.
Information was given of 5 ships ready to go for the East Indies, wherein there were 1,000 mariners, 160 barrels of powder, 800 muskets; and withal it was remembered that we had lost of late in the western parts 100 ships, 1,500 mariners were taken prisoners with the Turk, whereof there was more reason to keep our men and the powder than to send them for spices.
MR. [MAURICE] ABBOT acknowledged 4 ships to be ready and provided, which was done upon intelligence from Lisbon of 4 galleons provided [f. 13] to go against the English in the East Indies, besides 8 other and 2 galleys already in those parts. That this provision was made for their defence, yet they left behind 2 other good ships ready for the command of the state. And doubted not but the other employment was both honourable and profitable for the kingdom.
SIR EDWARD COKE reported the agreement of the committees of the Lower House touching the message to the King for clearing of my Lord of Buckingham, which was according to the draft with this addition after those words "honour and thanks", "from the whole realm".
Eodem die, at a committee of the whole House
Sir Dudley Digges had for his premises full narration of the growth of the house of Austria, wherein he observed the several occasions of their access to their present greatness ever since the first beginning thereof in the Earls of Habsburg. That divers other princes were drawn into the Catholic Union and all our friends abroad discouraged, and a secret party among ourselves. And for his conclusion, if the marriage continued, the treaty for the Palatinate was an advantage, therefore, by no means to sever them, for so we might engage ourselves in war without furthering religion or securing ourselves at home.
Dr. [Barnaby] Gooch. No man can well deliver his opinion of this question without consideration of the consequence, and that is like to be war. A pleasing word to men without experience, but you must provide the war be profitable and that it may be just, then you shall have God's blessing and man's encouragement. To recover the Palatinate by a war there is impossible. Your enemy will bring men there for 5s. 10d. apiece; you cannot do for Â£5. But you will make a diversive war upon a near neighbour. What's the quarrel? His arms did win and do now hold the Palatinate. If he were principal, it were a just reason, but he is interested but by consequence. And it will be like Caesar's quarrel to the Britons because they helped the French. The Elector has a just quarrel to the Emperor. What is that to the English? Let us take advice of the gospel, and consider whether with 10,000 we are able to fight with him that comes against us with 20,000; whether we have munition to supply an army one day; whether we have sufficient able men and treasure before we engage ourselves and our state into this war.
To this were exceptions taken.
Sir G. [sic] Killigrew. That discourses of war were no part of our business.
Sir Edward Cecil. The treaties ought break without any such consequence.
Sir William Strode. Such discovery of our weakness was an invitation to our enemies.
Mr. [Christopher] Brooke propounded divers reasons against the match:
- 1. The discomfort of all the reformed churches.
- 2. The endangering of the Low Countries.
- 3. Disabling the kingdom in giving Spain opportunity of being master of that state.
- 4. Personal disgrace offered to the Prince in Spain.
- 5. Hazard of religion by depending of all English papists upon Spain.
[f. 13v] Sir Edward Wardour, to show what advantages the Spaniard would make of religion to their own temporal ends, told 2 stories of Charles the Fifth. And in the conclusion, remembered how much Ferdinand, on his death bed, seemed to bewail the taking away of Navarre and by his will did appoint it to be surrendered, which is likewise used by all other Kings of Spain since.
Sir Robert Phelips. That the 2 treaties were so involved that we could not deliver our opinions in one without the other.
To which was added by Sir G[eorge] Chudleigh that the Palatinate was but a condition of the match, and if it were intended it should seem it was not for our good, for it appears by the Bishop of Segovia that they regained such conditions as they conceive would cause a rebellion.
Sir Thomas Jermyn. That we were yet like Samson grinding in the mill before his enemies; these 2 treaties, like the 2 pillars, must be overthrown. We should not now be slack in that for which we have prayed this seven years. There would be time enough hereafter to think upon the consequence.
The question was put for both treaties and agreed by the committee, and the Speaker was called to the chair and the same question passed in the House. And a committee appointed to collect the reasons to be presented with this our advice.
At the subcommittee
These reasons were propounded, which are set down in that order wherein they were spoken, not in proper order of dependence:
- 1. The injuries that have been offered in these treaties: in that of the Palatinate by eluding our ambassadors with shows of peace while they proceeded to the taking of towns; in that of the marriage, under the colour of friendship imposing laws of servitude.
- 2. That the Spaniard kept a constant course in managing their state, which upon no change of Prince or occasion they would alter. And that they could not give us contentment in these treaties without crossing 2 of their maxims: the first, to have no quarrel with the Emperor; the second, to keep correspondency with the Pope.
- 3. Their endeavours to make a party here, not contenting themselves with securing the Infanta in her own religion but labouring to root out ours. That there were now 1,064 priests and Jesuits in England, whereas in the Queen's time there were but 400. For supply of these, there are 25 religious houses beyond the sea, whereas there were then but seven. The doctrine of the Spanish Jesuits: one God, one faith, one king; and all our papists now become Spanish papists.
- 4. The danger of the King's confederates in the Low Countries.
- 5. The impossibility of restoring the Electorate because it was given away; and the importance of it in choosing the Emperor.
Two exceptions were offered: the first, by Mr. Recorder, not to make that a reason breaking off the match because we could not obtain it; the other, by Mr. Solicitor, to present nothing that might discontent [f. 14] the King's friends that were of another religion.
XIII. DIARY OF SIR WALTER EARLE, BL, ADD. MS 18,597
Two of the House deputed to thank the preacher.
Bill for repeal of a statute concerning the principality of Wales, made in Henry 8['s] time. Bill of grace. First read.
Bill for reformation of jeofails. First read.
Bill for relief of patentees of crown lands in case of forfeiture for non-payment of rent.
Bill to enable the subject to plead the general issue against the King. First read.
SIR BENJAMIN RUDYARD'S speech, taken as he spoke it, being the first in the great business concerning the treaties.
[f. 36] SIR GEORGE MORE. The business of great weight, fit to proceed slowly.
SIR ROBERT PHELIPS. The gentleman that first spoke put us into so right a way as whosoever [blank]. None will think other of the proposition. To talk of the Palatinate without the marriage is to beat the air. Question, whether we should advise his Majesty to proceed or no. I am of opinion that when we consider the delays, there is no great likelihood. Next, if it should proceed, whether, etc. This treaty has been the best army the King of Spain has had these many years. [f. 36v] Done more than Charles 5 or Philip. We have lost our friends abroad, almost ourselves at home, and God Almighty also. To conclude, I hold it not fit. For the other, the Palatinate not to be named without sighs and sorrows in regard of the loss of that country. It has rooted out all our party in Germany. It has made the world jealous of us. It has made us almost a people without reputation. Rome and Spain are good twins, they weep and laugh together. Seeing there is no means to gain it by making it the seat of war, my opinion, therefore, by a diversion.
SIR MILES FLEETWOOD. The persons we have suffered by are Spain, etc. Their letters make it appear they never intended [blank]. Reasons against proceeding:
SIR FRANCIS SEYMOUR. We see how careful his Majesty has been, yet how contrary a success. I must needs take notice, first, of the concourse of recusants to ambassadors' houses; [f. 37] second, of the resort of priests and Jesuits to great men's houses. The match can be no way beneficial. What hope can we have of the alliance, seeing they have esteemed us as heretics? For portion, we see to what it is come, a pension and jewels, whereof some (for ought I know) may be counterfeit. Opinion, that best to cease the treaty. Send away the Spanish Ambassador. Set upon a course for the Palatinate.
SIR J[OHN] ELIOT. It is war must amend and repair that which is wrong. Whatever become of the war, it will be fit to look to our navy. A means to set on the war speedily. Take the forfeitures of recusants that are in praemunire.
A message from the Lords: whereas they had signified, by message on Friday last, they had cleared the Duke of Buckingham and did purpose to present it by a committee to the King, they did not mean to go apart, but that both Houses should join therein.
Answer: the House thank their Lordships and will send by messengers of their own.
[f. 37v] MR. SOLICITOR'S report from the committee touching the wrong offered the Duke of Buckingham and this House.
A message from the Lords: in the great business wherein his Majesty has demanded the advice of both Houses, the Lords, willing to give expedition, desire a conference between both Houses tomorrow at Whitehall at two of the clock in the afternoon.
Answer: the House will meet to confer, etc., at the time appointed, if conveniently it may be; if not, the Lords shall hear from us tomorrow morning.
MR. SECRETARY [CALVERT'S] message from the King. The King having taken notice of some/
SIR HENRY MILDMAY moved for a committee of the whole House this afternoon.
Seconded by SIR DUDLEY DIGGES.
SIR EDWIN SANDYS. The original of our consultation moves from the King. I would not come short of his demand, neither would I exceed it, viz. whether his Majesty should continue those treaties with Spain or no. The Spaniards have a proverb, ambassages are their own gain.
[f. 38] SIR ROBERT PHELIPS'S report. The Lords took thankfully. Appoint a committee presently; the number 12; the place, in the Painted Chamber.
Upon the message from the King, MR. [EDWARD] ALFORD concerning the Secretary's message.
Ordered that the resolving of this shall be respited until this great business be past.
Upon SIR PETER HEYMAN'S motion, ordered the Clerk shall not, henceforth, set down any man's name to any motion made, but only to an order, etc.
Ordered that the committee of privileges shall search the records touching them.
MR. [EDWARD] ALFORD moved that the 17 reasons last presented to the King might be brought into the House by the Clerk.
SIR EDWARD SEYMOUR. 1,000 mariners and 5 ships now going to the East Indies, 1,500 barrels of gunpowder, 800 muskets, 1,800 mariners in Turkey.
MR. [MAURICE] ABBOT. But 4 ships and but 600 men. The King of Spain has sent 3 galleys, 4 galleons. A commission to fall upon the English in all parts of the East Indies. 8 galleons and 2 carracks, more providing.
[f. 38v] SIR EDWARD COKE'S report. Great correspondence. The Archbishop delivered the conference. The words were: the matter did lead the Duke of Buckingham to say what he did, and that he did it without asperity of words, and that he was not only not worthy of blame but worthy of honour and thanks. Agreed that this much, and no more, shall be presented to the King.
Afternoon, the committee of the whole House for debating of the great business
Sir Dudley Digges. The state of things much altered since our debate of this point the last meeting. The house of Austria grown stronger, our friends grown weaker. The house of Austria, within 300 years, grown from the poor house of Habsburg to be the greatest house in Christendom. He accepted the Empire when the King of Bohemia refused it. The greatest, first addition was by escheat. The greatest addition of all was the match of that house with the heir of Burgundy; since, the Indies, Naples, etc., Navarre, Portugal. If we break off the treaty of the Palatinate and not the other, which of our friends abroad will believe us, [f. 39] they must go on with the other.
Dr. [Barnaby] Gooch. Not able to deliver any opinion concerning either the marriage or the Palatinate unless we consider the consequence. The consequence will be a war, whence will be effusion of Christian blood. If the war be just, who is our enemy? Not possible to recover the Palatinate. The quarrel is [blank]. His armies won the Palatinate, his armies keep it. The Prince Elector has a just quarrel against him that dispossessed him of his country. Though for mine own part, I am persuaded the war will be just, yet fit to debate that point.
Sir Robert Killigrew. The business in hand is the treaty of the match, therefore go on to that.
Sir Edward Coke. We are not yet to treat of war, but etc. The King has asked our advice, not our opinion. In advice, there must be a demonstration of the grounds whereupon we ground our advice. So too the occasions of breaking the match. The King of Spain is a great king, yet I hope we shall not fear him. [f. 39v] Yet England had the precedency at the Council of Constance, 1614 [sic]. King Philip, when he was to marry with Queen Mary, both being of one religion, the articles were:
- 1. No Spaniard should have any benefice or spiritual promotion in England.
- 2. No Spaniard should have any office of honour or judicature.
- 3. No grant to be made of land-annuity to any Spaniard, etc.
- 4. The government was to be in the Queen and her Council, and the King only to assist her. Question, whether if any should kill; therefore an act made 25 E. 3, 2 King 29.
- 5. He should not have the custom of England or alienate any law.
- 6. No Spaniard should offer wrong or injury to an Englishman.
- 7. If they had any children between them, they should not go into Spain without consent of the nobility, etc.
The writ of parliament: de arduis et urgentibus nos, statum, et defensionem regni nostri et ecclesiae anglicanae concernentibus. Arduis are difficult things; urgent, those that require a speedy resolution; nos, concerning the King and his royal issue; et statum regni, how the land itself may subsist; et defensionem, how to keep off the enemy. In H. 5['s] time, those words ecclesiae anglicanae concernentibus came in.
[f. 40] Mr. [Christopher] Brooke. Reasons against continuing the treaty:
- 1. It will be a great discouragement to the princes of Germany. The Spaniard has gotten a free passage from Italy to the Low Countries.
- 2. We shall discomfort our friends and neighbours, the Hollanders, the bulwark of Christendom. God found out an handful of Hollanders to exhaust all his treasures.
- 3. If the Spaniard should prevail over them, we shall be the next morsel.
- 4. The deluding of the Prince.
- 5. Religion, none love the Spanish papists but English papists.
The Speaker going to the chair.
To give advice to his Majesty no longer to continue the treaty of the marriage and the Palatinate, but to break off both.
Resolved by question, nullo contradicente.
A select committee appointed.
XIV. JOURNAL OF SIR SIMONDS D'EWES, BL, HARL. MS 159
March 10, Monday
An act for the naturalizing of David Stanniere, and another for Jacques de Best.
A motion to thank Dr. [Isaac] Bargrave, the preacher, for his sermon and to entreat him to enlarge himself upon some points and to print his sermon.
An act for the repealing of a branch of a statute made anno 34 Hen. 8 about the principality of Wales.
An act for further reformation of jeofails.
An act for relief of patentees, tenants and farmers of Duchy land or crown land in cases of forfeitures for not paying the rent at the set day.
An act to admit the subject to plead the general issue in case of information of intrusion in the behalf of the King's Majesty and staying of possession until proof made. Read again, March 40.
Then was debated the main business, about the breaking of further treaty with the King of Spain.
Religion was therein at stake, which who would not labour to save [f. 63] ought to look to be saved by it. Assistance to be given to the States or they would be lost, and we in them. The preserving of the jewels of the crown, the Queen of Bohemia and her children now among them. Our friends disheartened abroad, Germany disunited, the Hollanders beleaguered, the Protestants in France disarmed and suppressed, our enemies at home grew insolent. To advise his Majesty to break with Spain in both treaties, and to enter the confederation of his friends abroad, to secure Ireland, to man out his fleet speedily, to discover and divert what might infest him, assist the Low Countries really and roundly, and to attempt the recovery of the Palatinate by diversion nearer home.
What was lest by prejudicial treaties must be recovered now by a manly English way. The last Prince of Wales that was in Spain was victorious, so no doubt this would be. The treaties, if they should proceed, are not likely to succeed. This treaty has been the best army that ever Spain and the house of Austria had; they have got more and we have lost more by it, our friends abroad and ourselves at home and almost our peace broken with God by it. Spain is the great wheel against us, their arms joined with the Emperor and got the Palatinate and hold it; they did never intend any restitution of it and, as wise men, they never could. Spain and Rome joined in it for the advancing of the Catholic cause. The court of Rome was in the council of Spain and the council of Spain in the court of Rome.
Those treaties are against religion and the honour of the King and the security of the state.
Their tenet is that no faith is to be held with us, ergo why should [f. 63v] we treat with them? They have altered their portion to a pension and a few jewels, which, if they were answerable to the rest of their proceedings, are counterfeit.
So it is time to be in action, to do rather than to speak. Raise moneys from the recusants that have caused it, take the penalties of the law against them.
A message from the Lords: to join with them to clear the Duke of Buckingham from aspersion of speech towards the person of the King of Spain.
Committee was appointed. The issue was that, in the judgement of both Houses generally, he had deserved honour and thanks of the 2 Houses and the whole kingdom.
Another message from the Lords: to confer the next day at Whitehall about the great business of breaking the treaties.
SIR EDWARD CECIL moved for every man to wear his sword.
A message from the King by his two Secretaries: not to be too apt to receive petitions against the Lord Keeper. For the second that then were come in, he should answer them; for errors in the law, they must bear with him as not being bred in it. But if they found corruption, let them not spare him.
Then went they to the main debate again.
SIR EDWIN SANDYS. As he would not come that so he would deceive his Prince's commands, ergo, speak to what was demanded without any scanning of the consequence of it as yet, but punctually, as concerning the treaty, whether it should continue or no. Ambassadors and treaties are called by the Italian the Spaniards' gain, and sure he had either beaten us at it or at least left us but the after gain.
So they pitched upon 2 points: first, a resolution what [f. 66] answer should be given; second, the reasons of that resolution.
Report of the committee with the Lords for the clearing of the Duke of Buckingham. 12 of the Lords and 24 of the Lower House appointed to deliver the opinion of both Houses concerning what he had delivered, which might touch the King of Spain.
A motion to respite answer to the King's message about the Lord Keeper until this great business were over.
An order that the Clerks shall not put any man's name to what he moved in the House because divers had been clapped afterwards with the ferulam, and being further debated, it was referred to the consideration of the committee of privileges.
Notice was given unto the House of four tall ships, now in the river, ready bound for the East Indies, wherein were 1,000 mariners, 800 barrels of powder, with other furniture proportionable, whereof the kingdom might now have need. Motion for their stay. Notice given also of the general decay of mariners in the western parts.
For the 4 ships, it was said they were very well provided and better than ordinary, but the reason was because that merchants had lately received advice of 8 galleons and 2 carracks that had waylaid them, and (ergo) both for the honour of the nation and safety of themselves, they did it.
A committee of the whole House appointed that afternoon to debate this main business further and prepare it for the meeting of the Lords the next day.
[Afternoon, committee of the Whole House]
[f. 66v] At that committee, many indirect proceedings of the Spaniards were laid open, touching both our own and other states.
Dr. [Barnaby] Gooch only supposed this war not lawful on our parts with Spain. The Palatinate indeed, said he, has a just cause of war with Spain, but not England. My friend's quarrel is not mine. Besides, he pressed other wants of provision for a war, that we could not maintain it, no not one day, we were so unfurnished.
Mr. [Francis] Brakin [sic] gave 4 reasons why these treaties should break:
- 1. Because they were a great discomfort to all reformed churches abroad, particularly to Germany, which was almost lost since they were on foot.
- 2. The Hollanders were pressed and penned in with all the force the enemy could make, which was of dangerous consequence to us; if they be subdued, their strength is like to be turned upon us.
- 3. In regard of the personal indignities offered to the Prince.
- 4. In regard of our difference in religion, which was and would be daily more endangered by them. It was observed that neither Italian nor French nor any papist loved the Spaniard, save only an English papist, and it was much admired and might cause us to be the more careful of it.
These treaties increase and fortify a party at home within our own bowels. Besides, they prejudice the regaining of the Palatinate and it were dishonourable to have it restored by treaty, which yet was not likely to be yielded to.
So it was resolved by question, nullo contradicente, to advise his Majesty to break both the treaties, and a committee [f. 67] of 12 appointed to fortify this opinion with reasons.