East Indies: November 1624, 22-29

Calendar of State Papers Colonial, East Indies, China and Japan, Volume 4, 1622-1624. Originally published by Her Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1878.

This free content was digitised by double rekeying. All rights reserved.


'East Indies: November 1624, 22-29', in Calendar of State Papers Colonial, East Indies, China and Japan, Volume 4, 1622-1624, ed. W Noel Sainsbury( London, 1878), British History Online https://www.british-history.ac.uk/cal-state-papers/colonial/east-indies-china-japan/vol4/pp448-457 [accessed 22 July 2024].

'East Indies: November 1624, 22-29', in Calendar of State Papers Colonial, East Indies, China and Japan, Volume 4, 1622-1624. Edited by W Noel Sainsbury( London, 1878), British History Online, accessed July 22, 2024, https://www.british-history.ac.uk/cal-state-papers/colonial/east-indies-china-japan/vol4/pp448-457.

"East Indies: November 1624, 22-29". Calendar of State Papers Colonial, East Indies, China and Japan, Volume 4, 1622-1624. Ed. W Noel Sainsbury(London, 1878), , British History Online. Web. 22 July 2024. https://www.british-history.ac.uk/cal-state-papers/colonial/east-indies-china-japan/vol4/pp448-457.

Nov 1624, 22-29

Nov. 22–24. 687. Court Minutes of the East India Company. Report of John Yonge who had returned from attending upon his Majesty at Newmarket, of the "noble usage" he had received from Mr. Secretary, from whom he delivered a letter to the Lord Ambassador with the States, expressing his Majesty being unsatisfied with what he had received in excuse of the fact of Amboyna, with signification that his Majesty purposes to pursue his former resolution for stay of the Dutch Company's ships, which letter gave much content to the Company, and they resolved to send Yonge as an express with said packet to the Hague, and also a letter "conceived by direction of this Court" to the said Lord Ambassador. Wm. Culpepper having sent over from Danzig for the Company 190 barrells of gunpowder and 25 "fatts" of saltpetre; ordered that the Council of War be petitioned for leave to Mr. Evelyn to make the saltpetre into powder for the Company's use. Petition read from Capt. Greene that the Company would hear and end his case; resolved to refer it to Sir Henry Marten to be heard judicially, the Court having always found Sir Henry to be a man of great integrity, and ever ready to hearken to the Company in their just desires, and being confident that they shall show good matter against Capt. Greene, both for the lavish expense of the Company's money and his lascivious and riotous life. Report that upon the hearing of Bate's business, Sir Henry Marten seemed inclined to give Bate something; resolved to send again to Sir Henry concerning both these businesses. The bond of John Millward, factor, deceased, to be cancelled. Acknowledgment of Mr. Misselden, "in a most thankful expression," of the gratification bestowed on him, and offer of further service; he was desired to cast an eye upon their present business with my Lord Ambassador at the Hague, and to bestow his letters on the Company as there shall be occasion.
Nov. 24.—Draught of the Company's answer to Symonson's suit in Chancery, concerning timber bought in Ireland, read by Tichborne. Warrant to be prepared for payment of the money forthwith into Chancery concerning Mrs. Wickham. Concerning the value of gold in the Indies, Geo. Robinson to be warned to give satisfaction therein. Consideration on the choice of a fit man to go admiral for Surat; that Captain Blythe is a very able and discreet man, that he had the love of all his men aboard, and had been victorious against the Portugals; a committee were therefore entreated to confer with him, and if better conditions cannot be had, to entertain him at the rate he propounded, provided he be surely bound from private trade. Resolved to refer Henry Bate's business wholly to Sir Henry Marten, and to proceed against Capt. Greene in a legal course. Report of Messrs. Bell and Munnes that on Thursday last they had attended Sec. Conway and the Lord Duke at Newmarket to desire that he would put in execution what had been resolved at Hampton Court concerning the arrest of the Dutch East India ships upon the Narrow Seas, forasmuch as the Dutch do not apply themselves to give any satisfaction for the outrageous murder at Amboyna, but rather add to that wickedness by justifying the fact under a pretence of justice, that there may be a supply of ships in the Narrow Seas fit for such a service, as the Dutch are to come with a strength of seven or eight ships well appointed. Mr. Secretary made answer that it was true the force of shipping upon the Narrow Seas was not sufficient to encounter the Dutch East India fleet, which, he understands, doth resolve to fight, but this must be made a business of State, and demanded what the Company can do. Their answer was that unless protected, the Company must leave this trade; if they were, they will go on with it. Mr. Secretary said that his Majesty is not tied to any one way to right himself and his subjects; if they be not met upon the Narrow Seas he can stop their fishing upon this coast, and seize their ships at his pleasure. That they then attended my Lord Duke, and besought him to take into consideration the aforesaid facts, who answered "that he would speak with the King in it," to which they replied that upon his Majesty's royal promise of reparation and restitution from the Dutch they have and are to send out this year five or six ships; that they also resolve to fortify, and presented Capt. Fowkes, who they shall by these ships send out as commander, and they besought the Duke to procure the King's license to fortify, and to be a means that the Company may be righted, the rather because the Dutch still avow the fact of Amboyna, and ground new protests thereon, upon the report of Mareschalk, who is rather worthy of capital punishment than to be admitted a com petent witness. That they again attended Mr. Secretary, who said he had no order for them, but after attending his Majesty, said he would send the despatch after them; but not being satisfied, they again attended Mr. Secretary, when his answer was that he had order to write to Mr. Attorney to draw a grant from the King that the Company may fortify in the Indies; but they replied that this was but one branch of the Company's suit, his Majesty's promise was to see them righted; whereto Mr. Secretary said that the King's present force in the Narrow Seas is small, the Dutch come strong and resolute to fight, and for setting out any present force the King wants money, but that the King intends to arm both by sea and land, and resolveth to buoy up the reputation of the kingdom, and in the doing of that shall have means to right all; and albeit there is no possibility to right them at present upon the ships outward bound, yet it shall be done upon their ships returning; to this was answered that if they be now suffered to slip by, they will fall upon our people everywhere in the Indies, and the Company hearing this, their resolution to follow the trade will die in them. Mr. Secretary said no, there should be no cause to quench the trade, for the Dutch must do us right; but it must not be required that the State shall act things impossible, but said that matters are now brought to that pass, that the King cannot in honour deny the Company justice by way of reprisal, and rather than fail to (will) fell on their fishermen, and this not merely for the East India Company but for the honour of the King and State. Some were of opinion that the Dutch fleet, which commonly comes forth scatteringly, making the rendezvous at Cowes, may be dealt withall with safety, though the King's ships be few in number, but it was resolved that the Lord Admiral shall be attended again in a few days when he will be in town. One Edward Thornehill, a digger of saltpetre, offered to dig in the Company's warehouse in St. Mary Axe, being part of a chapel formerly consecrated to holy uses; the man was told it will be a very unfit thing, and the rather because within two years one had been buried in that place, and wished him to be well advised what he did. Report on the value of a balast ruby from Sir Thos. Roe, which the Treasurers were loath to deliver, for their respect to him that owns it; resolved to lend Sir Thos. 666l. 13s. 4d. on it, and send it to be sold on his adventure at 6s. per dollar.
Nov. 24.—Minutes of a Court to consider of the Persian Trade. Letters read from the factors there, dated the 28th March and 15th October 1623, with a postscript of 9th January following (see ante, No. 330). It was observed that the Persian had not duly observed the capitulations agreed on at the taking of Ormuz, and yet demanded further assistance against the Portugals. The questions arose whether the Dutch being now entered into that trade, would not take advantage of the English refusal to aid the Persian in his warlike designs, and thus gain from the English the reputation and benefit of that trade; also whether it be a fit or beneficial trade to be pursued or not: discussion thereon. It was further remembered that in the capitulations with the Persian, half the custom in Ormuz, which in times past yielded to Portugal 180,000 ryals per annum, by contract belongs to the English, and it was conceived that if the silk trade might be diverted from Aleppo, where the French and Italians govern the market, there might be an expectation of a profitable trade. Resolved, seeing if the English leave the trade the Dutch will by one stratagem or other, not only surprise the Castle of Ormuz, but steal away the trade, the Dutch being already encouraged to enter upon it, the English having broken the ice; and where "we trade to win by a trade, they trade to win a trade, though at present they gain nothing by it (as the Molucca trade)," to pursue the Persian trade with a moderate supply for the present, having last year given order to the same purpose, both by advice to Surat and direction to [Thos.] Kerridge. [Ten pages and a half. Court Minute Book, VII., pp. 207–217.]
Nov. 24. 688. The Governor and Committees of the East India Company to Carleton. Send copy of their last letter and enclosure [see ante, No. 684]. He will also receive Sec. Conway's packet by this bearer. Forbear to write anything concerning the same, only they could wish that Mareschalk were forthcoming, to give an account of his doings. How they are taken here, notwithstanding their impudent juglings, Carleton may perceive by Sec. Conway's letter. At this very instant there are some of our committees attending his Majesty at Newmarket, together with those very men whose testimony the Dutch in their poor reply have so much slighted, to report to his Majesty the truth of their cruelties; being ready to avow the same to the face of Mareschalk. With these ships Deputy Misselden returns to Delft, and offers to attend (Carleton) on any service of the Company. Send by this bearer 40 books of the relation concerning Amboyna, in Dutch; to take what he thinks fit. Endorsed, "Recd. the 2nd of Dec. by an express." [One page. Holland Corresp.]
Nov. 25. 689. Sec. Conway to Carleton. Acknowledges receipt of his of Nov. 6 and 7, "by which his Majesty hath not only received confirmation of your great diligence and wise guiding of the business of Amboyna, as far as lies in you, but gives his expectation leave to hope fruit of it. And you may be out of doubt it will be a great service to this kingdom, and principally to that State, to win an accommodation of that business, which otherwise will inevitably give a very great blow to that State, and possibly wound both parts dangerously; and this I must certify you that neither time nor form will put our just demands of satisfaction and justice to silence, but there must be given, or we must take, a real satisfaction and real restitution; and this that State were better to believe and prevent than neglect or despise, for it doth behove us to preserve reputation, for which the rest will up I do assure you; and it is resolved here to show good cards for it. And then what shall be done can be no more undone than that of Amboyna; and we shall be as slow to acknowledge a fault or kiss the rod as that State is, and as little fear what saint they can vow themselves unto, when it comes once to that degree where it had been before this, but for the opinion had of the wisdom of the Prince of Orange, and the providence of the good patriots of that State, the confidence had in your dexterity, and hopes given, and the blessing that State hath in the wisdom and authority of the Lord Admiral here, and his affection to them. But these can hold but to their measure. There is also the point of Greenland in which the King thinks his patience infinitely abused." [Draft. Extract from Holland Corresp.]
Nov. 26. 690. Court Minutes of the East India Company. Petition on behalf of the garblers sent to Bridewell for stealing nutmegs, for their release, but as there is a general complaint that "fair nutmegs" are sold up and down the town, and that stones, iron, and such like stuff have been put in to make weight, and that these men will not confess any more than was found about them, the Court left them to such correction as is usual. Touching the bill in Chancery against the Company by Nathan Bolt and his wife, late wife of Symonson, about timber from Ireland. Discussion on the value of the ruby belonging to Sir Thos. Roe, who values it at 1,500l. here, but at much more in the Indies; some of opinion it was worth 2,000l., that stones of that beauty bear great price in Turkey, and are much desired by the Mogul; others held it worth not above 800l.; Sir Thos. desires time to consider the offer made to him. Ordered that a surgeon be entertained for their fort, and a surgeon's chest sent thither, and two other small chests distributed unto the ships. The bread-rooms to be plated throughout. Petition of Nicholas Woodcock for his wages; he utterly denied that he made any benefit of value of such booty as was taken at Ormuz, and desired he might answer his accusers face to face. Ordered that Mr. Monnox, Capt. Blythe, and Mr. Wills be warned here. Ordered that Mr. Brown, minister of St. Helen's, of which parish this house is a part, receive 4l. of the free gift of the Company, as in former years. [Three pages and a half. Court Minute Book, VII., pp. 218–221.]
Nov. 26.
691. Barlow to Carleton. Cannot yet get the certainty concerning the qualities and behaviour of the jurates of Amboyna; only understands that some of them are such as their parents could not rule, "so did seek to have them in the 'tucht house,' but got them into the Company's service, which is a second tucht house." Most of those that were upon the jury were servants, and at the absolute command of the Governor. The Bewinthebbers since their coming out of the Hague have been very mute, and will not discover anything that hath there passed to their nearest friends. Has had speech with several, and with Boreel, and has set others to work, but can get nothing out of them, so men conclude that matters go not according to their minds. Hougens still gives hope that from Horne he shall get journals, but all the clerks are so strictly seen unto that they dare not do anything. Understands they do not furnish their ships with men or munition otherways than accustomed. The ships of this town in the Texel ready for the first wind, so there will go out a very great fleet, and divers men-of-war with them. Coen has been sick since he was chosen; wishes he would give over the voyage, for "he is a utter enemy to our nation." These do take notice of his Majesty's resolution that if they give not better content, their ships will be stayed in the Narrow Seas; the Bewinthebbers say little to it, but their friends say that matter will be stopped, so they do little fear that it will take effect. Has received from the Company copies of their men's relation, and "these their pamphlet with the answer to the same," and has disposed of them here, which doth breed a very good opinion in many. Wishes some one would put it into Dutch. Burgomaster de Vrye hath one. Their pride and insolency in the Indies is such that their own nation doth abhor it, and are ashamed to hear thereof. There is not one of them of this town in Amboyna but are men of base parentage and no education. Endorsed, "Recd the 27th." [One page and a quarter. Holland Corresp.]
Nov. 27.
692. Sir Thos. Roe to Carleton. His news of Brazil is welcome for their sakes that lost it, "but for any good we receive by the winners (witness the East India Company's proceedings) it is all one who hath it, the Devil or his Damme." Carleton lives among the Dutch, and sees their best, but Roe has tried them East and West, and knows "their bestiality and ingratitude." Free trade in the East Indies may be granted to the French. Knows India as well as any man living, and perhaps has had more universal considerations upon the whole than any Dutch captain or English factor. The King of Denmark has the same desire, but all these nations will fall upon our own Company's error to overlay trade. They all suppose by rule of arithmetic, that if 1,000l. stock did produce two, a million must produce a million. All the misunderstanding of India is to suppose there is commodity for so much shipping. Will undertake when the Dutch and we had 60 ships gaping for lading, 10 of them would have brought home all the spice and silk in the Indies, then the 50 ships that rotted, wages and charge, like Pharaoh's kine, ate up the profit of the few laden. But suppose they were to lade 40 ships yearly, where should it be vented? Is not Europe clogged, and all prices fallen, and all Indian commodities as yet become drugs? The Portugals might have taught us so much wit, when they had all the Indies to themselves, and bought up all, and burnt above half there. The gain of India is by a little stock. It may be fit for the Dutch, in respect of reason of State, to enter into that great charge, but it will undo us that are mere merchants there. Let the French trade their pleasure; they will come home, not by the Cape of Hope, but Desperation. "Your Lordship will think me out of matter to leap from Turkey to India. If I could leap home I care not if both were in the sea." [Extract from Holland Corresp.]
Nov. 29./Dec. 9.
South Lambeth.
693. Sir Noel de Caron to Sec. Conway. Is expecting daily some final answer from the States concerning the fact of Amboyna, which he hopes, in accordance with the promise given to him, will give content to his Majesty, for the business cannot remain in the state it is, and on his part he has done his best to induce them to give his Majesty satisfaction, which they will not be at their ease until they have done. [French. Extract from Holland Corresp.]
Nov. 27.
694. Sir Thos. Roe to Sir Thos. Smythe. The Portugals having left Ormuz, "settle their mark" at Balsora, to spite the Persian, and are well received of the Turks, [in a footnote] "which news approves of the necessary use of pinnaces to be sent, to aid the Persian King." Minute. [Turkish Corresp.]
Nov. 29. 695. Carleton to Sec. Conway. Since his last of the 15th, many new artifices have been used by some of the Administrators of the Dutch East India Company to draw on the time till the meeting of the States of Holland, at which Burgomaster Bas and pensioner Paw, two ringleaders of the College of Administrators and Deputies for Amsterdam, might with more authority stand for the rest. The States' resolution finally is to have the Governor of Amboyna, and all who had a hand in the execution of the English there, brought hither prisoners to answer their fact and stand to the States' judgment. For the rest, that their men should live with ours according to the treaty. Arguments that were used concerning the three points Carleton had recommended to the States before it was resolved to carry this business, by way of a letter to his Majesty, a conceipt whereof was brought to Carleton by two of their deputies, M. Aerssen being one, who desired Carleton to accompany their letter to his Majesty with his testimony of the reality of their proceedings and intervention for his favour. Told them their letter would no ways give satisfaction, because the treaty had been too much infringed by the Dutch to be any more obligatory to the English, who had made their solemn protest against any further observation thereof. Further arguments, which finally ended in their promise to relate to the States what he had said to them, which they did very faithfully, and this morning again hath been wholly spent in consultation, for which they have appointed tomorrow likewise. Carleton now insists both for joint examination of the proceedings in Amboyna and liberty for the English to build places apart and have residences separate from the Dutch, which have met with strong opposition and many objections from Bas and Paw; but the true reasons are that other misgovernments will be discovered, particularly the cruelty at Banda upon the Pooloroonese, out of hatred to the English; and that the hatred borne to the Dutch by all the Indians will draw the whole trade to the English. Fears of the Dutch Administrators that their power with the States may be lost and their eyes opened, so as both against the States and their Company, though they dispute to the uttermost, they dare not stand out. This is the true state of the business, to the best of Carleton's judgment. Leaves it to his Majesty's wonted wisdom whether it be now a fit season to pursue the quarrel, or rather to embrace reconcilement for the present by admitting what may be had of them; for when all is reckoned by an actual breach, both parties will be found losers. Will lose nothing for asking and urging, and withal keeping this wound of Amboyna open, by which their malignant humours will be purged, and they brought in time to a good state of living with their associates. Five ships of Amsterdam are in the Texel, and will take the benefit of the first settled wind, in company with the fleet of Brazil of about 30 sail, and some men of war to convoy them past the coast of Spain. General Coen lies sick at Amsterdam. Draft, with corrections by Carleton. [Twelve pages. Holland Corresp.]. Incloses,
695. I. "Project of a letter from the States to his Majesty. They had hoped that his Majesty, recognising their sincere intentions, would have conceded to them a competent time to inform themselves in the Indies, so that they might proceed with full knowledge of the cause of this affair (of Amboyna); but seeing that his Majesty persists in pressing for justification (in the margin, "or reparation,") and in testifying such a lively sensibility of the execution already done, as in case of any further delay to be ready to do right with his own hands, by ways little suitable to the amity with which up to the present his Majesty has honoured their Republic; they have chosen rather to neglect their own and pass over all forms and other considerations of state and justice, in order, if possible, to consult his Majesty alone, so as to put a stop to these contentions and the suspicion his Majesty seems to have that they are backward in doing indifferent justice. Therefore they have given express command to the Administrators of their Company, that all those who have been at the trial, sentence, and execution at Amboyna should be sent over as soon as possible, under sure guard, and delivered into their hands to answer for their proceedings, and await judgment; for their resolution is to proceed in good faith and to do justice in all things. With this they trust his Majesty will be content. And whereas upon some distrust the English Company have besought his Majesty to propose three things to them for the safety of their persons, goods, and trade for the future; having well examined them, the States consider that they partly tend to the dissolution of the treaty which his Majesty with so much wisdom and patience made with the two Companies, to which they do not consider it expedient for his Majesty to give way, lest that trade should return to its first confusion and ruin. They have passionately admonished and seriously commanded their own men to keep within the bounds of the treaty and punctually to fulfil all its conditions, and to live with his Majesty's subjects in all sincere amity; and touching the complaints on both sides of the many infractions of the treaty that they should be speedily regulated, and in case they cannot agree, his Majesty and the States will provide for them in such sort as shall be thought necessary and expedient for their common good. They hope his Majesty will accordingly exhort his subjects to contribute on their side their best means, and endeavour to cause these misunderstandings to cease, and live with all their men (the Dutch) hereafter in good concord. The Hague, 1624, Nov. 16/26. Endorsed by Carleton, "Brought unto me by Mons. Feyte and Mons. Aerssen, the 5 Dec. 1624." French. [Two pages and a half. Holland Corresp.]
Nov. ? 696. Memorial of despatches necessary to be written by the States General touching the affairs of the East Indies. A letter to the Governor General commanding him to take information of all that has happened in the act of Amboyna, jointly with such English as his Majesty shall depute for that purpose, and to send said informations in duplicate in closed letters, one to his Majesty and the other to the States. A letter (or three separate ones) touching the three points required in the memorial of the Ambassador, with express and earnest command to the Governor General and those in authority in the Indies of the Flemish Company, on all other occasions to behave, negotiate, and live with the English in friendship and as good allies, so that liberty of trade may not be interrupted, but rather advanced to the utmost. Of the said letters the Ambassador [Carleton] desires to have authentic copies, so as to give more particular satisfaction to his Majesty and to such Lords of his Privy Council as he has specially committed this business to. French. In Carleton's hand. [Two pages. Holland Corresp.]
Nov.? 697. "Project of a reglement to be betwixt the English East Indian merchants and the Dutch, made by the Bewinthebbers of Amsterdam." 1. The English East India Company shall be permitted to retreat, whensoever they shall think it good, with their goods (first paying their commercial debts or other special contracts) out of the places and forts which acknowledge the authority of the States General, and are possessed by the Company of these provinces in the Indies, without paying any rights of customs and tolls, or anything of that nature. 2. In all places belonging to those of the Company of these provinces in the Indies, whatever differences may grow or offences be committed between English and English not being subjects in the Company of these provinces, said differences shall be decided, as well as offences under their jurisdiction, by the superiors of the English nation alone, without the judges of the Company of these provinces being able to interfere. But in mixed causes between the English and those of these provinces, their subjects or free Indians or other persons passing or trafficking in places belonging to the Company of these provinces, the authority and jurisdiction shall be in and shall remain with the ordinary judges of the said places as before, in such manner, nevertheless, that by the said judges shall then be required, and chosen [assumez ?] two or three English to take cognisance thereof and adjudicate jointly with them, if there be as many English found on the spot; but that in any case the said assistants (adjoints) are not to exceed in number the third of the said ordinary judges. And this shall also be done, vice versâ, in places belonging to the English Company where in causes of the like nature those of the United Provinces shall enjoy the same rights as are allowed to the English in their said places. 3. The English Company shall be able to build in the said Indies forts and fortresses in all places wheresoever they shall think fit, provided they be not in the isles or provinces of the Moluccas, Amboyna or Banda, nor in any other places or countries under the jurisdiction or on the land belonging to the Company of the United Provinces, or where said Company has the right of protection or of exclusive contracts; and under any circumstance that the said new forts be not built within 10 German leagues or 30 English miles of the forts or fortresses belonging to the Company of the United Provinces; and in the same way, vice versâ, it shall be permitted to those of the Company of the United Provinces as to the English. French. This was probably the first draught of the "Project" submitted to Carleton in reply to the three articles proposed by him, but it was materially altered before being approved by Carleton and transmitted by the States General to Sec. Conway on 19/29 Dec. See No. 71/31. [One page and a half. Holland Corresp.]