Spain: June 1525, 1-15

Pages 182-200

Calendar of State Papers, Spain, Volume 3 Part 1, 1525-1526. Originally published by Her Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1873.

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June 1525, 1-15

6 June. 105. Jehan de le Sauch to Count Hoochstraete.
K. u. K. Haus-
Hof.- u. Staats Arch.
Wien. Rep. P. C.
Fasc. 223. No. 79.
Has received two letters of his: one in the handwriting of Maistre Leonart, dated the 28th May; the other in that of Maistre Rolland, of the 1st instant; the intelligence conveyed in the former being that Commander Spinaloza (Peñalosa) had arrived two days before [at Brussels], and had brought nothing very important, but that Richart [Boullengier], the courier, was shortly expected with the rest of the despatches and instructions.
That of the 1st was to inform him (Le Sauch) that his letters by Richart had been duly received, and that the Commissioners would soon hear by Commander Spinaloza (Peñalosa) what were the Emperor's wishes and orders respecting the pending negotiations. He (Le Sauch) was to have patience, and remain at his post until his successor should be appointed.
The Commander arrived in London yesterday, the 5th instant, when he exhibited the orders and instructions whereof he was bearer, and communicated verbally what he knew on the subject. He seems to be a worthy, wise and experienced man. In answer to his (Hoochstraete's) former letter, he (Le Sauch) begs leave to observe that wherever he has been it has always been his habit unreservedly to state his opinion in writing on all matters relating to the Emperor's service and that of Madame's. Persevering, therefore, in that practice, he now offers the following remarks:—
And, firstly, Richart, the courier, passed through this capital, as he (Hoochstraete) must have been informed by the Commissioners' joint letter to Madame [Margaret]; their first duty being to transcribe for their own use the instructions he brought for Mons, de Praet or whoever should fill his place, and for Commander Spinaloza (Peñalosa). They next called on the Cardinal to tell him of Richart's arrival, and to inform him how it was that they were unable to communicate the nature and bearing of his despatches, because in the first place the said Mons. de Praet was absent, and the Commander not yet arrived; and, secondly, because the letters and instructions being in cipher, and they (the Commissioners) not having by them a deciphering key, the papers had been sent home, there to be made out and transcribed.
Yesterday, after dinner, Commander Peñalosa arrived, and gave the Commissioners two letters from Madame, dated respectively the 31st of May and 1st of June, together with the instructions already deciphered, which the said Peñalosa proceeded to explain in the best manner he could, throwing light on many points that were ambiguous and obscure.
Respecting the Commander's mission and instructions described in Count de Hoochstraete's first letter of the 28th as being unimportant, he (Le Sauch) is of a contrary opinion, believing, as he does, that the continuance of the friendship between His Imperial Majesty and this King or the total estrangement and mistrust of those Sovereigns entirely depends on the said instructions and the manner of working them. He (Le Sauch) need scarcely point out the inconvenience that might arise in case of mutual mistrust, for the King [of England] would not accept out offers but with great reluctance and in an extremity, whereas, if he refuses, there is no saying what harm may be done to our interests, and how the Emperor may take such a change in their mutual and hitherto amicable relations.
That is the reason why he (Le Sauch), with all due deference to the Count's superior wisdom, and out of regard and affection for him, takes the present opportunity to declare that Madame's despatch, brought by the said Commander Peñalosa, is of the utmost importance at the present time; for it would seem as if those who drew it up found it as unimportant in its bearing as Count de Hoochstraete himself, or else that they have allowed Peñalosa to come [to England] without such private orders and instructions for the Commissioners as might ensure the success of the negotiations, leaving the said Commissioners to act as best they could in an almost hopeless business. For not one word is said in the despatch concerning the 3,000 horse and 3,000 foot, and whether, in case of this King wanting, as he undoubtedly does, to land on the coast of Normandy, they are to serve in that quarter, although the Emperor's intention, as expressed in the instructions brought by Richart, seems to be that they should go thither. The Commissioners want to know, besides, whether, in case of the expedition to Normandy being resolved upon, Madame is in a position to equip and send the said troops within one month or six weeks' time. On neither of these particulars has Commander Peñalosa been able to enlighten the Commissioners, his instructions being on this point at once vague and contradictory, as Count de Hoochstraete may judge by the enclosed copy of the same.
The Commissioners having besides inquired from the said Commander Peñalosa what security the Emperor was ready to offer in case this King consented to lend him money, his answer was that the Emperor or Madame in his name would certainly make ample provision for tho time. But, as this King and Legate, in the event—very doubtful indeed—of their granting any pecuniary aid, will require something more substantial as a security than the above vague promises; as the Commissioners, moreover, have not been informed whether this subject has been discussed or not [at Brussels], it is quite evident that they cannot possibly conclude anything for want of proper instructions.
Nothing is said in the letter about their remaining in this capital or returning home, nor whether their resolution [to remain] has been approved of at Court. They (the Commissioners) have acted for the best, and therefore ought to have been told whether their stay in England was agreeable to Madame or not. Nor have (the Commissioners) been informed of the arrival in the Low Countries of an agent of the Regent of France, who left this capital on a mission to Madame Margaret under a safe-conduct [issued by them]. Nor of a special messenger having been sent to the Emperor according to promise, although the said Commissioners in common, and Le Sauch in particular, were charged to acquaint the King and Legate with the fact.
With regard to the fisheries, he (Le Sauch) has no hope whatever of matters being settled according to Madame's wishes. The Commissioners have done all they could, insisting upon their former proposals, but have found the King more reluctant even and more obstinate in his views than the Legate himself.
Respecting the safe-conducts, the inspeximus of which have been delayed until all should come at once, it must be observed that the Legate is quite ready to exhibit his, and that if we happen to have issued more on our side than he (the Cardinal) has [in England], he is sure to ask for an equalisation of the said safe-conducts, in which case it will be of no real advantage to us to present a larger number.
Before Mons. de Praet left this town, the Commissioners asked him for the deciphering key. He told them that his secretary, Matthieu, who knew it by heart, remained in town, and they could apply to him for it. But after his return from Dover, when, as advised in a late despatch, he would not quit England without a safe-conduct from the King, but ultimately went away, the said secretary [Matthieu] accompanied him, and carried away the deciphering key, which has not yet been returned. Should any new despatch in cipher come from the Emperor, either respecting the missions entrusted to Praet and Peñalosa, or that of Mons. de Silly (Cilly), or Mons. du Rœulx, all of whom must have reached the Imperial court by this time—the Commissioners will be obliged to send it [to Brussels] to be made out, whereby much precious time will be lost, and the Commissioners prevented from returning home, as they have been ordered to do. The King and the Legate wish for it, as the President (Laurens) must already have advised—and likewise are very anxious that a new Imperial ambassador should be appointed to succeed Mons. de Praet in his charge. If, therefore, no provision is made, Madame and her councillors must take the consequences, for it is not to be presumed that he (Le Sauch) will be ordered to fill an office for which he is not properly qualified, and in which he can be of no earthly use, either to the Emperor or to Madame, besides running the risk of being shamefully dismissed, as Praet was.
Yesterday, after hearing what Commander Spinaloza (Peñalosa) had to say, the Commissioners sent Captain Quiot (fn. n1) to Winesore (Windsor), where the Court is at present residing, to ask for an audience. They are waiting for an answer, but fancy that they will not be able to see the King and Legate before next Thursday, the Pope's ambassador having been summoned yesterday to listen to certain overtures of the Venetians.
He (Le Sauch) cannot guess how this mission of Commander Peñalosa will end, but believes it to be of the greatest importance. In his opinion, whoever is appointed to conduct the negotiations will find it very difficult to make this people draw the sword, much more send a large army into France within one month or six weeks time. Before giving a negative answer on every point, they will try all manner of expedients to gain time and wait for the answer of their ambassadors [in Spain].
Whatever he (Le Sauch) has said in this letter must be taken in good part, and as the expression of his zeal for the Imperial service. Begs the Count to write to him and give advice if he finds it worth his while, for, in his opinion, a great responsibility has been thrown on the Commissioners' shoulders. Should negotiations turn out well, you at home will get the honour, without having given the advice. If things go wrong, it will be our fault.—London, Tuesday, the 6th of June.
P.S.—Has inquired whether there was in town any courier from Antwerp or Bruges likely to return home, and finds there is one to start to-morrow. Should have wished him to go sooner, but the messenger has promised to use all diligence and place this letter in the Count's hands. He is to receive three gold crowns for his travelling expenses.
Writes in haste, otherwise would have expatiated on the difficulty of the charge committed to his care. Finds that Commander Peñalosa is a man of probity and experience, and who talks well; but the more he compares the instructions brought by him with those of Richart, the more he finds them dissimilar and even contradictory. The former may have been modified and altered [at Brussels] for anything he (Le Sauch) knows, but the Commissioners ought to have been informed of the alteration, if any was made. They will, nevertheless, do their best, keeping as closely as possible to the letter of the instructions brought by Commander Spinaloza, following his advice and always negotiating in his presence, that they may not be charged hereafter with having omitted any of the circumstances required for the success of the negotiation. Still he (Le Sauch) insists that the Commissioners ought to have been told either to keep firm or to desist.—Date ut supra.
Signed: "Jehan de le Sauch."
Addressed: "A Monsieur, Monsieur le Comte de Hoochstraette, Gouverneur de Hollande."
French. Holograph. pp. 7.
7 June. 106. The Emperor's Requests.
K. u. K. Haus-
Hof- u. Staats Arch.
Wien. Rep. P. C.
Fasc. 223. No. 87.
The requests made in the Emperor's name to the King of England by Commander Spinalosa (Peñalosa) and other Imperial ambassadors residing in London on the 7th of June 1525:—
1st. That it be the King's pleasure to anticipate the period of time at which, according to the treaties made and concluded between the two Majesties, Royal and Imperial, the Princess Mary [his daughter] is to be given away, sending the said Princess to Spain speedily and without delay, for the reasons which the Imperial ambassadors have already stated.
2d. That it be his pleasure to deliver, as soon as possible, the dower of the said Princess, the Emperor's future wife, to be spent in the maintenance of the forces that are to invade France on the Spanish side; and to deliver also 200,000 ducats for the support of the Italian army, likewise to invade France on that frontier.
3d. In case of the refusal of the King to give away the Princess, his daughter, before the time stipulated in the treaties, to request that he will advance her dower, besides the said 200,000 ducats, in the following manner: 200,000 at once or as soon as possible, and the 400,000 remaining by monthly instalments of 100,000 each.
4th. Should His Majesty the King make difficulties about furnishing the said sum of money, he is to be requested to give it as a loan, and if the amount should seem excessive, to grant at least 400,000 as follows: 200,000 at a short date, and the remainder in the two ensuing months, at the rate of 100,000 each, but without any deduction from the said amount being made, in consideration of the sums which the said King maintains are owed to him by the Emperor, who, moreover, will offer such securities and pledges for the same as the King may reasonably demand.
5th. That upon the grant of all or any of the above requests, the Emperor engages to invade France from Spain with a powerful force, whilst his Italian army, or part of it, will join him within the French territory and wherever it may be deemed most convenient or advisable.
6th. In order that the kingdom of France may be assailed on all sides, the Emperor requests his brother and ally, the King of England, to cross over with a powerful army, which he (the Emperor) offers to reinforce with 3,000 horse and as many foot, to be raised in the Low Countries and maintained at his expense according to the offers already made by Madame.
Indorsed: "Double du billiet baillé par les ambassadeurs de l'Empereur."
French. Contemporary copy. pp. 2.
7 June. 107. Pope Clement VII. to the Emperor.
S. Pat. Re. Bul.
Suel. L. 1. f. 117.
In consequence of the troubles in Germany, "quæ fere tota illis impiis Lutheranæ pestilentiæ seminibus perturbata est," and of letters received from Archduke Ferdinand, asking him for assistance in money, he (the Pope) has resolved, notwithstanding these miserable times (in his miseris et afflictis sedis Apostolicæ temporibus), to send him a certain sum, as his Nuncio Baldassar Castiglione will inform him. Exhorts him to employ all his efforts to prevent the spreading of heresy.—Datum Romæ, etc., 7 June 1525.
Addressed: "Carrissimo in Christo filio nostro Carolo, Electo Imperatori, Hispaniarum Rege Catholico."
Latin. Original. p. 1½.
8 June? 108. Proposals for a League made to the Emperor by the Papal Nuncio in the Pope's name. Emperor's Answer to them.
S. E. L. 4, 12.
f. 26.
His Holiness concluded a treaty with France, not because he was animated by hostile feelings towards him (the Emperor), or because he desired to obtain personal advantages, but because he was forced to do so when the Duke of Albany was marching towards the kingdom (of Naples), and because he saw no other way to secure the dignity of the Holy See without taking up arms. The Pope hopes that he (the Emperor) approves of his conduct, and will see in the answer he (the Pope) gave through the Viceroy (of Naples) to the Duke of Sessa, and of which Peñalosa was the bearer, a certain pledge of his goodwill.
The Pope reminds him (the Emperor) of the friendship which, when still a cardinal, he always showed him. Begs him to consider that God has given him victory for no other purpose than for furthering the commonweal of Christianity. Italy is trodden under foot and suffers great calamities, but still greater dangers threaten her, and she trembles—not without reason—at the prospect of being conquered by the Turk. Implores him to conclude a league with the Holy See, the rest of the Italian Princes, and the King of England, in order to defend Italy against the attacks of the Turk. If he does so, the Pope will always favour his ascendancy.
Begs him to give his answer without delay. Approves of the proceedings against the Bishop of Zamora being carried on in Spain, but wishes the sentence to be given in Rome by him and the College of Cardinals.
The Emperor's Answer to the above proposals of the Nuncio.
1. Thanks the Pope for his congratulations on the occasion of the victory [of Pavia], which God vouchsafed, not to him alone, but to the whole of Christendom. Has always been in favour of universal peace.
2. Has, in answer to his other brief, already opened his mind to the Pope, and told him that he never suspected his good intentions. Certain of his (the Pope's) ministers have evidently much exaggerated the power of France and undervalued his own, with the intention, no doubt, of influencing him (the Pope) by unfounded fear. The consequences would have been highly detrimental, had not God Himself averted the danger.
3. Is ready to join in the undertaking of a common war against the Turk. Before being admonished by the Pope on the subject, he (the Emperor) had sent Monsieur de Rœulx to the King of France and to the Queen Regent with proposals for a cessation of hostilities between Christians, and of a war against the infidels. Expects to receive more detailed proposals upon this matter.
4. With regard to the Bishop of Zamora, the least the Pope is expected to do is to authorise his judges to employ torture in order to force him to confess his crimes.
No date. No signature.
Italian. Original draft or contemporary copy. pp. 4.
8 June. 109. The Emperor to the Duke of Sessa.
M. Re. Ac. d.
Hist. Muñoz.
A. 83. f. 261.
The King, Illustrious Duke, our Cousin, &c.—We send you herein enclosed a copy of the memorandum (escritura) (fn. n2) containing the proposals lately made by His Holiness, and which were brought to us by Joan Bartholomé de Gattinara; also what We have decided to answer to each of them. A duplicate has likewise been forwarded to our Viceroy of Naples; but as since that time affairs in Italy may have changed, and taken such a turn as to make it convenient for us to answer the said overtures differently, you will consult on the matter with the Viceroy of Naples and follow the instructions he may send you thereupon.—Toledo, 8 June 1525.
Spanish. Original draft. p. 1.
8 June. 110. The Same to the Same.
M. Re. Ac. d.
Hist. Muñoz.
T. 56. f. 262.
The King, Illustrious Duke, &c.—Your letter of the 4th May, enclosed within one of the Papal Nuncio (Castiglione) residing at this court, has come to hand. It is the first and last We have received since our last advices, and not so long and detailed as We might have wished.
Respecting the sums borrowed by you on the occasion of the threatened invasion of Naples, We have not the means of repaying them here, our Royal treasury being exhausted through continual calls, but We have written to our Viceroy to have the money paid as soon as possible from the revenues of that kingdom.
The bishopric of Mazara in Sicily We have bestowed on Antonio de Francesco, but We have assigned an annual pension of 500 ducats to Micer Agostino Folleta (Foglieta), who, as you say, is a good servant of ours.
We have appointed the Bishop of Siguença (D. Fadrique de Portugal) to be Lieutenant-General of the Principality of Catalonia and of the counties of Roussillon and Cerdaña; but as an ecclesiastic cannot exercise and apply criminal law without a dispensation from His Holiness, you will earnestly apply for a Pope's brief to that effect, and send it to the said Bishop at Barcelona, taking good care that the said brief includes also the required dispensation for proceeding against clergymen and priests (coronados), as did the one granted on a previous occasion to the late Archbishop of Saragossa.
Joan Babtista de Diviciis and his opposition to the son of Doctor Carvajal, benefice of Las Orellanas (Avellanas?), and other ecclesiastic affairs to be promoted, &c.—Toledo, 8 June 1525.
P.S.—Since the above was written a courier has arrived from Rome with letters for the Papal Nuncio residing at this our court. We are astonished that he did not bring letters from you, and know not what to think of it. Don Ugo de Moncada has also arrived with some brief notes (apuntamientos) for a peace to be concluded [between us and the French King], which notes, as it would appear at first sight, may perhaps be accepted as the basis of a treaty. Please God that they may be such as to bring on universal peace! We shall inform you of the result, that you may communicate it to His Holiness, and assure him, at the same time, that every care shall be taken of his own interests, those of the Holy See, and the house of Medici in particular.
Spanish. Original draft corrected by Gattinara. pp. 4½.
11 June. 111. The Commissioners to the Emperor.
K. u. K. Haus-
Hof.- u. Staat Arch.
Wien. Rep. P. C.
Fasc. 223.
On Thursday last, the 25th of May, as Mons. de Bevres and President (Laurens) were on the point of starting to go over to Madame, the Emperor's aunt, Richart Bollenguer (Boullengier) arrived, bringing a packet of letters from His Imperial Majesty, addressed to Mons. de Praet, and, in his absence, to the ambassador or ambassadors appointed in his room. The first piece within the enclosure was an instruction, addressed to the said Mons. de Praet, Hesdin, or any other filling his place, conjointly with Commander Spinaloza (Peñalosa), bearer of the present.
As the said instructions were mostly written in cipher, and there was no deciphering key [in London]; as both Mons. de Praet and Commander Spinaloza (Peñalosa)—to whom they were addressed—were absent from town; as the Commissioners themselves had already taken leave of the King and Cardinal to return home, leaving behind Jehan de le Sauch to represent them,—they decided to despatch the said Richart in all haste to have the said instructions deciphered [at Brussels], and bring back Madame's orders thereupon, giving the Legate proper notice of their doings, and promising to remain [in London] until the return of the said messenger.
On Monday last, the 5th instant, Commander Spinaloza (Peñalosa) arrived, bringing with him letters and papers from Spain, as well as instructions from Madame, a copy of which is herein enclosed. By the attentive perusal of which, as well as of the Commissioners' correspondence since the departure of Mons. de Silly (Cilly), His Imperial Majesty will see the progress of the negotiation.
Upon the arrival of Commander Peñalosa, the Commissioners applied for an audience of the King—then at Winesore (Windsor)—which was readily granted for Wednesday, the 7th instant, when the Commander, having presented his credentials in due form, the Commissioners began to explain the nature and object of their charge in the following manner:—
Although the Emperor was aware that an embassy was being prepared [in England] to offer him congratulations upon his last victory [on the French], as well as to devise the means of carrying on the war against the common enemy, yet, in order to gain time, he had thought it advisable to send Commander Peñalosa to declare his wishes and intentions thereupon.
And, first, the said Commander was instructed to say that the Emperor, his master, in order to satisfy his own conscience and the wish of his subjects, had sent to the French King certain worthy personages to inquire whether he was willing to make restitution of those estates and lands which he held unjustly and by usurpation. That the said personages had found but little disposition in the Regent, mother of the said King of France, to do justice to the Emperor's claims, and there was every probability of the King himself being equally ill-disposed. Such being the state of things, nothing was left to them [the King and Emperor] but to prosecute the war and follow their late good fortune. The Emperor was fully intent upon this, but found two great obstacles in his way; one was the wish of his Spanish subjects that in case of his having to lead his army into France he should leave behind him some person of equal rank and quality to afford them consolation and pleasure during his absence; the other was want of means to carry on the war. In order to provide for the two said necessities and obstacles standing in the way of his future plans, the Emperor had ordered his ambassador [Peñalosa] to request the King, in his name, to send the Princess, his daughter, as soon as possible to Spain, and remit also her dower, besides 200,000 ducats for the keeping of their common army in Italy, thereby to attack and weaken the said kingdom of France on every one of its frontiers. The said dower and ducats to be sent to Spain, without any deduction whatever on account of the sums said to be due to the King by the Emperor Maximilian and by His Imperial Majesty. Protesting at the same time that the said request was made to the King, not only as his own uncle, on the Queen's side, but as a brother, since they both belong to the same order [of the Golden Fleece], and as a father, on account of the said Princess, his daughter.
The King's answer was that, with regard to the Princess, she was too young to undertake so long a voyage by sea. He, himself, was meditating crossing over to France, and would be obliged to leave her behind during his absence. He was not bound by treaty to give her up before she was 12 years of age.
Hearing this the Commissioners replied: That the application was not made in virtue of any particular treaty, but merely as a simple request. That if the Emperor wished to have the time of her delivery anticipated, it was merely to please his Spanish subjects, that she might reside in Spain during his absence, and learn the manners and language of the people. The Princess once in Spain, his subjects of Aragon, Catalonia, Valencia, and other kingdoms would have no difficulty in granting a considerable service in money, as token of her happy arrival among them. The daily practices of the French to separate and divide their common interest would be discountenanced, as they (the French) would lose all hope of a successful defence or of contracting new alliances. An army of 10,000 men might thus cause them greater damage than one of 50,000 at any other time and under different circumstances.
When the King, who was giving audience alone, heard the above, he sent for the Legate, who was in an adjoining room, and in his presence asked: "Messieurs les Commissaires, what securities are you prepared to give us that the Emperor at the appointed time will consummate the marriage with the Princess, our daughter? If you can give us any, we shall be glad to hear them and take them into consideration."
The Commissioners' answer was they had no power to offer any, but should like to hear if the King had thought of any. To which he replied that since they (the Commissioners) had no instructions thereupon, he was unwilling to declare his mind on the subject, but had written to his ambassadors [in Spain] and sent them powers to that effect. Respecting the second difficulty, i.e., the want of means to prosecute the war, he remarked that its solution so much depended on the first that he could make no promise. He was not bound to pay any sum of money as dower to his daughter, until she had attained the age appointed for her marriage; and as to the additional 200,000 ducats, he was under no obligation whatever to furnish them.
The Commissioners replied that the money was not demanded as an obligation, but by way of such help and assistance as a father was likely to give to a son, for the mutual benefit of the parties, and to avoid the many inconveniences and dangers likely to arise if the war was not prosecuted with proper vigour, he (the Emperor) having made up his mind to invade France on the Spanish frontier as well as on the side of Italy, and compel the French to make restitution of all their usurpations from him and from the King.
The King insisted on his former negative, but promised to write to his ambassadors, and to send them instructions and powers to treat thereupon.
After which, and perceiving that the King's resolution and purpose on this point was not likely to be changed, the Commissioners proceeded to request that since he would not consent to the above proposals about the Princess and her dower, he would at least lend His Imperial Majesty 600,000 ducats, namely, 200,000 now and 400,000 more in four months at the rate of 100,000 each month.
Upon which the King said he wondered much how the Commissioners dared put forward such pretensions, knowing, as they ought to know, that the Emperor owed him large sums already, not only on account of the promised indemnity, but also on account of money borrowed at various times, such as 150,000 gold cr. lent to him on his (fn. n3) last visit [to England], and for which the Legate had become security. If the Emperor first paid such debts as these, he (the King) would have no objection to treat for the remainder; otherwise he would not hear of it.
Their reply was that they did not deny the Emperor being his debtor to a certain amount, but he had been unable through circumstances and press of work to attend to the payment of his debt. The King, however, had lost nothing by it, since the money having been employed to cover the expenses of the war, the Emperor had by his last victory delivered him of the greatest enemy he ever had, and put him in a situation to recover all the land which the said King of France had taken from him.
The King replied that the sum was excessive, and that in reality he had not the means of advancing it. Upon which the Commissioners withdrew from his presence, and went away. Before returning to London they again saw the King, and in conformity with the last article of their instructions, asked him if he would lend the Emperor 400,000 ducats, one half down, and the other half two months after. Upon the receipt of the said sum the Emperor pledged himself to invade France personally from the side of the Pyrenees, and to send thither the whole of his Italian army or part of it to join the English force wherever it might be deemed convenient, begging the King to cross over with a numerous and well-appointed army, to which would be added, at the Emperor's own expense, 3,000 horse and as many foot which Madame, his aunt, had agreed to send under his good pleasure. "What security are you disposed to give us for the said 400,000 ducats?" said the King.
"Let your Majesty declare his readiness to lend that sum to the Emperor, and any reasonable securities demanded shall be forthcoming." But such declaration the King would never make, and he concluded by saying: "I cannot lend that money, nor cross over in person, as required. Besides, the Emperor has not fulfilled the conditions of the treaty of Windsor, for he was to have crossed the frontier at the end of May, and we are now in June."
After taxing the King with negligence and with not crossing over in time, showing that he was nowise prevented by war or business in any other quarter, and after the Commissioners had fairly proved with many an argument that it was not the Emperor's fault if France had not been invaded already, since he had to leave his army in Italy up to the present day, which army required 120,000 ducats monthly for its maintenance; after they had earnestly requested him to give some hope, and not to allow them to depart under the impression of such a refusal, the King proposed that the petitions just made should be put down in writing, promising shortly to send a messenger to his ambassador [in Spain] with suitable instructions to treat on the whole; adding that it was needful to discuss again the manner and time of the invasion, with what force, and on which side, since the period fixed by the Windsor capitulation had already expired.
Perceiving that by the last article but one in their instructions the Commissioners were ordered to put forward this very point which the King had by anticipation denied, notwithstanding all their representations; considering also that the King could not return an answer to their applications unless he saw them in writing; and, lastly, that the powers which he offers to send to his ambassadors [in Spain] might not agree with their own demands and offers—unless properly detailed and specified—the Commissioners agreed to draw up a memorandum of the same, which they have since placed in the King's hand.
After the above conference the Commissioners again requested the King to order his captains at sea and other officers to keep and observe any safe-conducts that His Imperial Majesty or Madame might have granted to the French for fishing purposes, as well as for conveying salt and other merchandise to the said Low Countries, as by doing so the Emperor's subjects might obtain similar safe-conducts from the French and be thereby benefited. This request the King again refused to grant, but referred the Commissioners to the Legate, adding they might discuss the point together at a future interview.
The above conference was held in the Council Chamber, where the Cardinal, the Dukes of Norfolk and Suffolk, the Marquis [of Dorset], Maistres Talbot, Boullant (Boleyn), and others were sitting. The King was in an adjoining room, whence he occasionally came in and out, as if to communicate and consult on the above matters with his privy councillors.
Following the King's orders, the next day the Commissioners called on the Legate to treat and discuss with him the affair of the safe-conducts. After a good deal of discussion, and many arguments pro and con, the Cardinal said to the Commissioners: "Since the Emperor cannot make war for want of means, or from other causes, it would be better for him to find some expedient by means of which both he and the King, my master, might recover what is their own." The Commissioners having begged him to explain himself, he continued: "If the French King consented to give us Picardy, Normandy, Guienne and Aquitaine in entire suzerainty, and give the Emperor Burgundy, Tournay and Hesdin, besides the suzerainty of Flanders and Artois, I fancy that the offer might be accepted as reasonable. Having inquired afterwards what was to be done with Mons. de Bourbon, the Cardinal said: "He might have the county of Ast, and the King of France's sister in marriage, for I can hardly believe that the dowager Queen of Portugal, the Emperor's sister, would have him for a husband. Or he might have the duchy of Milan, on condition of paying 100,000 ducats annual subsidy to the Emperor; and he might renounce all his French property in favour of the Prince of Bearn, now a prisoner in your hands, as a compensation for his pretended rights to the crown of Navarre." "Should the above conditions not be obtained, what remedy does the Cardinal propose to apply?" "War, nothing but war, in order to obtain by force what we cannot get by fair means." "Is the King of England willing personally to invade France?" "He is, provided the Emperor himself does the same on his side, but not otherwise." "The Emperor is quite ready, if the King will only lend him the aforesaid 400,000 ducats." But on the Legate declaring that it was not in the King's power to do that, and perceiving that all attempts to bring him to any change of opinion would be vain, the Commissioners came to the same conclusion taken with the King the day before.
After which the Commissioners having conferred with the Legate respecting the fisheries and the safe-conducts, the following declaration was obtained: The King will command his officers at sea to keep and observe all safe-conducts that His Imperial Majesty or Madame, his aunt, may have granted or may henceforwards grant to the French for the purpose of fishing and conveying salt to the Low Countries, on condition, however, that the English money shall be properly valued and taken at the same rate there as in his own kingdom, and not otherwise. The Commissioners answered: They had no special powers to treat respecting the value of coin, but would shortly write home for instructions, at the same time requesting the Cardinal to write to the English ambassadors [in Brussels], that they might also bring the subject under consideration and obtain a decision thereupon. This the Cardinal promised to do, not without having first proposed several expedients, which, he said, would be more useful and acceptable than the former, and among the rest the two following ones, which he explained in the presence of the said Dukes of Norfolk and Suffolk and other privy councillors there present.
The first expedient proposed was complete cessation from war by sea between the Emperor's subjects of the Low Countries, the French and the English. The other was to give and receive general safe-conducts for the conveyance of all merchandise—not forbidden—as well as for catching herrings and other fish; on condition, however, that the French were not to be allowed to visit the ports of Flanders and England, or land on the coast, except for the purpose of fishing or transporting salt. If the Commissioners agreed to treat on either basis, he (the Cardinal) was willing to enter into a negotiation.
The Commissioners' answer was, as above, that they had no power to treat either of a suspension of hostilities by sea, as proposed, or of the reduction of the currency, but would take the earliest opportunity to refer home for advice. Hearing which the Legate replied: "Then, if that be the case, the King, my master, will send full powers to his ambassadors [in the Low Countries] to treat on this affair, if Madame will consent to it."
The Cardinal then, in the presence of the aforesaid noble men and councillors, began to complain of the little justice done to the English in certain maritime towns where they chiefly resided, or before the councils (consaulx) and courts of justice in the Emperor's dominions. The Commissioners gave a suitable answer to such accusations by asserting that not only their suits were properly attended to in the towns of their residence and elsewhere, but that the Duke of Norfolk had recently claims of his own to which proper attention had been paid by the Emperor's special commands; which statement appeared to give them satisfaction.
Before the Commissioners' departure, the King expressed his regret that Mons. de Praet, to whose late affair he alluded in rather offensive terms, should have been designated as ambassador in the Emperor's last letter to him. The Commissioners replied to this last charge as graciously as it was in their power, as Commander Spinaloza (Peñalosa), who was present at the conference, and with whose opinion and advice the whole business was transacted, will be able to report.
The Commissioners have considered it their duty to inform His Imperial Majesty of everything that has occurred since their arrival in England. Two of them, Mons. de Beures and President (Laurens) have already taken their leave of the King and Legate, and intend to quit London to-morrow morning. Jehan le Sauch remains until the Emperor and Madame send another ambassador in his place, a wish strongly expressed by both King and Legate, as the President has particular instructions to say on his return; and which Le Sauch, for the reasons contained in his last despatch to Madame, taken by Mons. de Cilly, strongly recommends.—London, Sunday, the 11th of June 1525.
P.S.—After two long conferences held with the King and Legate, which have lasted six or seven hours each, and a third of four hours with the Legate alone, in the presence of the aforesaid noblemen and councillors, the Commissioners have returned to London, where they have stayed from Friday to Monday, both included, waiting to see whether the King and Legate were likely to make any alteration in their plans. But, although they have sent a gentleman to the Legate under some pretence, to ascertain whether there was any probability of their changing their mind, they have acquired the conviction that the King still persists in his former determination.
Signed: "Adolf de Bourgogne," "J. Laurens," "Peñalosa," and "Jehan de le Sauch."
Addressed: "To the most Sacred, Imperial and Catholic Majesty of the Emperor."
French. Original. p. 12.
11 June. 112. Antonio de Leyva to the Emperor.
M. D. Pasc. d. G.
Pa. r. a. l. Hist. d.
Esp. No. 24.
Wrote to His Imperial Majesty from Boghera how the Viceroy (Charles de Lannoy) had ordered him, in the Emperor's name, to remain in command of these men-at-arms until he should conduct the French King to Naples, and return here, which, he said, would be in June. Though he (Leyva) wished very much to go home at the time, in order to attend to his own private affairs and pay his debts, yet he preferred the Emperor's service to his own convenience, and therefore the order was punctually obeyed. Now it appears that the Viceroy has taken another determination, and is going straight to Spain with the French King, without letting anyone of us know (fn. n4); and as this journey of his has been so suddenly planned, it has thrown the whole of Italy into confusion. The army, besides, is badly provided for, wanting money and other necessaries, and consequently badly lodged, and at places so distant from each other that they could not, in case of need, help one another. Fears very much that this state of things, if not promptly remedied, will lead to mutiny and disorder. On the other hand, the Venetians, from whom we expected a good sum of money, seeing that the Viceroy is gone without coming to an agreement with them, will give none.
Asks for leave to go to Spain and present himself to the Emperor, since he has served four years in Italy without seeing his friends and relations, as his servant Morales will verbally inform His Majesty.—Milan, 11th of June 1525.
Signed: "Antonio de Leyva."
Addressed: "To the Imperial and Catholic Majesty."
Indorsed: "To the King. Antonio de Leyva, 11th of June (fn. n4) 1525."
Spanish. Original. p. 1¼.
11 June. 113. The Commissioners in England to Madame.
K. u. K. Haus-
Hof- u. Staats Arch.
Rep. P. C. Fasc.
Have received her two letters of the 31st May and 1st inst. brought by Commander Peñalosa, who arrived last Monday. Also their own instructions, which they have read and discussed in the presence of the said Peñalosa, an upright honourable man. Called immediately on the Legate, and and on the ensuing Wednesday on the King, who was absent at Winesorre (Windsor), to both of whom they explained the nature of their charge. The substance of the interview is fully detailed in their joint despatch, and, although it is their intention to return home to-morrow, have preferred not to delay until then the account of their interview with the Cardinal.—London, Sunday, the 11th of June 1525.
Signed: "Adolf de Bourgogne," "Jos. Laurens," "Peñalosa," et "Jehan de le Sauch."
Addressed: "A Madame la Gouvernante des Pays-Bas."
French. Original. p. 1½.
11 June. 114. The Commissioners in England to Madame.
K. u. K. Haus-Hof-
u. Staats Arch.
Wien. Rep. P. C.
Fasc. 223. No.34.
Knight Commander Peñalosa, who arrived last Monday, early, brought Madame's two letters of the 31st of March and 1st of April; also the Emperor's instructions, which they (the Commissioners) have read attentively, and consulted with the said Commander, who seems a wise and honourable man.
Immediately after the Commander's arrival, the Commissioners wrote to the Legate at Winnesorre (Windsor), asking for an audience of the King, which was fixed for the following Wednesday. Went thither and delivered their charge, as reported in their letter to His Imperial Majesty, whereof a copy is enclosed. Though their intention is to leave London to-morrow, they have thought it advisable to send an express acquainting Madame of their doings.—London, Sunday the 11th of June 1525.
Signed: "Adolf de Bourgogne," "Joos. Laurens," "Peñalosa," "Jehan de le Sauch."
Addressed: "A Madame la Gouvernante des Pays-Bas."
French. Original. p. 1½.
13 June. 115. Jehan de le Sauch to Madame.
K. u. K. Haus-
Hof- u. Staats Arch.
Wien. Rep. P. C.
Fasc. 223. No. 35.
By the Commissioners' joint despatch [of the 11th] Madame has, no doubt, heard the answer made by this King to the charge brought by Commander Spinaloza (Peñalosa), who having no more to do here, has actually left [for Spain]. It was the Commander's intention at first to return by way of Flanders, and thence go back to the Viceroy (Charles de Lanoy), believing that Madame might, in the meantime, despatch Richart [Bollengier] to the Emperor. Perceiving, however, that by that way there would be at least 15 days or three weeks' time lost, he [Le Sauch] persuaded him to take a sea route, which he has done. The King sends with him a courier with letters and full powers to his ambassadors to treat on the points contained in the Commissioners' last despatch.
But considering that the sea-passage is both dangerous and uncertain, not only owing to the calms generally prevailing at the present season, but on account also of the contrary winds and storms; considering that the Emperor must needs be informed as soon as possible of the King's intention, as now conveyed by Commander Peñalosa, he (Le Sauch) is of advice that, after reading the Commissioners' joint despatch of the 11th June, (fn. n5) Madame should, if possible, forward [to Spain] a duplicate of it in cipher, either by way of France or through the Viceroy [of Naples]. That route seems to him (Le Sauch) the quickest and perhaps the safest under the present circumstances, for there is no great probability of war being made this season. Even if the Emperor were ready to treat immediately with the King [of England], as the instructions sent by the latter to his ambassadors seem to indicate, there would scarcely be time to prepare for a campaign this year. Indeed before the said Peñalosa can have reached the Emperor's court, concluded the agreement with the English ambassadors, and brought back the answer, more than two months will have elapsed, besides the time required for the armies to march, &c; it would then be winter, a season more fitted for retreat than advance. In addition to which, it must be observed that nowhere in the answer is it stated that this King is to send his ambassadors sufficient powers to capitulate without further reference or approbation, and therefore more time would still be lost in the transmission of the said agreement, ratification of its articles, and so forth. During this interval the Emperor would have to keep up his Italian army at the usual cost of one hundred, or one hundred and twenty thousand ducats monthly, the arrears of which are said to be now very considerable, since the soldiers have had no pay for the last five or six months.
The above is a matter well worth Madame's consideration. He (Le Sauch) writes out of zeal for the service, and from fear that these delays and the practices likely soon to commence on all sides will find the Emperor unprepared and so far engaged and involved as not to be able to disentangle himself and move with freedom. Indeed, one may guess from the turn things have taken ever since the victory of Pavia, what the Emperor's position would be if he were to be forsaken by his allies.
Begs for his recall, and that another ambassador be soon appointed to succeed Mons. de Praet, according to the wish so often expressed by the King and Cardinal, and to the heading and first article of the instructions brought by Spinalosa (Peñalosa) and by Richard, wherein it is expressly said that the Emperor will order the appointment of another ambassador to be made in case the said Praet should have already left [England]. Besides which it is a fact that when the King spoke to the Commissioners about him (Praet), he did it in still angrier terms than those mentioned in their joint despatch, the said Peñalosa having then declared before the King that the event of Mons. de Praet having to quit England had been provided for by the Emperor, and the order sent to have him replaced. And since he (Le Sauch) cannot do the Emperor's and Madame's service as he would wish, begs again for his recall, and the sooner the better.—London, 13 June 1525.
Signed: "Jehan de le Sauch."
Addressed: "A Madame la Gouvernante des Pays d'en Bas."
Indorsed: "Maistre Jehan de le Sauch, Londres, 13 June."
French. Holograph. Pp. 2.


  • n1. Elsewhere written Guiot.
  • n2. See the preceding paper.
  • n3. The Emperor landed at Dover the 27th May 1520.
  • n4. On this very day, the 11th of June, the Viceroy despatched to Spain one of the gentlemen of his suit, named Manuel Malversin, announcing his determination to convey the French King, not to Naples, which seems to have been his original intention, but to Spain. The instructions given by him to Malversin, two days after his arrival at Villafranca de Niça, are in Bradford's Correspondence of the Emperor Charles V., pp. 120–2. If, as Leyva tells the Emperor, none of the generals in command of the Imperial army had known till then this change in the Viceroy's plans, it is quite evident that Bourbon had some reason to complain, as he afterwards did, of Lannoy's trying to assume all the glory of the battle, and present his royal captive to the Emperor. The passage being an important one I here subjoin the Spanish: "Agora me parece quel dicho Visorey ha tomado otro camino, de yrse á España con el Rey, bien que ninguno de los que acá quedamos en servicio de V. Mag. lo haya sabido hasta agora."
  • n5. See No. 114.