Spain: June 1525, 16-30

Pages 200-219

Calendar of State Papers, Spain, Volume 3 Part 1, 1525-1526. Originally published by Her Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1873.

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June 1525, 16-30

17 June. 116. The Same to the Same. (fn. n1)
K. u. K. Haus-
Hof-u. Staats Arch.
Wien. Rep. P. C.
Fasc. 223.
Received yesterday, the 16th, Madame's letters for Mons. de Beures (Bèvres), President (Laurens), and himself, bearing date of the 10th.
Although there was nothing particular in their contents to induce him (Le Sauch) to see Monseigneur the Legate, yet supposing that the Legate might also have received letters from the English ambassador (Sir Robert Wingfield) at Mechlin (Malines) respecting the Duke of Norfolk's ship and other matters under discussion, he (Le Sauch) called to inform him that he had received letters from the Low Countries, by which he was instructed to urge the expedition of Commander Peñalosa, as the Emperor was most anxiously expecting an answer to the letters brought by him. Also that a gentleman of the Queen Regent of France was shortly expected at Madame's court (between the 11th and 12th inst.), and that as soon as Madame had heard what he (the messenger) had to say, her Commissioners [in England] would receive certain notes to be communicated to the King and Legate. Also that the truce with Mons. de Gheldres (Gueldres) had been prorogued for another year. That Madame had besides been informed of the arrival in the ports of Zealand of certain Scottish vessels, there to lade or unlade all manner of merchandise, lawful as well as unlawful, in consequence of which the Flemish Vice-Admiral had been ordered to lay his hands on the said ships in case they should be found to contain contraband goods. Lastly, that they (the Commissioners) had received a note (billet), translated from the Spanish into French, containing certain news about the Indies, which he (Le Sauch) begged leave to communicate according to a note received from home. As, however, the said note was couched in rather vague and ambiguous terms, and no reference was made in it either to the Duke's (of Norfolk) ship or to the news lately received from Germany, he (Le Sauch) considered it prudent to draw up his memorandum, so as not to excite the suspicions of the Cardinal and afford him an opportunity to make up a case against the Commissioners.
The Legate's reply was that he felt very grateful for the information received, and begged him (Le Sauch) to continue his good offices. He then inquired for news from Spain, to which the Commissioner answered that he had none. The Legate next begged for a copy in writing of the several articles referred to at the conference, saying he did not understand the French language sufficiently well (pour ce qu'il n'entend pas bien franchois), and wished to inform the King thereof, which he (Le Sauch) did, this being his first interview with the Cardinal since the departure of Mons. de Beures and President.—London, 17 June 1525.
Signed: "Jehan de le Sauch."
Addressed: "To Madame."
French. Original. pp. 2.
17 June. 117. Memorandum given by Le Sauch to Cardinal Wolsey.
Arch. d. Royme de
Belg. Neg. d. Ang.
Tom. 11.
That the gentleman of the Queen Regent of France who was lately in Flanders (fn. n2) had only requested Madame in general terms to endeavour to bring about a peace between the Emperor and the King, his master, without making any overtures whatever. That when asked to declare more fully the nature of his charge, the French gentleman had answered that he had no other mission. Madame then told him that if the Queen Regent was willing to propose terms of peace, she had better specify what they were, or wait until Madame should communicate to her what the Emperor, in his own name and in that of the King of England, his ally, was likely to demand. Should these appear to her excessive, she was to make such offers as could be accepted by them without dishonour or detriment, and then she would willingly exert herself in her behalf. With which answer the gentleman withdrew, and shortly after went away to France.
The said Lady Margaret writes that the Viceroy had taken the Royal prisoner from Naples to Spain, which was a thing the French regretted much, as they lost thereby all hope of recovering him.
Count St. Pol has fled from prison and gone to Lyons, having found the means of corrupting some of his guards with a sum of 8,000 ducats distributed among them.
A petition has been received drawn up by various subjects of the Emperor, natives of the bailiage of Hesdin and county of Artois, still prisoners of war at Calais, whose deliverance is strongly solicited.
Monseigneur the Legate is requested to have Royal warrants issued to Captains Jarningham and Wallop at Calais, enjoining them to release certain prisoners, to the number of 16, all subjects of the Emperor, and still detained at Calais.
French. Copy in Le Sauch's hand. p. 1½.
19 June. 118. The Duke of Sessa, Imperial Ambassador in Rome, to the Emperor.
M. Re. Ac. d. Hist.
Salazar, A. 34,
ff. 583–8.
Wrote on the 25th ult. by a messenger who embarked at Civitta Vecchia, and on the 8th inst. by a Papal courier who went by land. Did not write by Joan Bartholomé de Gattinara, because he being a person of such quality and parts, and having conducted negotiations conjointly with him, he [the Duke] did not consider it necessary to repeat in writing what he [Gattinara] had to report verbally.
(Cipher:) With regard to the object of his mission, he (the Duke) can only judge by conjectures or by hearsay, having had no official communication with His Holiness on the subject. Believes the Pope to be glad that His Imperial Majesty has approved of the league in general terms, but he is by no means pleased to hear that the restitution of Rezzo (Reggio) and Rubiera is postponed, as he (the Pope) thinks he deserves at least as much as the Duke of Ferrara, having contributed more than him towards the peace and tranquillity of Italy. As he was dispossessed by main force, the sooner he (the Pope) is reinstated the better, for then the Emperor's justice will be more conspicuous. (fn. n3)
Such is the Pope's belief; he does not conceal that had he chosen some days ago to enter into negotiation with the Duke [of Ferrara] he might have obtained much better conditions—perhaps also the restitution of those two fiefs (Reggio and Rubiera)—only that having pledged his word to the Viceroy not to make any private convention with the Duke without first letting him know, he has been confidently waiting for the said restitution to come from the Emperor, as a sign of his justice and goodwill towards him. He (the Pope) considers himself ill-used and injured by the present decision, and most likely will do everything in his power to get redress.
(Common writing:) No sooner was it known here that the Viceroy had gone to Spain, taking the King of France with him, than a great change was observed in the Pope's countenance; for these Italians are so sharp and subtle (fn. n4) that they are apt to give great variety of meanings and constructions to the most simple action, and particularly to one of such importance as this. His Holiness, at first, was rather astonished at the news; he has since conversed several times with him (the Duke), and professes to be always as desirous as ever of universal peace and of His Imperial Majesty's aggrandisement, for, says he, without either one or the other it is impossible to stay the ruin of Christianity, menaced as it is both by the Turk and by the Lutherans, and he believes this the best way of obtaining the desired object.
It has been decided that the Legate [Jacopo de Salviatis] should go [to Spain] much sooner than was at first intended in the Pope's galleys and those of St. John of Jerusalem; but intelligence having been received since that there was plague on board, it is doubtful now whether that mode of conveyance will be chosen. It was also thought of despatching by post the Archbishop of Capua, but he is not very willing to undertake the journey, and they dare not press him too much.
Concerning the occurrences at Sienna, he (the Duke) has written several times [to Spain], expressing his own private opinion. Things are getting worse every day there; and it is quite evident that the populace aims at nothing short of taking the government of the republic into their hands, and so destroying and annihilating the nobles that they may never again have any power over them. They have confiscated the property of some of the principal citizens and condemned others who are absent, so that things have come to a state of greater tyrrany than before, and the city must ultimately fall into the hands of Cardinal Piccolomini and of his heirs, who are scarcely able to bear such a burden. He (the Duke) had put off his journey thither, because, not knowing exactly the intentions of the Viceroy, he could scarcely expect to settle matters in a satisfactory and durable way. He thought of going to Naples, and there conversing with the Viceroy, but the latter's departure for Spain has increased his doubts and perplexities. He proposes to send a confidential person to Sienna to persuade the people not to make new disturbances until His Imperial Majesty's wishes are known, and in the meantime to send a memorandum of what, in his opinion, ought to be done there.
Chevalier Casal has come from England to Milan; he is every day expected in Rome. Everything is [at Milan] at a standstill just now; they say that until an answer is received from His Imperial Majesty nothing shall be done. (fn. n5)
Things in Germany are taking a better turn. It is reported that the Suabian League inflicted a severe blow upon the rebellious peasants. He [the Duke] has not heard from the Infante [Archduke Ferdinand] for many days.
The Pope has lately been suffering from sciatica, his old complaint; he goes about in a Sedan chair, being unable to walk; notwithstanding which, he daily transacts business.
Ecclesiastical provisions and other affairs of the Church.
The Archbishop of Capua is very grateful for the proofs of Imperial favour just received. He is about to write in acknowledgment, and professes to be more than ever devoted to the Emperor's service. All State affairs go now through his hands, since the Datary (Gianmatheo Giberti) does nothing but what belongs to his own particular office. The Pope bears him more than parental love.
The bankers are already beginning to annoy the indorsers of the bills, which came back from the Treasurer protested. He (the Duke) has written to Naples to know whether they are willing to pay there a debt, like this, contracted for His Majesty's service and for the defence of that kingdom. Should they disregard his request, he cannot devise other means to satisfy the creditors than constituting himself a prisoner in Sanct Angelo until the money is paid.
Having written so far, letters of the 23d ult. were received, announcing the confirmation of the league by His Imperial Majesty. He (the Duke) will observe faithfully the instructions sent him by Monsieur de Bourbon, and will inform him of the result. He did not write by the Regent Juan Bartholomé [Gattinara] for the reasons stated elsewhere.
(Cipher:) It was imperative to hasten the conclusion of the league, for there was already much talking among the people, the Duke of Ferrara being one of those who most pressed the Pope to take into his hands the protection and defence of all parties, offering great sums and boasting of the liberality with which he has at all times given his money. (fn. n6) Some were of opinion that, rather than allow France to be worsted, it was preferable to continue the war with His Imperial Majesty, though under great disadvantage to themselves. In England, if he (the Duke) has been rightly informed, the people will be glad to hear of the league being confirmed; but on the other hand, they would have liked to see the matter discussed, so as to keep His Imperial Majesty under an obligation to them, and finally make the Cardinal judge and arbiter in the affair. A league composed of such elements could not be very dangerous to so powerful a Prince as His Imperial Majesty really is; but when matters can be settled by peaceful means, it is far preferable than trusting to fortune for the issue.
He (the Duke) has heard from good sources that the English have asked the Queen Mother of France (Louise of Savoy) to send them an ambassador, who has accordingly left since for England. The information is contained in a letter from Lyons of the 14th inst.
It is also given out as a public fact that a match is shortly to be arranged between the King of Scotland and the daughter (fn. n7) of the King of England, and that they [the English] consider themselves justified in so doing in consequence of His Imperial Majesty being actually in treaty with Portugal for a similar purpose. (fn. n8) However this may be, certain it is that the Cardinal of England is trying all he can to persuade the Pope to listen to the overtures of the confederates, and stir up the Italian humours. He blames him strongly for not taking the part of the Italian powers, showing that if he (the Pope) wished, he might have ample means of carrying out his political designs for the peace and independence of Italy. (fn. n9)
The enclosed advices from Germany (fn. n10) will give an idea of the troubles and civil wars by which that country is distracted.
Addressed: "To the Sacred, Imperial, Catholic Majesty. Duplicate of the xix. June."
Indorsed: "To the King. 1525. From the Duke, 19 June."
Spanish. Original partly in cipher. Contemporary deciphering. pp. 7.
23 June. 119. Jehan le Sauch to Madame.
K. u. K. Haus- Hof-
u. Staats Arch.
Wien. Rep. P. C.
Fasc. 223.
On Tuesday, late at night, Brian Tucke sent in her letters of the 13th instant, addressed to Mons. de Bevres (Adolf de Bourgogne), President (Laurens), and himself. They have been eight days on the road. He (Le Sauch) cannot guess what the cause of the delay has been, but thinks proper to mention the fact, for fear that the same thing should happen with other and more important despatches.
He (Le Sauch) would have waited next day on the Legate, to inform him of the arrival [at Mechlin?] of the gentleman (fn. n11) sent by the Queen Regent of France and of Madame's answer to his overtures; also to speak about the prisoners of war still detained at Calais, had he not been for the last five days suffering so much from a sore throat that he has been unable to speak. As it is, he (Le Sauch) called on Brian Tucke, and begged to be excused if he did not wait upon the Legate on account of the aforesaid indisposition. Sent to him by the same channel a copy of the memorandum concerning the gentleman messenger from France, as well as the petitions presented by the prisoners, begging him to send orders to Captains Jarninghen and Wallop for their release.
The Legate replied, by means of Brian Tucke, that the English ambassador in the Low Countries (Sir Robert Wingfield) had already sent him similar information about the said French gentleman, though not so full in its details as the one he (Le Sauch) had drawn up for him, a copy of which is enclosed. (fn. n11) Thanked him for it, and said he was very much astonished to hear that the prisoners had not yet been released, for he had certainly sent most positive orders to Calais to have them placed at the disposal of Mons. de Bevres and President on their passage to the Low Countries. He purposed seeing the King to-morrow, St. John's day, and the whole of next Sunday at Greenwich, when he would take care that the warrants were issued, &c.
Le Sauch begged Brian Tucke to observe that his application did not so much concern the prisoners now at Vorschocq, Escuelles, and other villages of the county of Guisnes and district of St. Omer as other prisoners of whom no mention had hitherto been made. The former were eight in number, besides the Receiver of Rollencourt; and as the orders had been issued for their delivery to Mons. de Bevres, he had nothing more to say. His application was in favour of thirty more prisoners detained at Calais.
In the said memorandum (billet) no mention whatever was made, as Madame will see, either of the fisheries or of the peasants of Germany, for the reasons expressed in his last despatches. Madame said in her letter that the [German] peasants had laid siege to a town, without naming it. The report here is that the besieged town is Nancy, and that Mons. de Loraine is inside. May he be soon succoured and gain a victory over the rebels!
Last Monday a servant (fn. n12) of Messire Richard Wingfield, who resides in Spain as ambassador from this King conjointly with Mons. de Londres, (fn. n13) arrived with letters dated from Toledo, of the 5th instant. As the said messenger brought no letters from the Emperor to him, Le Sauch returned to ask Brian Tucke whether he had received any news from Spain, and what the messenger's charge was. His reply was that the English ambassadors, on their arrival at the Imperial court, had duly delivered their charge, and that an answer had been returned to them; that ever since their departure, they (the ambassadors) had been continually travelling from one place to another, and that when the Emperor had declared his intention to send Commander Peñalosa to this country on matters of great importance for both monarchs, they (the English ambassadors) had expressed a wish to wait for the answer that would be made here (in England) to the Commander's charge, and for this reason the ambassadors had ceased their inquiries, and no more was said to them about the matter, only that the Emperor had brought before them one special point, about which neither Peñalosa nor the Commissioners had said a word, i.e., the Emperor had charged Peñalosa to state, in his name, that his subjects in Spain would not bear patiently his absence from that kingdom unless he left a personage in his room to console and cheer them up (pour les consoler and recreer), and that he (the Emperor) had nobody to delegate unless it was a Queen "presente ou future." To this end he had sent to ask the King of England to deliver him his daughter and her dowry. However, as he knew not what the King's answer might be on this particular, and, on the other hand, was intent upon following up his good fortune—which could not well be done without money—he had sent to inquire whether, in case of the King not acceding to his demand, he would object to his marriage with the Princess of Portugal, which would procure him a good sum of money with which to carry his designs into execution.
Here Laurens interrupted Brian Tuck, assuring him that he had not the least knowledge of the overtures said to have been brought by Peñalosa. It was the first time he had heard of it, and neither verbally nor in writing had he ever been instructed to declare the Emperor's intentions on that score. Brian Tuck continued to say that Mons. Robert de Wingfield, actually residing at Madame's court as ambassador of this King, had written to the Legate something to this effect, for he relates that on one occasion, and (par manière de devises) Madame had said to him: "If the King of England, your master, does not make up his mind to assist the Emperor with money and men, he (the Emperor), rather than give up and abandon his favourite idea [against the French], will be obliged to seek an alliance in the farthest point of the world (à la plus loingtaine marche du monde)."
Monseigneur the Legate (continued Brian Tucke) had been considering where the Emperor could find a wife in a far-away land with sufficient money. After a good deal of thought, he come to the conclusion that it could be no other than the daughter of the King of Roussye (Russia), who is reported to possess considerable treasure. By her means (he thought) the Emperor would secure a large sum of money, and perhaps, too, the Prince, who is a heretic, would be converted to the Christian faith. But the Legate having since communicated this idea of his to some nobleman about Court, he was told that probably the Princess of Portugal was meant, since her father's kingdom is really "la plus loingtaine marche" on that side of the world. However this may be, continued Brian Tuck, Madame said those or similar words to Mons. Robert de Wingfield, there can be no doubt that she must have known something about it.
Jean Joakin arrived yesterday in London. Hearing of it Laurens went up to Brian Tuck, intending to inquire after him. He waited intentionally to see whether the Secretary would introduce the subject first, but finding he did not, he (Le Sauch) said to him: "Well, what news of the Sieur Jehan Joakin; what has he to say for himself?" "True, I forgot," answered Brian Tucke, "to mention his arrival to you, but I will tell you all I know about him. He (Jockin) called on the Legate, and told him the message he had from the Queen Regent of France. When he had finished, the Legate asked him: 'Have you anything more to say?' 'No,' was Joakin's answer. 'Well then,' said the Legate, 'you may return to-morrow the same way you came. I have no more to say to you. Go!'" This conversation Brian Tucke had heard, as he was present at it. "But" (he added) "those who come on such missions do not generally declare at the first audience the whole of their charge, and therefore I cannot say whether he will leave to-morrow or whether he will stay. I shall do my utmost to know what his intentions are and what he has come about."
It is altogether a very strange affair, for although the said Jockin is said to have come here without a safe-conduct, he (Le Sauch) has heard from a very good source that, fifteen days before the departure for Flanders of Mons. de Bèvres and President (Laurens), he had been furnished with one without Madame's Commissaries knowing anything about it. No need for him to refer to Peñalosa's charge, having explained the matter fully in his preceding despatches. Respecting the 3,000 horse and 1,000 foot, till the Emperor's resolution arrives, nothing can be done. Believes, moreover, that if it does come at all, it will be too late in the season, and that there will be no money forthcoming from this country.
Hears from some Spanish merchants residing in London that they have had letters from Spain of the 20th instant, announcing that the Emperor had revoked all safe-conducts given to Frenchmen two months after the publication of his mandate to that effect.
The Treasurer of Calais (Lord William Sandys) tells him (Le Sauch) that 4,000 Italian light horse have arrived in Boulloingne (Boulogne-sur-Mer), and that round Abbeville great preparations are being made. Therouanne had been revictualled (ravitalleé) with 300 waggons of provisions.
When the King returned last from Windsor, he passed by Hautencourt (Hampton Court), a house belonging to the Legate, which he has presented to him with all its appurtenances, furniture, &c. In future the Cardinal will lodge as any other of the King's servants. "Il me semble que l'on appelle cela: Je vous donne ung cochon de vostre pourcheau, au grant merchys du vostre."
It is reported that the King will leave soon for Greenwich, and thence for Hampton Court for 10 or 12 days, waiting for the Cardinal, who is to hold the assizes (les cours de justice). From thence the King is to go to a small town (villette) in Cornwall, called Oudestock (Woodstock), which is at least 80 miles from this capital.
Wishes that some one may come soon to replace Mons. de Praet and himself, that he may go home.—Londres, la veille de St. Jehan, xxiii jour de Juing, anno xx.xxv. (1525).
Signed: "Jehan de le Sauch."
Addressed: "A Madame la Gouvernante des Pays-Bas."
French. Original. pp. 7.
24 June. 120. The Same to the Same.
K. u. K. Haus- Hof.
u. Staats Arch.
Wien. Rep. P. C.
Fasc. 223. No. 37.
Has heard that, before his departure from London, Jehan Jocquin said to one of his friends who had frequently visited him during his stay, that his dismissal from this court had been decided upon merely to please Madame, and that he would not be absent long. Has heard also that the Legate sent him, through a servant of Bonnisi, (fn. n14) residing in this city, and an intimate friend of that ambassador, the required safe-conduct, &c.
The news from Spain is that when the Emperor heard of the landing of the English ambassadors on the coast (fn. n15) he sent a quarter-master (fourrier) and a bailiff (alguacil) (fn. n16) to prepare lodgings for them on the road and conduct them to Toledo, where he was staying at the time, and that when they approached that city he sent a deputation of noblemen and high personages to meet them. The day after their arrival the Emperor received them in public audience, after which he took them to his private rooms, where they remained a long time, and that for many consecutive days they had attended the Imperial Council and there discussed the matters connected with their charge.
His Imperial Majesty had complained of the Legate in various ways, and especially of the violation of Praet's correspondence and the rude manner in which that ambassador had been treated. Nevertheless, he had treated the English ambassadors with great affability, though he had declared to them that he would hold in future no communication whatever with the Legate, and that, if he had any message for the King of England, would send one of the gentlemen of his household to visit him without writing to the Legate. When the King of England had any thing to say to him, he could do the same.
On the 10th of July next the Emperor was to be at Monçon there to hold the Cortes of Aragon, those of Castille being on the eve of terminating their business, which had been done in a very satisfactory manner.
The French ambassadors had arrived in Spain, and were eight days march from Court (Toledo).
Mons. de Buren, (fn. n17) who had had some sort of commission for the Emperor, had returned to France without accomplishing anything.
All these news he (Le Sauch) hears from a friend who has correspondents at the Imperial court, and one particularly, very trustworthy and well known to him (Le Sauch). Fancies that the intelligence is not much to the Legate's taste, for he has not communicated it even to his most intimate friends.
Hears that the Legate intends to send back to Spain the same gentleman who returned three or four days ago. Is the more inclined to believe this that Brian Tucke has told him that he had been prevented from writing out a despatch for Spain, and that to-morrow and after he is to be at Greenwich, where there will be scarcely any councillors (grands-maistres), for all the Knights leave to-morrow for Windsor, there to hold, on Sunday next, one of their assemblies according to the statutes of the order.
Has seen the Pope's Nuncio, who, having waited last Sunday upon the Cardinal for the purpose of knowing what the King's pleasure was respecting the proposed [Italian] league, was told to have patience and wait three or four days more. The Nuncio's impression is that the Legate only wishes to gain time to decipher certain letters lately received from Spain, and also to hear what Jean Jocquin has to say on the subject. Should he not send him soon a categorical answer, the Nuncio is determined to go straight to the King and ask him what his intentions are.
Last Sunday there was a magnificent pageant and court held in this town by the King for the purpose of creating his bastard son [Henry Fitzroy] Duke of Richemont and Sombresettre (Somerset), Earl of Notenghen (Nottingham), &c., about which there is much talk (dont plusieurs parlèrent diversement). The concourse of people was great; the heat and dust almost intolerable.
On the same day the following appointments were made:—
The eldest son of the Duke of Suffolk to be Earl of Lincone (Lincoln).
Milord Waucher to be Marquis of Exeter. (fn. n18)
Milord Roz to be Earl of Rotland. (fn. n19)
Millord Clifford to be Earl of Comberlande. (fn. n20)
Milord Fitz Water (fn. n21) to be Viscount d'Aigremont.
And Boullant (Boleyn) to be Viscount of Rocherfort. (fn. n22) —London, 24 June 1525.
Signed: "Jehan de la Sauch."
Addressed: "A Madame la Gouvernante des Pays-Bas."
French. Original. pp. 4.
24 June. 121. The Same to the Same.
K. u. K. Haus-
Hof- u. Staats Arch.
Wien. Rep. P. C.
Fasc. 223. No. 38.
Wishes the Emperor to be informed that Jehan Jocquin is still here (in London), and that the ambassadors of France have been duly warned that no overtures on the part of the Queen Regent (Louise de Savoie) or of those who have charge of her son's affairs are to be listened to, unless they come through the channel of the said Jockin. Does not know whether he is right in his conjectures, but fancies that the course adopted with respect to that ambassador is the surest, as by insisting on his recall the French will most likely revoke his powers, and take care in future not to send another ambassador here or to other courts until they see how things turn out. (fn. n23)
The day before yesterday was the anniversary of Jean Jockin's arrival in London. That only shows how time passes, especially in journeys, and one may guess who is the cause of all this. If Jockin has come here by order of some one, it may be fairly presumed that it is not to promote the Emperor's interests. If by the Regent's express desire, no wonder that he takes so much care of her affairs, and in so doing contrives to do all possible injury to the Emperor. However this may be, His Imperial Majesty is sure to know, on Peñalosa's arrival, what the intentions of these people are, and what instructions the gentleman now accompanying that Commander is taking to the English ambassadors in Spain. Whatever these may be, his (Le Sauch's) idea is that they come too late, especially as concerns the Italian army, to which such arrears are owed and such scanty pay is issued that it must prove a very heavy burden. Has no hopes of one single crown from this country.
Firmly believes that the King and Cardinal will rather make peace with the common enemy, without profit to themselves (oires n'ayent ils pieche ni piechette), than prosecute a war requiring so great an expenditure, and for which they are by no means prepared, for money they have none, and as to getting it from the people, they know full well that the expedient has been tried once, and does not succeed.—On St. John's eve, the 24th of June 1525.
Signed: "Jehan de le Sauch."
Addressed: "A Madame, &c."
French. Original. pp. 2½.
30 June. 122. The Same to the Same.
K. u. K. Haus- Hof-
u. Staats Arch.
Wien. Rep. P. C.
Fasc. 223. No. 39,
f. 7.
Wrote on St. John's day (the 24th), as Madame may see by his letter of that date. (fn. n24) That very day Jean Joackin was conducted to Greenwich, where he spent upwards of three hours and a half with the King and Legate (plus de trois heures d'un tenant).
The ensuing Monday the King and Queen went to Hauten-court (Hampton Court), thence to go to several other Royal seats to pass the rest of the summer season, without, however, going further from this city (London) than 20 or 30 miles at the most; for their intended visit to Oudestock (Woodstock) is put off for the present.
For the reasons detailed in his former letter, he (Le Sauch) could not possibly have called on the King and Legate before Wednesday last, when, having received a message from the latter, and finding himself nearly if not completely recovered from his late illness (à demy gary), he decided to attend the summons. He, therefore, on the morning of St. John's day, sent a message to Brian Tucke (Tuke), asking for the requisite letters for the release of the Calais prisoners.
On his return from Greenwhich, on Monday, Brian Tucke informed him (Le Sauch) that the Royal letters were not yet ready, owing to the Legate having left the petition (requette) behind him at Westminster; however, the Captain of Guisnes (Fitzwilliam) would be written to, as the principal Royal officer on the other side of the Channel, and the petition and papers would be sent to him, which has been done since, he (Tuke) giving him (Le Sauch) the enclosed King's warrant to that effect.
On the same day, Wednesday, Madame's letter, dated Hoochstraete, the 22d instant, came to hand, as well as two more letters from the Viceroy (Charles de Lannoy), one for the King, the other for the Legate, both of which he duly delivered. Told the Legate that he (Le Sauch) had heard from Madame, and communicated to him the substance of the letter.
The Viceroy's letters announced his arrival at Genoa with his prisoner, the King of France, whom he was about to take to the Emperor in Spain, as the season was too far advanced and it was dangerous to take him to Naples. (fn. n25) After perusing the letters, the Legate told Le Sauch he had heard from his ambassadors at the Imperial court that some people had written against him and calumniated him, and that he had certainly done nothing to deserve such treatment. Upon which, and with a view to inculpate Mons. de Bèvres, the President (Laurens), and himself, the Cardinal produced the abstract of certain letters which, he said, had been received from the King's ambassadors in Spain, and made him read them, which, being done, Le Sauch returned the paper, saying: "I recollect very well on what occasion and for what purpose that despatch was made. I myself drew it up, and those are my very words. A duplicate of it was forwarded to the Emperor." The Legate then, apparently very much amazed, observed: "I have never uttered the words contained in this extract, nor do I think that Mons. de Bèvres and the President could affirm such a thing."
Perceiving by this last sentence that the Legate's intention was to lay the charge at his (Le Sauch's) door, as the secretary who had drawn up the despatch, he made him a suitable answer, as may be seen by the enclosed duplicate of his letter (fn. n26) to the said Bèvres and President, informing them of the occurrence. There was, however, no anger in the Cardinal's words. On the contrary, his complaint was uttered in the mildest possible tone. The Emperor's discontent was quite true, and he himself knew of it.
Perceiving that he had only been sent for that he might hear from the Cardinal's own mouth the account of his grievances, he (Le Sauch) asked him whether he could write home to announce Jean Jockin's return [to England.] Upon which he said: "You may; we ourselves are now writing to inform the Emperor of his arrival." Le Sauch replied: "Monseigneur, it is not my intention now to write to the Emperor, as there would be no one here to take my letter to him. Should I know of any person now going to Spain, I should most certainly write, for such I consider my duty to be. Whatever the Emperor may think of this matter, my duty is to inform Madame." Then he said: "Well, you may write and say that Jean Jockin has come [to England], but that his mission has no other object than obtaining a safe-conduct for the Chancellor of Alençon (Jean Brinon), whom the Queen Regent of France (Louise de Savoie) is now sending with the Pope's advice to make certain overtures concerning general peace. This has been done in consequence of the embassy which the said Regent (Louise de Savoie) sent to the Emperor, and also to treat of certain matters which especially concern us."
Having then inquired whether the said Chancellor was really to come [to England], the Cardinal answered: "Yes, he is coming; his safe-conduct has already been forwarded to him, and he will be in London in eight or ten days at the latest."
Thus ended the conference, he (Le Sauch) promising to call next day and bring, for the Cardinal's inspection, the draft of his letter to Mons. de Bèvres and President (Laurens).
Received on the same day letters from Commander Peñalosa, dated Pleume (Plymouth) the 20th instant, announcing that he had not yet left the port owing to contrary winds, but hoped to sail shortly. Has since heard from merchants of this city that he, Peñalosa, took his departure a few days after.
In consequence of the appointment made, Le Sauch returned to the Cardinal on the ensuing Thursday, and read him the draft of his letter to Bèvres and President, so as to convince him that what they had conjointly written was in consonance with his (the Cardinal's) words. He still insists that he never said "sans conditions;" (fn. n27) and, to speak the truth, the conditions are differently expressed in the Commissioners' letter, in the paragraph immediately following that of the abstract in which the President's conversation with the Legate is reported; for it is said there that he (the Cardinal) would not do it, and yet the King and he were not to be driven to despair, for otherwise they might execute their threats, that is to say, join the [Italian] league and grant the marriage-alliance mentioned in the said paragraph. The Emperor or those next to his person might have taken these words in bad part, without considering the reservation made by the Cardinal in the paragraph immediately following. His (Le Sauch's) impression was that these and similar reports addressed to the Emperor respecting the Cardinal's conduct in various affairs had induced the Emperor to speak of him as he has done.
The Cardinal ended by thanking him (Le Sauch) for the trouble he had taken in this affair, saying he trusted in the great prudence and discretion of Mons. de Bèvres and President and in his (Le Sauch's), that the affair would be hushed, and that they would write to the Emperor accordingly. Begged him particularly to do so, as he had such great confidence in him. Has done it, as requested, as Madame may see by the enclosed copy (fn. n28) of his letter.
After this the Legate began lamenting over his bad luck. After working so hard and so efficiently for the Emperor's interests, his services had never been appreciated at their worth. Not only had he laboured to maintain the old alliances and confederations between the two countries (Spain and England), but had so tightened the ties of friendship that they might now be considered indissoluble. He had persuaded the King, his master, to declare war against the French King and promise the Emperor the hand of the Princess (Mary), to lend him considerable sums of money, and incur heavy expenses on his account. And now his sole reward for all this was, that he had—through the malicious reports of people who understood nothing about State affairs, and who wished, perhaps, that things should turn out disadvantageously for them—fallen into disgrace with the Emperor. Had he even uttered one part of the words and sentiments attributed to him, his affection for the Emperor ought still to have been taken into account. As to Madame, he looked upon her with as great a respect as upon the Princess herself; she is Lady in this world for whom he would do most, considering her virtues, good sense, prudence and honourable behaviour.
After such complimentary tirade, Le Sauch was rather embarrassed, and knew not what to say to please the Cardinal. He resolved, however, to bring him to a point (foncer à travers du blé du bon homme), and said to him: "I am exceedingly sorry at your Reverence imagining that the Emperor's discontent proceeds from reports made by Madame or by her Commissioners in London, and afterwards forwarded to Spain and accepted. If your Reverence grants me permission, and promises not to be offended, I will readily point out the cause of the Emperor's discontent, which, in my opinion, is a different one." "Out with it," replied the Cardinal.
Le Sauch said to him: "Monseigneur, your Reverence must admit that the various favours conferred on the Emperor, and which your Reverence has just enumerated, have been on all occasions duly acknowledged by His Imperial Majesty, yet I am given to understand that for a long time both the Emperor and Madame [of the Low Countries] have heard from various trustworthy sources certain unfavourable expressions uttered by your Reverence respecting their persons and acts; which expressions, though both may have dissembled for a time, have not always been taken in good part, so much so, that now-a-days His Imperial Majesty, considering your Reverence's behaviour in these affairs, is inclined to think that had he not been victorious [at Pavia], and had he not crushed the common enemy, there is no knowing what would have become of him. This and the subsequent seizure of Mons. de Praet's letters have so added to the anger in his breast, that, not being able to repress it any longer, the Emperor, as I presume, has made it known to the English ambassadors. (fn. n29) This, and no other, I take to be the cause of His Imperial Majesty's discontent, if any there be, and not any report of Madame's or her Commissioners, at this court. I hope, however, that everything will be made right in time, and the means found to appease the Emperor's anger."
"And what, pray, may I have said about the Emperor and Madame so to cause their displeasure?" "Monseigneur" (said Le Sauch) "it would be a very difficult task for me to enumerate the many reports that are afloat respecting your Reverence, for I myself have not heard them from the mouth of your Reverence. Yet I have heard many people who have had business to transact in this country complain of the light manner in which your Reverence spoke, both of the Emperor and of Madame, his aunt. When Mons. de Rœulx passed through London, he could not see the King; the gentleman whom the Archduke of Austria (Ferdinand) sent here for his own affairs was also dismissed without seeing him. Somebody overheard your Reverence say on one occasion that the Emperor had not one ducat to send to market to buy provisions for his table; that Council there was none, either in Spain or in Flanders; neither country had men sufficiently experienced in State affairs to conduct them for the common advantage, and your Reverence had always to take the initiative (et que c'est tousjours a recommencher pour luy). These and other similar expressions which I forget, have been related to me. (fn. n30) No wonder if those to whom they were addressed, esteeming, as they ought, their master's reputation, have reported them. Many things are said in conversation and whilst discussing business which one is apt to forget. I recollect what trouble I and my colleagues had on Good Friday to bring to your Reverence's recollection, in his own oratory, the fact that upon two different occasions it had been agreed that a descent should be made in Picardy; and that when the King or his Lieutenant should be at Calais the Emperor's Captain-General was to go thither, in order to discuss and fix the time and point of invasion, &c., all of which your Reverence at last owned having said, as we had twice informed Madame. In a like manner, your Reverence told us that unless the Low Countries furnished the 3,000 horse and 3,000 foot required, the Emperor and all his subjects, as well as Madame, were sure to lose the affections of the King of England and yours (perdroint l'amour du Roy et le vostre), and might give you occasion to treat with the enemy. And when we told your Reverence that we could not imagine that such a threat could be carried into effect, we were distinctly told that your Reverence would not willingly take such a measure, but that we were to take care not to drive him to despair, for the King, out of spite, might set his army to make war on us."
"Monseigneur, when we (the Commissioners) or any others who may happen to be sent, either by the Emperor or Madame, on a mission to the King of England or to you, hear similar expressions falling from the mouth of one who, like your Reverence, has the King's entire confidence, and to whom he trusts his most important and troublesome (odieux) affairs, they cannot fail to devote all their consideration to their real meaning. Nothing would be easier for the Imperial servants than to take such expressions in the sense that your Reverence intends them to be. I really believe that that would be by far the best plan; yet, in such mighty affairs, it would be rather difficult, not to say impossible, to unravel the secrets of a heart (sçavoir congnoistre le ceur ny le vouloir d'autruy et s'en asseurer en son ceur). An ambassador is, therefore, obliged to acquaint his master with such reports and expressions, which practice has also its dangers. I beg your Reverence to excuse me if I have spoken too freely. I protest that my intentions are good, and that what I have just said is nowise intended to embitter the question or retard the settlement of our common affairs. Neither have I received a commission to that effect. If I have done wrong, I am alone responsible for it; at any rate, I have said nothing which has not been related to me by trustworthy people as having been done or said by your Reverence at some time or other."
"Monsieur le Secretaire" (replied the Cardinal), "you have just said things to me, some of which I own to be true, whilst others I deny. If reported to the Emperor as you have stated them, they are entirely false. If Mons. de Rœulx has complained to the Emperor of his reception in England, he is quite in the wrong, for I treated him with as much consideration and respect as any other of the Emperor's ambassadors at this court, knowing his rank and qualifications. True, I happened to be, at his arrival in London, laid up with fever, and that may be perhaps the reason for my not receiving him as soon as I could have wished; but if he said that I made him wait three or four hours in an anteroom among servants and valets of my household, I must declare that his report is untrue. Neither is it correct to say that I prevented him from seeing the King. What I told Mons. du Rœulx was that he would not, if he went to the King, get a different answer from that which I gave him; he might go if he chose, and I offered to facilitate his journey. Mons. du Rœulx told me on this occasion many strange stories concerning Mons. de Bourbon, and principally the Viceroy (Charles de Lannoy), on all of which I made him a gracious and suitable answer at the time. If people have chosen to relate the occurrence in a different manner, and calumniate me, it is no fault of mine, and I am innocent of the charge. But I am singularly grieved to hear that, after so many services as I have rendered the Emperor, I should be rewarded by losing his favour, and that he should pay more attention to the malicious reports of my enemies than to my exertions in conducting his affairs as faithfully as I have done. Nevertheless I will do what I consider my duty for the common benefit of His Imperial Majesty and of the King, my master, since the love he professes towards him and his intentions are equally known to me. Besides, how could I ever be a party to ruin and destroy the work of my own hands? Time will show that my intentions were righteous and good. I fancy I have said enough to you to purge myself of so heinous a charge to the Emperor's full satisfaction. I can assure you that I never could have been so indiscreet or imprudent as to have uttered the expressions which you say have been reported to the Emperor and to Madame. I take God to witness, on my word and dignity of Cardinal Presbyter, that I never uttered the said expressions, or even thought of them, especially as regards Madame, whom I consider as much, and would willingly serve on a par with, the Queen of England, as I have told you on a previous occasion. I wish I could be of the condition of Mons. de Berghes, who, if I am rightly informed, said the other day to Madame in the Council Chamber, and whilst some of the councillors were passing judgment on me and my acts: 'Let the Legate say whatever he pleases, provided he acts well. Who the Devil cares about what he says (fn. n31) ? Let us only discuss whether he has hitherto behaved well and is likely to do so in future, and let him say what he likes.' But, no, it is my bad luck that my words and my actions are always to be misinterpreted!! The Emperor, however, if ill-disposed towards me, cannot do me any harm. Here I am in the service of the King, my master, who knows what I have done for the Imperial cause, and therefore will preserve me from danger."
Le Sauch's reply was: "Monseigneur, I do not imagine in the least that matters are in the state in which your Reverence represents them to be; nor do I think the Emperor capable of attempting to do your Reverence personal injury (chose qui puist estre au prejudice ou rebouttement de votre personne). Your Reverence has known him long enough to perceive that his nature is not vindictive; I therefore beg your Reverence to cast off such an idea from your mind."
Upon which the Cardinal replied: "Let it be as you say, I hope everything will turn out well." He then requested him [Le Sauch] to write to the Emperor the substance of the above conference, which the Secretary promised to do, and inquired whether there was in the port any "zabra" (fn. n32) ready to set sail with the despatches, and upon Le Sauch informing him that there had been none for some time, as one had been placed at the disposal of one of the King's messengers going to Spain [Curzon?], and on board the other Knight Commander Peñalosa and one of the King's gentlemen had sailed, he said: "We will provide your messenger with some good ship for his voyage."
He (Le Sauch) has always been of this opinion, namely, that if compelled to reside in England and take charge of the Imperial affairs here, sooner or later he will get into trouble, for he has not the patience and coolness that are required in diplomacy. Considering the opportunity at hand, he told the Cardinal in plain terms what he thought about the matter. Seemed to take it in good part, but notwithstanding, he (Le Sauch) is sure that, in reality, he is very angry. Cannot say how matters will turn out. Begs for somebody to replace him [in London], for fear he should altogether spoil the negotiation.
Recollects that upon one occasion this King suggested that the post from Flanders, to avoid the dangers of the sea, might come through France. Thought that on the Emperor's request the French would grant the passage without difficulty. Now as the King of France is a prisoner in Spain, it may easily be managed, that all couriers from the Emperor or from Madame, as well as those from the Low Countries, be furnished with permission to pass through France. In this way the Emperor and Madame may regularly have news every month, and perhaps every fortnight. The same may be said with regard to the communications between England and the Low Countries.—London, Friday, the last day of June 1525.
Signed: "Le Sauch."
Addressed: "A Madame la Gouvernante des Pays Bas."
French. Original. pp. 12.


  • n1. A copy of this paper is also in Archives at Brussels, Neg. d, Ang. T. 11, and in Brit. Mus., Add. 28,574, f. 253.
  • n2. His name appears to have been Perott du Warty; he was a gentleman of the King's Privy Chamber, and arrived at Malines on the 11th of June. See a letter of Sir Robert Wingfield, the English ambassador, to Cardinal Wolsey, of the 13th June. Brewer, Letters and Papers, Vol. iv., Part i., p. 629.
  • n3. "Restituido en la posesion mas facilmente se veria la razon del Imperio."
  • n4. "Porque estos juycios italianos son tan delicados y sotiles que á una pequeña cosa dan infinites sentidos."
  • n5. "El Caballero Casal es venido de Inglaterra en Milan. Cada dia se espera aqui. Todo aquello está en calma; dizen que hasta tener respuesta de V. Mag. no haran ninguna deliberacion."
  • n6. "Salia del ordinario de la mucha benivolencia que tiene y ha tenido con sus dineros, offreciendolos no el puño cerrado."
  • n7. Princess Mary.
  • n8. In October of this year the Emperor sent to Lisbon Poupet de Lachaulx, one of his councillors, and Juan de Zuñiga, a brother of the Conde de Miranda, formally to ask for the hand of Isabella, daughter of Don Manuel, King of Portugal; but negotiations for that purpose commenced many months before, when the Emperor was convinced that the hand of Princess Mary, who had not yet attained the age of 12, and the sum of money that was to constitute her dowry, were not forthcoming.
  • n9. "El Cardenal de Inglaterra tienta quanto puede por que el Papa entre en nuevas negociaciones y remueva humores, y le pone grandissima culpa porque no quiere hablar en esto, mostrando que ternia grande aparejo para toda cosa que intentasse."
  • n10. Not in the volume.
  • n11. See No. 117, p. 201.
  • n12. Richard Odall. The letter, which is dated the 3rd, not the 5th of June, may be found in Brewer, Letters and Papers, vol. iv., part i. p. 617.
  • n13. Dr. Cuthbert Tunstall, Bishop of London, Vice-Chancellor and Master of the Rolls of England, had at this time been sent as extraordinary ambassador to Charles, conjointly with Sir Richard Wingfield. They arrived at Rivadeo, on the coast of Galicia, at the end of April. The ordinary resident ambassador at the Imperial court was Dr. Richard Sampson. A very interesting letter from the three English ambassadors (Tunstall, Wingfield, and Sampson), dat. Toledo, 2 June, giving an account of their reception at Court and subsequent proceedings, may be seen in Brewer's Letters and Papers, vol. iv., part i., p. 610.
  • n14. Probably Nicolo Bonnizzi, who, according to Rowdon Brown (Venet. State Papers, iii., p. 636), was a bill-broker in London in 1504.
  • n15. Tunstall and Wingfield. They landed at Rivadeo on the coast of Galicia before the 30th of April, and reached Toledo on Ascension day.
  • n16. "Were met by a chaplain sent by the Emperor to conduct them, a harbinger to get them lodgings, and an 'algusel' to help them to obtain necessaries at reasonable prices," says the very interesting letter of the three English ambassadors to the King, edited by Mr. Brewer, Letters and Papers, &c., vol. iv. part i, p. 610.
  • n17. Beaurain?
  • n18. Henry Courtney, Earl of Devon, Marquis of Exeter.
  • n19. Henry Lord Roos, created Earl of Rutland on this occasion.
  • n20. Sir Henry Lord Clifford, created Earl of Cumberland, Vice-Warden of the West-Marches of Scotland, died 1542.
  • n21. Robert Ratcliffe, Lord Viscount Fitzwalter.
  • n22. Sir Thomas Boleyn, Viscount Rochford.
  • n23. "Touttefois je ne scez si je diz bien, mais il me samble à correction, que l'on ne peult faillir de faire selon que l'on en monstre le chemin aux gens, et par ce moyen ilz le révocqueroient et se garderoint d'y envoyer aultre ny en aultres lieux jusques ilz veissent ou les choses vouldroint tumber."
  • n24. A copy of this letter is in the Archives of Brussels: Negotiations d'Angleterre, Tom. II.; also in Bergenroth's Collection, Brit. Mus., Add. 28,574, f. 270.
  • n25. "Comment il estoit au port de Gennes prest a partyr avecq le Roy de France pour le mener à l'Empereur en Espaigne, pour ce que la saison est trop dangereuse pour le mener à Naples."
  • n26. Not in the Archives.
  • n27. "Toutesfoiz maintient il que non sans condicions. Et à la verité la dite condition est aultrement contenue en nos dites lettres, en l'article ensuyvant cestuy de l'extraict faisant mencion de la communicacion, qu'eult Mons. le President avec luy seul."
  • n28. The copy alluded to is not appended to the original.
  • n29. "Le tout s'est accumulé en son estomac si gros, qu'il ne l'a plus volu porter, et l'a bien volu, comme presupposé, declarer aux ambassadeurs du Roy."
  • n30. On 2d of June the Emperor complained to the English ambassadors residing at Toledo that the Cardinal had called him a liar, lady Margaret a ribald, Archduke Ferdinand a child, and Bourbon a traitor. See Brewer, Letters and Papers, &c., vol. iv., part i., p. 616.
  • n31. "Laissez dire à Mons. de Legat ce qu'il veult, mais qu'il nous face du bien. Que diable nous chault-il de ses parolles?"
  • n32. Zabra in Spanish is the name for a light vessel, generally used to carry despatches.