Spain: October 1530, 1-10

Pages 734-753

Calendar of State Papers, Spain, Volume 4 Part 1, Henry VIII, 1529-1530. Originally published by Her Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1879.

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October 1530, 1-10

1 Oct. 445. Eustace Chapuys to the Emperor.
K. u. K. Haus-
Hof-u.-Staats Arch.
c. 226, No. 41.
Last Sunday the Papal Nuncio went to Court to complain of the edict (constitution) recently promulgated here, and of which I enclosed a copy in my last despatch. Before he was admitted to the Royal presence, he happened to meet the duke of Norfolk in the ante room, and began telling him the cause of his visit, &c. The Duke having requested him to communicate on the subject with the duke of Suffolk and the earl of Wiltshire, the Nuncio represented to them how the said edict had been promulgated to the visible prejudice and vilification (vilipeinne) of the Apostolic See, and how much better it would have been if the King had, through his ambassadors [at Rome], requested His Holiness to forbear from enforcing any measures at variance with the laws and customs of England. The Pope, he observed, had never done anything of the sort in times past, but had always striven to augment rather than diminish the privileges and prerogatives of the King and kingdom. Upon which the said gentlemen began to say that they cared neither for Pope or Popes in this kingdom, not even if St. Peter should come to life again; that the King was absolute both as Emperor and Pope in his own kingdom, and that His Holiness was doing all he possibly could to alienate the affection of the English, who had done him such good service, and shewed him incredible obedience, not, indeed, because they were bound to do so, but quite voluntarily. (fn. n1) After a little more taunting (braveries) of a like nature, the Duke and the others restraining their anger somewhat, said that it now rested entirely with His Holiness to make this king and kingdom more devoted and obedient to him than any other nation in the world, and that would be by acceding to the request made by the King through his late ambassador. If he would not do this he must abide the consequences, for they would do wonders.
After a good deal of argument, the Nuncio took the duke of Norfolk aside, and said they all were greatly mistaken if they thought by such like edicts and statutes to intimidate His Holiness; that his greatness, authority, and magnanimity raised him above all sense of fear, and that they should consider that such disorderly proceedings would in the end redound rather to the discredit of this king and kingdom than of the Pope. The Duke listened for some time to the Nuncio's speech, and then went in to the King's cabinet, who was with his Council for more than an hour before the Nuncio was called in. Once introduced to the Royal presence, the King said to the Nuncio that he did not recollect having had any edict published to the Pope's prejudice, but that if he (the Nuncio) would point out wherein the offence lay, it should be set right. That by virtue of his prerogative and authority he had desired to guard against any opposition to the ordinances which he had already made, and was about to make, in Parliament for the reformation of the Clergy in his dominions, and had purposely avoided delay lest the Pope should in the meantime issue some contrary decretal, and excuse himself on the ground of the practices of the Roman court (sur le stille de la cort), as he did when his ambassadors were cited at Bologna.
Many other things did the King say on this occasion full of covert menaces, from which the Nuncio could clearly gather that the said edicts had been published solely to prevent any measures being taken against him on behalf of the Queen. Then the King complained that the Pope acquainted the Imperial agents [at Rome] with all that passed between himself and the English ambassadors, to whose representations he paid no attention whatever, and that he was greatly surprised at the delay in the return of the messenger he had recently sent to Rome, which could only be occasioned by the Pope's waiting till he could get an answer from Your Majesty. He also said that he had heard that his couriers had been attacked on the road, and was surprised that His Holiness should suffer this; but that he would have this stopped, for that he should lay his case before his good brother, the king of France, who would espouse it as if it were his own, since what concerned the one concerned the other also. At last the King inquired whether the Nuncio had yet spoken to me, and whether I had asked him about the cause of his coming over, and what answer he (the Nuncio) had given. The Nuncio replied that certainly I had put some questions to him about his charge, but that he had answered in general terms without specifying his principal object, at which the King seemed well pleased, telling the Nuncio to communicate as little as possible to me, for I was (he said) far too one-sided in this matter, as he had already stated at their first interview.
The Nuncio has shewn me a letter dated from Paris the 10th ult., in which the Vayvod's agent, who has now resided for some months at the court of France, writes word that having fulfilled the mission on which his master had sent him to the most Christian King, he was obliged to return at once. He was very sorry not to have seen him (the Nuncio) in Paris, as he had several important matters to communicate, and he begged he would send him tidings through the English ambassador at Venice. Now I have reasons to suspect this letter to have been written in England, and that the writer alludes to his departure from Paris merely in order to escape observation in this country. This is, after all, the safest route for him to take, and it is not probable that he could be here [in England] without first having an interview with the King, who has always been on good terms with his master. (fn. n2) I will do my utmost to find out the truth of this matter. This man is the same one who, when Your Majesty was last at Bologna, came as far as Padua on his way to the Pope, but not having a safe-conduct he was obliged to leave, and went to the French court, where he has resided ever since.
The French ambassadors' servants have spread a report that Mons. d'Orleans is coming over here, and some of them have already petitioned Mons. de Norfolk, should he come, to allow them to enter his service. I have not been able to gain any certain information about this, but there seems to be little preparation at present for such an arrival.
The Queen has been rather uneasy at the publication of these prohibitory edicts (cries et prohibitions), as she thinks that if the King so despises the Papal authority, he will not obey any mandate or sentence given by His Holiness, and she is also much grieved at the general course of affairs in this country, which is certainly a very bad precedent, and must lead to dangerous consequences.
This morning a courier arrived, sent on the 20th ult. by the English ambassadors at Rome, by whom His Holiness writes to his Nuncio that in the hope of his succeeding in time in persuading the King to agree to the cause being decided at Rome, His Holiness had, at the special request of the English ambassadors, consented to delay proceedings until news came from the said Nuncio, whom the Pope most earnestly exhorts to do all he can to obtain the King's consent to the above measure. Notwithstanding the said directions, the Nuncio, seeing the King's obstinacy, has not returned to Court with the letters, but has written positively to the Pope, as the enclosed letters will shew, (fn. n3) that it is imperatively necessary for him to proceed at once to pass sentence, since there is no hope whatever of prevailing on the King to alter his course. Bogs that the letters be forwarded at once.
Jehan Jocquin, who accompanied the bishop of Bayonne to Dover on his departure [from this city], has remained in that town until his return here to-day. He stayed there on pretence of re-building a small hermitage on the sea coast near Dover, but probably some more important business detained him there, for though the King summoned him to Court three weeks ago, he has made no haste to come. Some think he is waiting for the arrears of his pensions here, or for the arrival of the Vayvod's agent above named; others say to maintain an appearance of offence at what passed between the King and the Bishop some time ago.—London, 1st October 1530.
Signed: "Eustace Chapuys."
Addressed: "To the Emperor."
Indorsed: "From the ambassador in England; October 1st. Received the 13th."
French. Holograph. pp. 3.
2 Oct. 446. Miçer Mai to the Emperor.
S. E. L. 850,
f. 105.
B. M. Add 28,581,
f. 204.
My despatch of the 15th ult. contained a copy of the petition (memorial) which Andrea [del Burgo] and I, as proctors to the queen of England, presented to His Holiness in her behalf. I had carefully noted on the margin the answer given to the three articles, for the execution of which two letters have been dispatched from hence: one to the Nuncio in France, to obtain possession of the book, (fn. n4) and the other to the Nuncio in England, asking for information on these two points, first respecting the bribery and threats employed in obtaining the seals in England, and secondly to ascertain whether the Queen had or had not been known by her first husband. (fn. n5) My advice is that the Emperor write him a letter, praising his devotion and services, and recommending to him the Queen's interests.
With regard to the other four articles, for which, as I said in the Pope's presence, and before Ancona and Sanctiquatuor, I was waiting, I merely asked for what was put down in the petition itself, viz., first that the universities which had pronounced against the Queen, or rather against the Pope, should be asked what reason they had for so doing, and secondly, that they should now be lawfully convoked, and every doctor called upon to justify his vote on whichever side it was given, and that no university should give an opinion in this matter without receiving first full information from here. (fn. n6)
With regard to the brief, I have applied for one enjoining the King to separate from his mistress (la señora que ama), and for Parliament to take no cognizance at all of the affair; they have promised that I should have it after due notice being given to the English ambassadors.
The above is said to prove that had it not been for Ancona, who, as related, was present when the Pope promised all this, and a good deal more, nothing would have been obtained. He (Ancona) promised me still more the other day, but I consider this sufficient for the present, and beg Your Majesty to acknowledge the services of that cardinal and write him a letter of commendation, for certainly he has been very useful on this occasion, and may be more so in future.
The English ambassadors have presented to the Pope a very disgraceful letter from the Kingdom, of which I have very secretly obtained a copy. It must likewise be kept secret [in Germany] for fear the present negociations about the Council should be put an end to. They tell me that the original has many more signatures that could not be read or transcribed. Your Majesty will have it examined by competent people, when it will be found that the whole document is badly conceived and worse expressed, though I rather think this has been done on purpose, and that many things the King himself did not like to say he causes others to say for him. An answer is to be made here such as they deserve, and a brief issued at the same time, forbidding them under grave censures to have the affair at all discussed in their parliaments or elsewhere. As this, however, might be concealed from the Queen, I shall not feel satisfied until they give me the brief separately.
More than a month ago the English ambassadors pressed the Pope to say beforehand what declaration he is about to make in the case. This, as the Pope himself told me at the time, and as I have since heard from another quarter, he has refused, having resisted their applications until now. I can easily believe it, because it behoves him (le está bien) to do so, and the English complain of it. (fn. n7)
The said ambassadors have since asked for a delay of 15 days after the commencement of term, which the Pope has refused to grant without my consent. This I would not for a long time give, but at last being greatly importuned by the English (que le matavan), he (the Pope) sent for me and for Ancona, that both might persuade me to grant the said delay. The Pope was the first to mention the thing to me, he, and Ancona, remarking, as is their wont, that a delay of 15 days was nothing at all, and might give time for the King to appear here at Rome, &c., but when he heard what I had to say in reply, he agreed that I was right and that he would no longer entertain the subject. At last he proposed a middle course, which was not to open the Rota until the 8th of October, and as nothing is usually done in the first week after its opening this would be equal to granting them the 15 days' delay.
The ambassadors insist on two points which they allege as sufficiently strong to justify the Pope in dissolving the King's marriage without a legal process: the first, as set forth in the letter from the notables, in order that the Kingdom may not remain without an heir male; the second, the protest which they say the King made once, as I have already written to Your Majesty, by virtue of which he considers himself not only as released before God [from his marriage] (fn. n8) but as being actually in mortal sin by continuing in it, this being his principal reason for the divorce. This last course, I am told, has been advised by Decio; but both are equally false and bad, and have been very triumphantly answered here "en derecho." I am, however, sure that the Pope will not give in, firstly because I have his most solemn promise, and secondly, because it would be so unfit for him to grant such a thing; indeed even if he were inclined to do so his cardinals would not follow him. (fn. n9)
Decio's opinion in this matter has actually turned this people crazy (les torna locos), because he still maintains that there was no sufficient cause for the dispensation. I told Your Majesty in one of my last despatches that Decio was once my master, and that I had written to Don Lope [de Soria] to procure me a copy of his opinion (consejo). I have now got it and keep it by me, as it may be useful to know beforehand the arguments of our opponents that we may the better defeat them. I have great confidence that we shall be able to do so in the end, and have already begun to study the case during the few hours that my official duties permit me. Decio himself, as I presume, will help, for he says that he will write the very contrary of what he has written, if we only pay him for it. (fn. n10)
Your Majesty will be glad to hear that here this very year, among the Roman Jews, one has been compelled to marry the widow of his brother, who had died without children, a thing which not only is not prohibited, as we maintain, but is actually enjoined by Jewish law.
It may be that with Decio's authority in his favour, the King may take courage to come over here for the trial, the more so that, if he does not, he runs the risk of being condemned by contumacy (en rebeldia.) I wish it above all things.
The papers and deeds that were to come from England and Castille have not yet been received; without them the cause cannot be prosecuted.
These ambassadors are soliciting a cardinal's hat for the Auditor of the Chamber (Ghinucci). The Pope is gradually being persuaded into this (se va intrincando). He says that he has given commission to the Baron del Borgo, his nuncio in England, to inquire whether it be true or not that the King wishes for the said Auditor to be made a cardinal. The answer, to be sure, will be that not only does the King wish for the hat to be given him, but that he is ready to send an ambassador expressly for that purpose. I am very much afraid that the Pope will in the end pledge his word and proceed, as he did in the case of Tarbes, because, though I warned him in time, as I have done in the present case, and he has promised to keep my warning in mind, the result will perhaps be the same. Of the Auditor I am still more afraid, for by being promoted to the cardinalate he leaves the best and most lucrative office in Rome.
The French and English both complain that Scalenga (De Scalengues) intercepts their correspondence at Asti. I believe this to be untrue, or at least very much exaggerated. Yet not to give them matter for complaint at the present moment, a letter might be written to Scalenga about it, which might be shewn to the French and English ambassadors at the Imperial court.
The king of England writes to Sir Gregory Casale that a charge has been brought against him to the effect that he had not used proper diligence in this matter, which, he says, he cannot believe, and newly commits the affair to his care, and promises great rewards if he should succeed. Casale is rather touchy, and has, as I am told, written in his own justification a very long and very discreet letter, (fn. n11) wherein he tells the King many truths respecting the affairs he has here in hand, warning him not to be deceived by false reports.
I mentioned in another despatch that Casale did at one time earnestly request me to allow the cause to be prorogued till the convocation or the meeting of the [General] Council, which request in my opinion is sufficiently indicative of what the king of England is aiming at. I am, moreover, told, as I did inform Your Majesty, that had not the Florentines come to terms, the English themselves would have undertaken the defence of the city. (fn. n12)
The same Gregory Casale promised to cardinal Trani, who certainly is not one of the most learned or respected in the Sacred College—an income of 10,000 ducats in England. As the world acts on such low and interested motives, the Cardinal himself told this to d'Osma, and some time after talking to [cardinal] Tortosa boasted that he could easily, if he chose, get a larger sum from the one or from the other of the parties, and that most certainly he did not intend to let such opportunity pass.
Reminds the Emperor of a request he once made in Mantua respecting the naturalization of Miçer Silvestro, the auditor of Ancona.—Rome, 2nd October 1530.
Signed: "Mai."
Addressed: "S. C. et C. Mti."
Spanish. Original. pp. 4.
2 Oct. 447. The Same to the Empress.
S. E. L. 85
f. 107.
B. M. Add. 28,581,
f. 215.
Wrote in September last by the ordinary post. Since then the state of the divorce case is as follows: The cause has been prosecuted with the re-commencement of term. The Pope himself and others have importuned him (Mai) to prorogue it for 15 more days, but this he has persistently refused, as he has been deceived two or three or four times already, and received besides positive orders from the Emperor to prosecute the affair. The Pope has behaved so well in the matter that, although the English ambassadors earnestly requested him for this delay, he never would grant it without his (Mai's) consent. Is, however, in a very awkward position, for should the cause commence again, and the papers and documents required for the defence not arrive, he might find himself in a fix. The Emperor wrote some time ago that the papers from Spain would soon be forwarded. Begs earnestly for them.— Rome, 2nd October 1530.
Spanish. Holograph, p. 1.
2 Oct. 448. The Same to the High Commander.
S. E. L. 850,
f. 106.
B.M. Add. 28,581,
f. 217.
The bearer of this despatch is a servant of the Imperial ambassador in England (Chapuys), who is returning thither with letters for his master. The despatch itself goes separately and under cover to Your Lordship, because as the man has been so closely watched whilst here, it is probable that on his arrival in England or perhaps in France he will be strictly searched. (fn. n13) I have given him an unimportant despatch to carry, that he may shew it in case of his being searched, and that they may not suspect that he has any more with him.
Cardinal Santa Croce went four or five days ago to see Andrea del Burgo, and told him that if the division of the war contribution between the Italian potentates was in any way opposed, the Pope might and ought to devote to that object one-third of all the Church revenues throughout Christendom, sending five or six cardinals to collect the money. He him self offered to go to Spain for the purpose.
Andrea, knowing his master to be in such want of help just now, easily believed the Cardinal's words, but remembering what passed at Valladolid and other places when supplies for the Turkish war were demanded, and the great difficulties that stood in the way of obtaining them from the Cortes, I have taken care to inform the Cardinal that he had better not make such propositions to His Holiness before consulting with Your Majesty.—Rome, 2nd October 1530.
Signed: "Mai."
Addressed: "To the Sacred Majesty of the Emperor and King, our Sovereign Lord."
Spanish. Holograph. pp. 2.
2 Oct. 449. Martin de Salinas to Secretary Juan Vazquez.
M. Re. Ac. d. Hist.,
c. 71, f. 246.
I wrote on the 25th ult. by Muñoz, (fn. n14) announcing my arrival at Valladolid. Gave Alvaro de Lugo the letter and instructions whereof he (Muñoz) was the bearer. He (Lugo) shewed readiness to obey the orders of the Council, but said that the clerk who kept the accounts being absent eight leagues beyond Burgos he could not possibly attend to the business himself unless his assistant was sent for, which was done immediately by means of an express. Calculating that it would take the messenger at least six days to go to Burgos and back, I came here to Tordesillas begging Alvaro de Lugo, as soon as his clerk had returned, to let me know that I might send the treasurer to Medina [del Campo]. Seeing, however, that the period fixed for the return of the messenger had already been exceeded by two days, I wrote to Lugo and dispatched a messenger with my letter, informing him that in discharge of my duty to the Empress I had made up my mind to send a courier and acquaint her with the fact, explaining that it was no fault of mine if the affair did not progress. Lugo's answer is enclosed, whereby His Highness will see how the delay has originated.
This morning a servant of the Fuggers came to me and presented a bill of exchange drawn by the King, my master, for the 55,000 ducats which I had received. I accepted the bill at once and promised to pay it 20 days after sight. Now it behoves Your Worship to speak to the factor of the Fucares (Fuggers) at that court, whose name is Guido Horrelo, and ascertain from him how he wishes to remit this money to Germany, for the King, my master, writes that when the contract with that banking house was made it was agreed that they should have every facility to take the money out of these kingdoms. However, as the clerk who came to see me the other day stated that it was the intention of his principals to remit the money to Portugal, or else to have it taken up in Castille, it is evident that whatever they do with the money they will be responsible for it in Germany. This is no business of mine, the bill shall be paid when due and the Council will give the necessary safe-conduct to have the coin sent out of the country if necessary.
This very day Francisco de Salazar arrived, though without letters from Your Worship. I have no doubt press of business has been the cause. I perused his instructions, and was glad to observe that nothing has been omitted for the good issue o this affair and to ensure the measures taken both by the treasurer and by myself. The King, my master, has engaged to deliver the 150,000 ducats at Fuentarrabia; there the money will remain until I take it to the Fuggers. The latter, on the other hand, have engaged to deliver it in whatever town of Germany or Flanders is most convenient for His Royal Highness. So at least the King informs me in his ciphered letter, of which a copy is enclosed, (fn. n15) as well as that of the bills of exchange, &c. I believe the bankers themselves will come down here to cash the bills (á requerirme), for a letter lately received from Francisco de Salamanca informs me that they purpose coming with him. If they do not come I intend making every preparation in order to save time. The treasurer and myself have therefore agreed to commission the two gentlemen who came first and send them on with the money according to the instructions received from the King. They will start four days after the funds are in our hands, the 55,000 crs. will go first, and after that the treasurer and myself will proceed to Fuentarrabia with the rest of the money, each by a different route, and in the most secret manner, so as not to awaken suspicion, for I am known all over this country, have been seen several times coming to Spain and returning to Germany, and people will naturally wonder what I have come about. The further to avoid suspicion it has been agreed that the treasurer, whom nobody knows here, will take as far as Fuentarrabia the whole of the money there to be paid into the hands of the agent of the Fuggers. For the better execution of this plan it is requisite that Your Worship give us orders to have as many pack horses (azemilas) and mules as we may want. The order to come en blanco so as to be filled up according to our wants, a similar one for post horses and mules. (fn. n16)
Another warrant is required for Sancho Martinez de Leyva, his son or lieutenant (lugar teniente), commanding all persons on their passage to assist and protect them and guard them with all possible secrecy.—Tordesillas, 2nd October 1530.
Addressed: "To Secretary Juan Vazquez."
Spanish. Original draft. pp. 1½.
7 Oct. 450. Dr. Garay to the Emperor.
P. Arch. Nat.
S. K. 1,483
B. M. Add. 28,581,
f. 219.
Your Majesty's letter of the 31st July has been duly received. Though not of recent date, it has afforded me great satisfaction, observing that my services to the queen of England have been taken into consideration. Had the letter come in time, and given me the powers with which I am now invested, I have no doubt that much harm might have been prevented, and Your Majesty would not have had so much mental anxiety.
I have not seen Mr. de Noicarme (Noircames), nor do I know him. I would willingly have spoken to him on account of the credence he brings, and that he may advise what is to be done. If I meet him, I will endeavour to execute Your Majesty's commands most faithfully.
Since I wrote last nothing new has occurred worth mentioning, except that this king has given orders that all the acts done in our Faculty should be taken up to him. Though the order was secret I was informed of it in time, and God permitted that I should be the instrument of discovering some flaws in the acts, for otherwise all would have been irretrievably lost. (fn. n17) Among the papers sent up to the King was first, a copy of the debate (contension), in favour of the king of England; second, the list of the doctors who gave opinion for the Queen; third, my own opposition and protest; fourth, the appeal with the names and signatures of those who drew it up, &c., the whole being signed by the bedel of our Faculty.
I immediately informed Your Majesty's ambassador of the fact, that he might get the said acts into his hands, or at least an attested copy of them—as I once promised to Messieurs Praët and Guillaume des Barres—though I must say that up to the present hour nothing has been done in this matter. Lastly, I had a long conversation with the first president of this French Parliament (principal cause of all this evil) trying to persuade him to allow the bedel [of the Faculty] to give me a copy of the whole, begging and entreating him, at the same time, not to be the cause of a peace like this present, cemented by the marriage of the most Christian King to Your Majesty's sister (Eleanor) being broken off. The president's answer was that he could not possibly order the bedel of the Faculty to furnish me the attested copy I wanted. Were he to do so, his property and his life, though a priest, would be at stake. (fn. n18)
I then addressed myself to the notary who witnessed the appeal, but could never obtain from him a formal act to that effect. I have, besides, written several times to Madame [Margaret]. Her answer is that the Imperial ambassadors have been duly instructed to act in this affair according to my directions; I myself have written so much and so often about it that I am really ashamed. Your Majesty may believe me when I say that, as far as I am concerned, nothing has been omitted to forward this affair, importuning the King even to excess, as the ambassador once told me; but where justice, or the love of it is wanting, all efforts are useless. The queen of England, on the other hand, advises that she has written to her niece (queen Eleanor) to congratulate her on her coronation, and at the same time to ask for her help and assistance in this affair. I cannot tell what will be the upshot of it; but I have very little hope as far as this king and country are concerned. As to Rome, I have written long ago to His Holiness setting forth the Queen's right, and the scandal likely to arise in Christendom. The better to convince him, I represented how much his honour, reputation, and authority would be affected by a yielding on this point, not forgetting to quote the writers and divines, who from the times of Origen down to our present day maintain that the Pope has the power of dispensing in similar cases. I reminded him that not four years ago he himself had granted dispensation to a gentleman of Mans, (fn. n19) called Mr. de Luce, to marry the sister of his first wife deceased, though the petitioner had not an income of 2,000 ducats a year. And lastly, I proved to him that the majority of the doctors of moral reputation and letters now living considered the Queen's marriage as perfectly legitimate, and that most of the English, all their bishops, the university of Louvain, and the whole of Italy (with the exception only of a few doctors without fame or learning), held the same opinion.
Here in France (I take God to witness that I am not in the habit of telling untruths, especially in cases of this sort, and when addressing Your Majesty) I do not hesitate to say there are not three men of good moral life and learning, uncorrupted by the English, who dare affirm the contrary; since, notwithstanding the violence, compulsion, and threats that have been practised, we have the votes of 46 doctors in our favour, without including in that number six or seven more who were absent at the last meeting of the Faculty but signed a similar conclusion on a former occasion.
All this and a good deal more I wrote to Your Majesty's ambassador at Rome (Miçer Mai) months ago, that he might shew my letter to the Pope, as I believe he has since done, for they tell me that he is very sorry at what has occurred here in Paris. Yet nothing, as far as I know, has been done to turn aside this evil, even though the simple narration of facts was enough to provoke some strong measures on his part.—Paris, 7th October 1530.
Signed: "Garay."
Spanish. Holograph. pp. 3.
9 Oct. 451. Martin de Salinas to Secretary Juan Vazquez.
M. Re. Ac. d. Hist.,
c. 71, f. 248.
I wrote on Sunday, the 2nd inst., advising my arrival [at Tordesillas], and the reasons Alvaro de Lugo gave for not attending immediately to business. His book-keeper (he said) was absent on leave, and until his return he could not make up his accounts. A message was accordingly sent to the clerk to return to his post, but as six days passed and the clerk did not come, I was obliged to dispatch to Valladolid Alonso de Landa, the treasurer, to inquire into the causes of the delay, that I might at once write home and not incur further responsibility. It was settled that four days after, on Wednesday, the 5th inst., Lugo should be at Medina del Campo whether his clerk returned or not. Thirteen days have thus been lost, as I will inform the Emperor on the very first opportunity. But there is another difficulty which must needs be obviated, if the Emperor's wishes are to be complied with, viz., this: Ochoa de Landa, the treasurer, called upon Alvaro de Lugo on Thursday, the 6th inst., when after dinner they proceeded to count up the money without the cashier being present. The latter, as it would appear, had received the money by weight at a certain rate agreed upon between him and the clerks of the Imperial treasury, Diego de Ayala and Machin de Plazencia. The money is in five large sacks, of five "pesos," or 40 marks each, making 15,000 one with another. The weight of the five sacks added up together makes 15,000, so that the 100 are calculated for any deficiences in the weight, say 1%. Were we to receive them at this present rate, which is 10,000 in each bag, and not by weight, Her Majesty would lose upwards of 2,000 crs., and the paymaster would be benefited by that sum. As Lugo refuses to give it otherwise than by weight, as he received it, without taking into consideration this difference, it is necessary that an order come from Her Majesty [the Empress] for him (Lugo) to deliver the silver by weight, as he received it. To avoid the trouble of weighing the sacks, and to save time, I am willing to receive them labelled as they are with their respective weight, signed and sealed by Diego de Ayala and another silversmith. This is in my opinion, the only way of proceeding in this affair; otherwise, much time will be lost in the counting, and besides when the specie reaches Fuentarrabia, the agent of the Fuggers may probably refuse to receive them otherwise than by weight, as Her Majesty received them, of which fact they are no doubt aware, being among the quickest and shrewdest people in their profession. For the greater secrecy in this affair it has been decided that His Highness' treasurer take the 100,000 ducats to Fuentarrabia. However, as there is no news yet of the agent of the Fuggers having reached that place, the treasurer is to deposit the money at his own house in Alava, and then proceed to that place on the frontier. Should they not be there he is to wait for them until they have arrived, then return for the money and make the delivery in due form.
I have received the copy of Your Worship's letter addressed to the King, as well as the memorandum of the sale of Ramiro Nuñez' estates, but the letter from the High Commander was not in the packet.—Tordesillas, 9th October 1530.
Addressed: "To the President."
Spanish. Original draft. p. 2.
10 Oct. 452. Miçer Mai to the Emperor.
S. E. L. 850,
f. 108-10.
B. M. Add. 28,581
f. 222.
After his despatch of the 10th, he (Mai) heard that a courier from France had arrived with letters of the 22nd ult.. Tried in vain to ascertain their contents, but the Pope shewed him one he had received from cardinal Faenza, the substance of which is (cipher:) that although the French wish to make it appear that they will preserve peace, they are nevertheless collecting all the money they can, and openly declare to those whom they can trust that next spring they will promote disturbances in Italy, calculating that about that time the Emperor will be engaged in war with the Turk. To this end the court of France was stopping at most insignificant places (lugarejos), because it was thought that these secret plans might better escape unobserved. Cardinal Faenza is a nephew of Alberto di Carpi and therefore his report cannot be suspected, both his uncle and he being supposed to wish for an Italian war.
The Pope also said that Tarbes had been to take leave of him, and was actually returning [to France]. The duke of Albany was coming, as he thought, in his room to treat of a marriage between his (the Pope's) niece and the king of Scotland, intending to abandon altogether the idea of the French marriage; but he (Tarbes) begged the Pope not to take any engagements until he received a letter from him immediately upon his return to France. He was sure that the King still wished his son, the duke of Orleans, to marry Madame Catarina, and therefore desired to know what were his (the Pope's) intentions. The Pope answered that if only he could be persuaded that the proposition was in earnest, nothing could be more agreeable to him; but that if the duke of Albany should again come, as he had at other times, and ask for her hand even in the King's name, he would refuse. The conversation went on for some time on this topic, until Tarbes suggested that if the Pope gave his niece the cities of Parma and Piacenza as a dower, his master, the King, giving the Pope an equivalent, he had not the least doubt that the affair might be easily arranged. When the Pope said this to me I could not help remarking that the French were evidently trying to get footing in Italy again, and that if I were the Pope they would not deceive me. To which the Pope resolutely replied "Nor me either; I knew them long before you did."
It appears that Tarbes and his friends think much of Malatesta, and that His Holiness is somewhat afraid of him, owing to his still keeping most of his men in the Perugino. I told His Holiness that there was no fear of that "condottiero" doing anything unpleasant, for he could not return to Perugia without our permission, as it had been so agreed with Your Majesty's generals.
I heard, some time ago, from a good source, that the Auditor of the Apostolic Chamber (Ghinucci) had bought two original bulls among those issued by pope Julius before his death, prescribing how and under what conditions the elections of Popes were to be made in future: which bulls, they say, contain very binding clauses (que es muy estrecha cosa). Now as it is hardly to be presumed that the said Auditor had not one copy at least of the bulls in the archives of his own office, the circumstance of his buying these two just at the time that he was dispatching a courier to England, made me suspect that they had been sent thither for the purpose of seeing what harm the English can do with or without a council. I deemed it fit for the Pope to know all this, because, although, being naturally very timid, the intelligence will frighten him most tremendously, which, in my opinion, is a thing to be avoided, yet it will, at the same time, have the effect of irritating him against the English, who besides have so many means at hand to frighten him out of his wits, that in reality one more cause of fear weighs but little in the balance. The Pope thanked me for the information, and wished to know where the bulls had been bought, and for what price.
In my opinion the Pope's fears are not unfounded. Putting aside other minor considerations, he ought to be warned, as I intend discreetly to do on the first opportunity, that if one of the said bulls, which, as I said before, is very close and binding, should be presented at a general council, Your Majesty would have the greatest difficulty in helping him, even if you wished, and that even without the Council taking effect, the danger might still be very great, the matter becoming yet more important on account of the English imagining that they can make a Pope of their own.
Respecting the English business I wrote to Your Majesty that I had consented to a prorogation of the proceedings, in consequence of the audiences having been adjourned until the 15th inst., on the plea that the senior president (decano) of the Rota, who is also the commissary of the cause, was unwell. I have lodged a formal complaint (quexa) before the Pope; but it appears that the said functionary is really ill in bed. I have also been told that during these last vacations the Pope has caused certain doubtful points (dudas) on Luther's case to be studied here by the members of the Rota.
Being informed that the bishop of Bayonne (Jean du Bellay), French ambassador in London, had suddenly quitted that country and returned to France without any apparent reason, my suspicions were raised, and I made inquiries. My information leads me to believe that the English king again wishes His Holiness to commit the cause of the divorce to the archbishop of Canterbury, or to the clergy of his dominions, and that for this end he has solicited the favour and influence of the most Christian King of France. It would appear, however, that the said Bishop [of Bayonne] and king Henry not agreeing exactly as to the terms of the letter to be written to the Pope, the former returned suddenly to France, where, at Court, the letter was concocted, though not so expressive (tan grasa) as the English ambassadors here wished it to be.
The king of France, moreover, has sent to notify to the Pope, through Mr. de Tarbes, that it was only in order to escape from the English importunities that he had consented to write such a letter, &c.
Baron del Borgo, the Papal Nuncio in England, writes to say that on his arrival at Dobla (Dover), he found an order from the King prohibiting all people from coming to, or going out of, his kingdom without his permission, which order, however was soon after revoked.
The duke of Albany, as I am told, will embark at Turi (?), and will come by water as far as Ravenna. I am sorry for this because he will have to pass by the centre of Italy, and Ravenna is very close to Venice, where the duke of Milan is already, and where the duke of Ferrara, now at Comachio, intends going also, &c. I have written to Pero Çapata, Don Lope [de Soria], and Lorenço Manuel to have an eye on the Duke and see what he is about; also to the Imperial ambassador in France, for I hear that Tarbes, who was to return by way of Florence, has suddenly changed his mind, and is going through Ferrara, where, as I am informed, they are preparing great entertainments for his reception.
The Italian universities, and their contribution to the expenses of the Turkish war, &c.
As Tarbes was going away he came to see me, and we had a long conversation together on the king of England's cause. I requested him, since he must be well aware of the general opinion here [at Rome], and what the most learned and impartial among the canonists think, to do everything in his power to promote the ends of justice. He promised to do so, but at the same time he strongly recommended a delay of a half or a whole year, or perhaps even more, because, he observed, "after all the King is principally stirred on to action by amours, which come and go, whereas the justice of the Queen's cause stands firm, and therefore there can be no harm in the delay, however long." I tried to dissuade Tarbes in fit terms, and I only transmit his very words (cipher:) that Your Majesty may know that delay is the policy of the French, for they think thereby to become in time the arbiters of a quarrel between us and England, just as the English were, or at least wished to be, at one time, between Your Majesty and them. Tarbes went still further on this subject; he said that during this delay Your Majesty might visit England, or send for the King, and then you might settle your differences together.
These overtures of Tarbes must by all means be kept secret, for they would work wonderfully against Your Majesty's interests were they to be bruited about. I must add that these people are not without certain fears of so much friendship between France and England at this time, and though Tarbes' proposal might ultimately turn out to Your Majesty's profit, it ought at any rate to be kept secret for the present.
Respecting the duke of Albany's journey he (Tarbes) assured me that my suspicions were unfounded. The Duke (he said) had come to Italy merely for his own private affairs, as I should soon discover, for in all likelihood I should be called upon to mediate between the Pope and him. Count Pontremoli, he said, was to remain as ambassador for the King's private affairs.
Since this, and in consequence of the arrival of another courier [from France], Tarbes has again delayed his departure. I hear that he has been urging Madona Felice to send one of her sons to France, assuring her that not only would an agreement be soon made [in France] respecting the abbot of Farfa, her brother, but that her son would remain in the King's service with a good command. The lady, herself, has sent us word (cardinal d'Osma and me) that she has flatly refused Tarbes' offers, and wishes for no other service for her sons but the Imperial. (Cipher:) This and other similar practices of the French make me suspect that some political intrigue is going on unless all these reports are mere inventions and tricks of their ambassador.
I have written enough about Bracciano, and about the Pope's shifting policy towards the abbot of Farfa. There was much swaggering at one time; His Holiness would do this, and that; he would ultimately pull down to its foundations that stronghold (of the Orsini), and yet nothing was done; indeed it seemed at one time as if the Abbot was going to be forgiven. The undertaking has now been entrusted to Giovan Paolo de Chierry (da Ceri), which in my opinion is the greatest hoax (burla) that could be imagined. I cannot understand the cause of so much forbearance with the Abbot, nor of the favours which the Pope now bestows on Giovan Paolo! It occurs to me that perhaps certain secrets of the duke of Ferrara, of which Giovan Paolo is said to be in possession, and the Pope wishes to get hold of, may be the cause of such extraordinary conduct on his part.
The duke of Mantua, since the death of the marchioness of Montferrato, pretends that he is not obliged to marry Doña Giulia. The other day a servant of his ambassador here happened to say within hearing of one of my spies that perhaps it would be better for the Duke (cipher:) not to be commander-in-chief of Your Majesty's armies in Italy, as he might then resume the negociations once carried on in France for his marriage to Madame de Navarre, or else to the Pope's own niece, receiving as a dower Parma and Piacenza. I repeat these reports, though mere servant-hall talking, because the reporter has the reputation of being an honourable man, and it is proper that Your Majesty should know everything that is said here.
Departure of the Pope for Ostia on the 4th.—Inundation at Rome.—The Pope and the ambassador passed 48 hours at Monte Cavallo without being able to enter Rome.—The damage done amounts to a million of ducats.
Plague at Naples.
Arrival of Andrea Doria at Genoa with his 31 galleys.
Rumours of the death of the chancellor of France (cardinal du Prat.)
The bishop of Chieti (Theatino) elected at Venice to be arbiter in the dispute between the king of Hungary and the Signory.—Rome, 10th October 1530.
Signed: "Mai."
10 Oct. 453. The Same to the High Commander. (fn. n20)
S. E. L. 848, f. 15.
B. M. Add. 28,581.
f. 231.
Reports conversation he had with the Pope respecting the contribution to be raised among the Italian princes for the purpose of dispatching the Imperial forces to Hungary.
An ambassador from France is coming to Milan to demand from the duke Francesco payment of certain sums spent upon the marquis of Saluzzo's force, when he came to his relief [in 1527.]
Affairs of Siena, &c.
In my letter to the Emperor I state that the English are endeavouring to get the cause committed to the archbishop of Canterbury [or to the Clergy]. I have, however, learnt since, that what they are aiming at is that in case of the King's marrying again, the Pope may not proceed against him. For many reasons the Pope ought not to listen to the demands of the English, or dispute with them; but since he has, I have urged him as strongly as possible to answer them as they deserve. This he has promised to do to-day. The cause goes on. Nevertheless, I have insisted on the new inhibition, and they have promised it to me. May this be done!—Rome, 10th October 1530.
Spanish. Holograph. pp. 2.
10 Oct. 454. The Divorce.
S. E. L. 4, ff. 120,
121, and 122.
B. M. Add. 28,581,
f. 236.
The points about which Miçer Mai ought to be properly instructed are as follows: 1. In the original treaty (capitulacion) between the king of England (Henry VII.) and the Catholic king (Ferdinand) about the marriage of Henry [VIII.] with Katharine are two or three declaratory words (palabras asertivas) indicating that the marriage with prince Arthur was consummated. In the dispensation brief, however, no affirmation of the fact is made except by the word "forsan." It is, therefore, to be considered whether the exhibition of a document containing such a word is expedient or not. (fn. n21) A copy of the brief of pope Julius to the king of England [Henry VII.] dispensing for the Queen's second marriage will be sent by the first courier.
The documents which it is now important to produce in the Queen's behalf, and the originals of which ought to be procured and sent to Rome, are as follows:—
1st. The treaty (capitulacion) for the second marriage, approved and ratified, and afterwards confirmed by the Catholic sovereigns (Ferdinand and Isabella) on the 24th of September 1503, before secretary Almazan at Saragossa.
2nd. A treaty (capitulacion) of peace between the Catholic sovereigns and the king of England, for the first marriage in the year 1489, besides another separate instruction drawn by secretary Alvarez, at Toledo, and Mossen Coloma, at Valencia.
The deeds (escripturas) to be presented in virtue of the compulsory letters (compulsoriales) are the following:—
1stly. The second treaty (capitulacion) between the Catholic sovereigns (Ferdinand and Isabella) and king Henry VII. for the marriage of his son Henry [VIII].
2ndly. The power given by the Catholic sovereigns to Hernan Duque [de Estrada] (fn. n22) to demand the 100,000 crs. from the king of England, and let her (the Queen) return to Spain with her household. [To search for letters of that ambassador in which he wrote that the King (Henry VII.) did not wish the Princess to return, or otherwise restore her property, and also letters from the King himself upon the same subject.]
A letter signed by Henry VIII. acknowledging the receipt of 500,000 crs. for the dower of the second marriage signed and sealed.
A bond given by certain Genoese [bankers] to pay Henry VIII. 45,000 crs. as part of the said dower.
A copy of another letter, signed by a notary, of the payment of 100,000 crs. as dower of the first marriage.
An account of the expenditure of 200,000 crs. of the first marriage. [This Dr. Beltran took to be examined by experts.]
A letter of Ferdinand, the Catholic king, in the possession of the said Doctor [Beltran] ought also to be presented, as the King says in it that he will make a greater war [against the French] than against the Turk. (It is a copy.)
A letter from Henry VIII. [to king Ferdinand] after his marriage, stating that he was well satisfied, and also about his coronation in 1509.
Two more letters from Henry VII. asking for respite for the payment of the dowry, and stating that he has forborne to accept some other proposal of marriage with more money, in order to retain [the dowry ?] (fn. n23)
Also a letter written by the said king of England [Henry VII.] to pope Alexander [the Sixth] (fn. n24) upon the dispensation for the second marriage, the letter being dated 28th November 1504.
Another letter ought to be presented from king Ferdinand (to pope Alexander?); the former one is in the hands of Dr. Beltran, and was delivered to him by the archbishop of Toledo.
Spanish. Contemporary copy. pp. 4.
10 Oct. 455. The Divorce.
S. E. Trat. c. Ing.
L. 4, f. 718.
B. M. Add. 28,581,
f. 236.
The following are the names of the lawyers and divines who gave opinions in the case of the queen of England, which opinions were duly transmitted to Miçer Mai, the Imperial ambassador at Rome:—
One from Albertino, inquisitor at Valencia.
Ditto from the university of Seville.
Ditto from Licte Pisa.
Ditto from Fray Miguel de Sant Sebastian, professor at the college of San Pablo de Valladolid.
Ditto from the college of Santa Cruz in the same town.
Another shorter one from the said Fray Miguel de Sant Sebastian.
Ditto from the guardian of Saint Francis at Valladolid.
Ditto from the archdeacon of Toledo.
Spanish. Original. p. 1.


  • n1. "Les susdits seigneurs luy commençarent (sic) a dire quil navoint affere en ce royaume ne de Pape ne de Papes, se oeres que resuscita Sainct Pierre, cart le Roy estoit Empereur et Pape absolu en son royaume, et que sa sainctete tenoit tous moyens a luy possibles pour soy alliener de la volente de ce royaume que luy avoit fait tant de service et monstre incredible obedience, sans toutesfoys y avoer tel debuver (devoir) may seullement de pure gratuité"
  • n2. "Je doubteres que le dit homme naye escripte la lettre estant desia en ce peys mesme, et quil aye signiffie son departement de Paris affin que lon ne pregne garde sur luy, et nest vraysemblable que estant çy pres de ce roy auquel son dit maystre a cu tosiours intelligence, attendu ausy que cest son plus seur chemin, quil passe sans saluer le roy."
  • n3. No copy is appended of these letters of the Nuncio to the Pope; but most likely it is the one under No. 429, dated the 16th September.
  • n4. "Para que cobre aquel libro," probably the one mentioned by Garay in his letter of the 9th of April.
  • n5. "Y si la Reyna fue conocida del primer maride."
  • n6. "Y que ninguna universidad aconseje en este caso sin ser informada de aqui de él."
  • n7. "Mas ha de un mes que estos angleses (sic) combaten al Papa que les diga lo que ha de declarar; el qual, segun me dize, y yo lo he sabido despues por otras partes, se ha bien defendido hasta agora, y yo lo creo porque a él le está bien, y porque los angleses se quexan dello."
  • n8. "Et qual dise quo a lo menos quanto á Dios no es ligado a matrimonio."
  • n9. "Y soy seguro que el Papa no lo hará, no solo perque me lo ha prometido pero por que ni le estaria [á él] bieu, ni le seguirian los cardenales."
  • n10. "Y ahun el mesmo Decio por su virtud promete que escriuirá en contrario si le pagan."
  • n11. "El Casal es algo vivo, y por su honra ha escripto segun me dicen a su Rey las verdades de lo que alcança por aca y que allá no le engañen; plega (sic) a Dios que aproveche."
  • n12. "A no concertarse lo de Florentia, ellos se [lo?] desconcertaran porque tomaran la defensio[...] de ella."
  • n13. "Porque sin dubda como aqui le han assechado allá, le reconoseerau."
  • n14. Not in the register book. Juan Vazquez was at this time the secretary to the Council of Castille.
  • n15. Not in the register.
  • n16. "La cedula [para las mulas] puede rezar con titulo que son bagas (?) que su Mt. enbia a la reyna de Francia ó se envian de Portogal."
  • n17. "Y quiso Dios que allé [en que] corregir todo el caso, que de otra suertc iba todo perdido."
  • n18. "Respondiome que no podia pedirlo al bedel, y que corre peligro de sus bienes y la cabeza, aunque es sacerdote, sy tal cosa hiziese."
  • n19. "Y que él mesmo no a quatro años, con un gentil hombre en este reyno en Omans (au Mans?) que llaman Mos. du Luce, dispenso que tubiese por mugeres dos hermanas, muerta la primera; hombre quo pienso no tenia 11m ducados de rental."
  • n20. A note in the hand of one of the clerks of the Archives has the following: "This was enclosed in Mai's despatch of the same date at fol. 222;" but it is evidently only a corrected draft of the paper already abstracted under No. 419.
  • n21. "Hase de mirar esto para efecto que se pratique si convendrá presentar la dicha capitulation."
  • n22. Hernan Duque de Estrada. Duque is here a proper name, not a title, as Bergenroth and other editors of Calendars, have erroneously printed, making him "duke of Estrada."
  • n23. "En que prorroga la paga de la dote, y en que dice que dexó de tomar otro matrimonio de mas dineros por conservar [la dicha dote]."
  • n24. There must be some mistake in the copies at Simancas, of which I have seen no less than three, for in November 1504 Alexander was no longer Pope, having died on the 10th of August 1503. See above, p. 703, § 11.