Spain: November 1530, 16-25

Pages 809-816

Calendar of State Papers, Spain, Volume 4 Part 1, Henry VIII, 1529-1530. Originally published by Her Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1879.

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November 1530, 16-25

17 Nov. 497. Don Pedro de la Cueva to the Emperor.
S. E. L. 849, f, 6.
B.M. Add. 28,582,
f. 44.
Arrived here Tuesday the 15th, and alighted at cardinal Osma's, who was as glad at my coming as if I had been the count of Siruela himself. On the ensuing day, after due notice being given to the Cardinal, to the ambassador (Mai), and to Andrea del Burgo, we all four went to the Papal Palace, followed by such masses of people that I should have liked Guillemin (fn. n1) to have seen me in such a situation. Found the Pope standing by a window as he used to do at Bologna ; gave him the letter about the Council, which he read through. Just about the middle of it he stopped and sighed, and at the end sighed again. Told him that I had another letter to give him from Your Majesty in answer to his, as well as a memorandum of certain points about Florence. This last he took and read at once, and it seemed to me as if he were glad of what he saw in it, for the Cardinal had warned me to give it him as a sweetener after the other. The Pope then inquired about the Duke [of Saxony]. Related to him the many favours Your Majesty had bestowed upon him, and how very pleased you were with his behaviour. Told him also that I had another letter from Your Majesty on the provision soon to be made for the election of a king of the Romans, which letter I took to him next morning, when the Pope having sent for Sancti Quatuor and Ancona, the matter was discussed in our presence, and the petition, just as it was, immediately granted.
Most of these cardinals have come to visit me. Medici, Mantua, and Cesarino sent as far as Viterbo to meet me on the road.
Though we were most of the time along with His Holiness, Sancti Quatuor and Ancona came in for the king of Hungary's business, when much was said about the heretics (erejes), &c. His Holiness said not a word about the Council, save to shrug his shoulders and shew pity for the Germans (tudescos), whose souls (he said) would be irretrievably damned. The Cardinal [of Osma] is of opinion that I ought, after two days, to speak to the Pope again, and so I intend to do.—Rome, 17th November 1530.
Signed: "Don Pedro de la Cueva."
Addressed: "To the most Invincible Emperor, our Sovereign Lord."
Spanish. Holograph, pp. 2.
17 Nov. 498The Same to the High Commander.
S. E. L. 849, f. 8.
B. M. Add. 28,582,
f. 29.
Reached Rome on Tuesday the 15th inst. later than he expected, having been detained at the camp by Don Fernando [Gonzaga], and Don Lope [de Soria]. Was met at 8, 12, and 20 miles [from Roma] by cardinals and other great people, who came riding post to offer him their houses, &c. Did not accept their offers, as the first thing to be done was to obey the Emperor's commands. Entered Rome with a suite of 17 horsemen, some of his friends at the camp having offered to escort him. Great excitement was caused by his arrival, and as Italians in general are much given to astrology, many prognostics were drawn from his coming. Alighted at the house of cardinal d'Osma, by whom he was received, and has since been entertained, in a manner that baffles all description, Was visited by Miçer Mai, whom he recognizes for his master (patron), and who complained that he (Don Pedro) had not chosen his own house for a residence; also by Muxetula and Andrea del Burgo. The Pope received him next day much better than people thought he would, for all here except Muxetula firmly believe that he will never allow a General Council to be convoked, an opinion which all those of the long robe whom he has met here also share. As he writes by this post to His Majesty what the Pope told him, and how far he (Cueva) has advanced in his negociation, he need not trouble His Lordship with further details.
It appears that between Monsignor d'Osma and our ambassador [Miçer Mai] here there is not that harmony that ought to prevail, the reason being, as far as he (Don Pedro) can judge, that one of the two (Miçer Mai) is too impetuous (ardriente), and the other (the Cardinal) too yielding "floxo."
Wishes to know how soon the Emperor purposes leaving Germany, that he may so shape his journey as to meet him there before coming down to Flanders.—Rome, 17th November 1530.
Signed: "Don Pedro de la Cueva."
Addressed: "To the most Illustrious High Commander of Leon, of the Emperor's Privy Council, and his principal secretary."
Spanish. Holograph. pp. 3.
17 Nov. 499. Muxetula to the Emperor.
S. E. L. 849, f. 77.
B. M. Add. 28,582,
f. 32.
Not only do the Venetians refuse to contribute with money towards the Turkish war, but they go on publicly stating that no help is required because the affairs of the Turk are not as represented, nor are those of the Lutherans (fn. n2) either, and that besides to attack the Turk at the present moment would be most inopportune, and might lead to an alliance between the heretics and the Infidel.
From Lucca they write coldly about such contribution, and besides Joan de Marcilla, who resides there for Your Majesty, says he has no orders on this point. The duke of Milan has not answered yet, nor has he of Ferrara. The Pope, however, says that his 10,000 crs. and the 2,000 from Florence shall be ready from December next, and that he will take care that the dukes of Camerino and Urbino supply the remainder. The duke of Mantua has not sent an answer to the application, but his ambassador here assures me that he will not be at fault. Of the duke of Savoy and marquises of Saluzzo and Monferrado there is no news yet.
Relates at length the conversation which the Pope had with the duke of Albany respecting the plans of the French king.—Rome, 17th November 1530.
Signed: "Jo. Ant. Muscetula."
Addressed: "Sacr. Ces. et Cath. Mati."
Spanish. Holograph, pp. 5.
17 Nov. 500. Miçer Mai to the Emperor.
S. E. L. 850,
f. 118.
B. M. Add. 28,582,
f. 43.
Sends the treatise (discurso) which the duke of Albany [John Stuart] gave the Pope. Instead of copying it in French as in the original, an Italian translation which he encloses (fn. n3) has been made.
The Sienese difficulty has at last been settled, as Don Pedro de la Cueva assures us.
The mission of that ambassador has hitherto been kept secret. As far as he (Mai) can judge the Pope is much pre-occupied with (esta mucho sobre si) the consideration of the proposed council, but says he is afraid of its turning out very differently from what His Majesty thinks, thereby meaning that although the Emperor's purpose be good he himself fears that the result will be unfortunate. In this respect he trusts implicitly in His Imperial Majesty; does not much mistrust France, but is terribly afraid of the king of England and of the Venetians.—Rome, 17th November 1530.
Signed: "Mai."
Spanish. Holograph, pp. 2.
18 Nov. 501. Muxetula to the Emperor.
S. E. L. 849, f. 6.
B. M. Add. 28,582,
f. 44.
The Emperor's letters of the 20th and 30th ulto have been duly received. His orders about the quartering of the troops had already been fulfilled in part when the letters came; the remainder will be attended to. Excuses Marramaldo: does not think him capable of uttering the threats which have been reported to the Emperor. He has always been faithful and done much service as captain of Italian infantry. He it was who gained the victory at Gavignana, without which the siege of Florence would have been raised, for the prince of Orange was slain on that field of battle, and the men-at-arms fled before the enemy.
Don Pedro saw the Pope yesterday and spoke to him about the Council; he has not answered yet.—Rome, 17th November 1530.
Signed: "Jo. Ant. Muxetula."
Spanish. Holograph. pp. 2.
18 Nov. 502. Clement VII. to the Emperor.
S. Pat Re. Cone, y
Disc. Eeel. L. 2,
f. 3.
B. M. Add. 28,582,
f. 50.
Has duly received his letter brought by Don Pedro de la Cueva, and heard besides what the ambassador had to say verbally. Is fully persuaded of the sincerity of his wishes for the exaltation of the Church of Christ and the glory of the Apostolic See.
Respecting the remedy which he (the Emperor) proposes to apply to the Lutheran errors in matters of Faith, if he alone were consulted he (the Pope) should not hesitate to adhere at once to his plans and follow his advice, such is his confidence in the Emperor's affection and wisdom; but this being a thing in which the whole of Christendom and the Church of God are so deeply concerned, he deems it advisable before returning a categorical answer upon that subject to consult the cardinals thereupon, &c.
Italian. Holograph. pp. 2.
19 Nov. 503. Don Pedro de la Cueva to the Same.
S. E. L. 349,
f. 127.
B. M. Add. 28,582,
f. 51.
On the 15th prothonotary Gambaro arrived. When I heard of it I went up to the Pope and told him of it. He answered that his business should be attended to, so that he might take his departure to-day, Monday. Up to this hour, however, Gambaro is not gone, and I hear the cardinals are still in Consistory. I have spoken to him, and he assures me that on the day of the Epiphany (dia de Reyes), he will be with Your Majesty. He must make a great effort for this unless he means riding post, as he did when the king of France dispatched him to this present Pope, then in prison.
Went on Saturday the 17th to speak to the Pope about the cardinals' hats, when d'Osma and I had occasion to allude to the Council, and remark how much Your Majesty would wonder at the prothonotary Gambaro not going immediately. The Pope said: "The Emperor need not be anxious about that; he knows that the Council will be convoked and assembled exactly as he wishes it, but it will be necessary first to remove certain scruples of the cardinals and others; for my part I am quite at ease (conortado) having placed myself entirely in his hands."
As Monsignor d'Osma cannot fail to give a full account of what passed on this occasion, I will say no more about it, except entreat Your Majesty that if the Council is to take place, a courier should be immediately dispatched with the news, on the arrival of the Prothonotary, that I may have the bulls for the convocation prepared, and myself take my departure.
With regard to the cardinals' hats for the Spanish bishops we spoke to the Pope, who made various difficulties. Wish to to know whether Your Majesty wants me to insist equally on the appointment of all four, or merely of those for whom less resistance is offered. Spoke first about the archbishop of Toledo, because of the other three the Pope would not hear at first, and he then told me that an ecclesiastic of that archbishopric had spoken to him on the subject, and delivered certain letters of favour from the Empress, and I must say seemed inclined to yield; perhaps the said letters may have contained some good offer (profecta) of the kind most esteemed here. I must not forget to mention that when the Pope first spoke to us on this subject he very deliberately said: "Of course I need not tell you that the College will not sanction the election of that cardinal."
Last week His Holiness caused us all a great alarm by proposing in Consistory two cardinals for whom the king of England asks hats. The proposition was made so warmly (caldamente) that we all thought it would be granted. We spoke to His Holiness on the subject, and he answered that he had done it out of compliment to the king of England, but that we might be sure it would never take effect. Nevertheless, cardinal d'Osma was of opinion that some of his colleagues should be spoken to. Another consistory was held and no mention of the English made in it, the Pope having told the English ambassadors that he feared very much the King's candidates would not obtain a sufficient number of votes. Such is the state of the affair at the present hour, though I am told that that scoundrel (bellaco) Ghinucci had already made great preparations for the banquet he intended giving on the occasion. What may be the upshot of it I cannot guess, for I have little faith in Roman truth.
The ambassador (Mai) had spoken to the Pope in favour of a Spaniard for the vacant seat in the Rota, but the Pope said that the person recommended did not meet the requirements of that office. His Holiness had no objection to appoint another canonist of our nation, provided he was competent, &c. The president of the Council [of Castille] ought to be written to and send us from Spain some ecclesiastic fit for this post, as it is always very desirable to have one more vote in that tribunal.
As soon as the death of the archbishop was known here, the Pope, I am told, said to his nephew, cardinal Medici: "Now the Emperor might give you something good." The nephew's answer was: "I have not served the Emperor long enough for that, I have no doubt that when I have I shall not be forgotten. Your Holiness, who made a cardinal of me, should now provide for my maintenance (me devria dar de comer)" Uncle and nephew have frequent skirmishes together, for he (the Cardinal) would have much preferred to have Florence, and for his brother (Alessandro) to have been made cardinal.
Yesterday the news came that Buda had been taken, and the Vayvod and Gritti made prisoners. I hope it will turn out true.
Signed: "Don Pedro de la Cueva."
Spanish. Holograph. pp. 4.
504. Cardinal Santa Croce's instructions to his agent (fn. n4) at the Imperial court.
S. E. L. 851,
f. 24.
B. M. Add. 28,582,
f. 187.
After kissing the Emperor's hands in my name, you will inform him that His Holiness, the Pope, has lately commissioned me, along with other members of the Sacred College of Cardinals, to report on all affairs proceeding from the Imperial court. That a letter from the Papal Legate (Campeggio?) was lately read in Consistory relating to a conversation he (the Legate) had had at Court, and how he had heard the Emperor himself say that a General Council was very much needed, not only pro rebus fidei, but likewise pro aliis; and you may add that, as far as I can judge, my colleagues were more displeased at the letter than at the former motive. (fn. n5)
The truth of the matter is that all Lutheran endeavours here as well as there to prevent the celebration of the Council must be considered as the work of men who look more to expediency than honesty, and that any structure raised upon such frail foundations, however they may colour and gild it over on the outside, cannot endure. (fn. n6)
You may further tell His Majesty that the two points with which the Lutherans seem to be satisfied, might, in my opinion, be granted not "concessivè" but "permissivè," should they ask for them. By granting them until the celebration of the Council two principal advantages might be gained: in the first place, the difficulties and dangers whereof people here are afraid could be avoided; and secondly, a sort of obligation would be contracted towards the celebration of the Council sooner or later, which would become, as at other times, a sort of medicine to all parties.
20 Nov. 505. King Francis i. to Clement VII
S. E. L. 850,
f. 140.
B. M. Add. 28,582,
f. 58.
The duke of Albany must already have informed him what his views are concerning the General Council. Approves entirely of its convocation. The place of meeting must be one free from suspicion, and as convenient and accessible as possible, so that people from all nations may attend it. This, in his opinion, is the only way of meeting the ever-increasing heresy of the Lutherans and others, as his ambassador, the duke of Albany, will fully explain.—Bloys, 20th November 1530.
French. Contempory copy. pp. 2.
22 Nov. 506. The Abbot of Llor to the High Commander.
S. E. L. 850,
f. 145.
B. M. Add. 28,582,
f. 61.
Has spoken on the affair of England with the Cardinal named in the enclosed paper, who has shewn him a letter from the King of that country promising a bishopric of 6,000 ducats if he would work in his favour. The Cardinal shewed him also three opinions in writing (tres conseios en escrito), all of which conclude, or at least purpose doing so, in favour of the king of England. Had a conversation with the Cardinal, who, confiding in him, had no difficulty in stating how the case was. In short, what the Cardinal considers as a doubtful point is not so in the least. [Gives at length his own opinion of the case, quotes passages from the Scriptures and then adds:]
After hearing all he had to say on this subject, the Cardinal seemed convinced to a certain extent, and said in confidence (intimamente): "I thank you for your clear exposition of the case; yet all I can do is not to vote against the Emperor. Should I continue to hold my present opinion I promise not to vote in favour of the King and against the Emperor."
Thinks that if His Majesty wrote him a letter the Cardinal would change his opinion. He is young, not more than 34 years of age, has a good reputation for learning and virtue, lives a very moral and exemplary life, &c.
Three are the doubts respecting the English case which in his (the Abbot's) opinion are raised in the three papers which the Cardinal gave him to read: 1st. Quod est contra preceptum morale; 2nd. Quod rex tempore quo contraxit cum regina erat minor; 3rd. Quod tempore quo contraxit protestatus est de obicibus sibi licitis protestari. The two first are easily removed, "per supervenientem maturam ætatem continuatam perseverantia veri consensus."—Rome, 22nd November 1530.
Signed: "Llavatt (sic) Llor."
Spanish. Holograph. pp. 3.
23 Nov. 507. King Francis [to the Duke of Albany].
S. E. L. 850,
f. 139.
B. M. Add. 28,582,
f. 64.
The Imperial ambassador residing at this our court has fully explained to us the many remonstrances, prayers and persuasions which the Emperor, his master, has from time to time addressed to the German princes who follow the sect of Luther. All these means having proved ineffectual he now recommends the convocation of a General Council, wherein these disputes, which threaten the peace of Christendom, may be satisfactorily settled. We have written to the Pope and to the College of Cardinals the letters herein enclosed which you will present to them.—Bloys, 23rd November 1530.
French. Contemporary copy pp. 2.


  • n1. A diminutive from Guillelmo, or Guillermo, that is Guillaume or William; probably a young relative of the count of Siruela, whose family name was Velasco.
  • n2. "Que para los Lutheranos tampoco es menester, y que ellos no pueden contribuir por no juntar al Turco con los infieles."
  • n3. See above, No. 490, p. 794.
  • n4. Who the agent was is not stated. Indeed the paper has no date nor signature. In Bergenroth's volume, the 11th of the collection, it occupies the folios 187 and 188 at the end of 1530, where all letters and documents without a date, have, in most cases, been placed by those who had the care of arranging his papers. I need scarcely add that some of them have been misplaced in the volumes, as will be seen in vol. ii. of the Catalogue of Spanish Manuscripts in the Library of the British Museum, pp. 576-603.
  • n5. "Y piadosamente creo que no faltó quien sentiese mas el pro aliis que el pro fide."
  • n6. "En las cosas de Luthero la verdad es que todas las que se encaminaren acá y allá á escusar concilio, las tengo por cosas ordenadas de hombres, que tienen mas respecto á lo util que á lo honesto, y sobre este fundamento no durará el edificio, que va sobre falso por mas que lo coloren y doren."