Spain: November 1530, 1-15

Pages 791-809

Calendar of State Papers, Spain, Volume 4 Part 1, Henry VIII, 1529-1530. Originally published by Her Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1879.

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November 1530, 1-15

1 Nov. 482. The Emperor to Miçer Mai.
S.E.L. 1,557,
f. 134.
B. M. Add. 28,582,
f. 1.
We have communicated with the Papal Legate here concerning the bulls We want His Holiness to issue [for the election of the king of the Romans]. The Legate thinks there will be some difficulty in obtaining the dispensation. At all events you must try to get the one excluding the elector of Saxony from the election; but you must also ask for the other, that We may be at liberty to act according to circumstances.
No time must be lost, and, if obtained, the bulls must be dispatched to us by special courier.—Augsburg, 1st November, 1530.
Spanish. Original draft in the hand of Alfonso de Valdés.
3 Nov. 483. Miçer Mai to the Emperor.
B. M. Add. 28,582,
f. 2.
Has importuned the Pope a thousand times for a brief on the two remaining points of our memorial, touching the separation of the king of England from his paramour, (fn. n1) and also for a further inhibition against the King should he proceed to marry "de facto." The Pope had hitherto excused himself on the plea of Ancona's illness, but to-day in his (Mai's) very presence he sent for that cardinal, and gave also orders for the English ambassadors to appear at the Palace. Owing, however, to the arrival and entry of the duke of Albany into Rome this morning the interview could not take place. The orders shall be repeated as soon as possible.
As to the minute of the brief ordering the universities to assemble formally and give their opinions, and the reasons of the conclusion at which they may arrive, it has already been drawn. This is being done for Padua and Bologna, and even for Paris, which will meet, as Your Majesty may have understood, after the expiration of the period during which His Holiness wished the proceedings to be suspended. That term once over, he (Mai) intends to prosecute the case, although, as he has informed the Emperor, he has not yet received from Spain or England the papers required.—Rome, 3rd November 1530.
Signed: "Mai."
Indorsed: "Parrafo de carta original de Miçer May."
Spanish. Holograph, p. 1.
4 Nov. 484. Gio. Ant. Muxetula to the Emperor.
S. E. L. 849,
f. 74.
B. M. Add. 28.582,
f. 3.
Reports his negociations with the Pope respecting the money to be contributed by the Italian princes. Fears that the Signory of Venice will not furnish any, on the plea that they are afraid of the Turk. The Pope, however, promises to get his own contribution ready, viz., 10,000 crs. for himself, and 2,000 more for Florence, as he says that will encourage the others to come down with their cash.
Cardinal Colonna has only remitted 22,000 ducats of the 80,000 which he was bound to send us. When reproached about it, he answers that he cannot do more, and that those who drew out the capitulation of Florence (and he, Muxetula, was one of them), are responsible for not having exacted a larger sum from the Florentines. The fact is that Pompeo's hatred of the Pope is so intense that nothing will satisfy him, short of the total destruction and sack of Florence.
Marramaldo with his Italians is still in the territory of Florence, but will soon be paid and his men disbanded. As to Malatesta, the Pope shewed me two of his letters to the king of France, which were intercepted some days ago. Every effort should be made to detach him from the French alliance.
The duke of Albany arrived yesterday. He has not yet seen the Pope; when he does shall not fail to inform the Emperor of it.—Rome, 7th November 1530.
Signed: "Jo. Ant. Muscetula." pp. 3.
5 Nov. 485. The Same to the Same.
S. E. L. 849,
ff. 75-6.
B. M. Add. 28,582,
f. 8.
Yesterday the duke of Albany kissed His Holiness' foot; he was not so pompous in his bearing as was reported, and had only but a small retinue of servants and pages.
At his first audience, which took place last night, very little was said, except that he came to treat about the marriage of the Pope's grand niece (nieta) and the duke of Orleans, and for other matters, of which he would speak at his next visit. The Pope, however, told me smiling that the Duke in course of conversation had said: "Holy Father, many and great are the troubles and anxieties through which Your Holiness must have passed ever since I quitted Rome [in 1525]. The King, my master, has had also much to suffer. Thank God the experience of the past cannot be lost upon such wise princes as you both are." The Pope thinks that this is only a preliminary for certain overtures about Milan.
To-day, having met the Duke returning from the Pope, I went immediately to the Quirinale, and asked him about the Duke. He had been with him for a long while, and had spoken principally on two points, namely: first that the King wished very much to marry his second son, the duke of Orleans, to Madame Catarina, and offered to settle for their maintenance an annual sum of 50,000 crs., and secondly about his contribution to the Turkish war. With regard to this latter, the King was ready to help with men and some money also, on condition that the money be spent solely for the benefit of Christendom and in war with the Infidel, not for any other purpose, for although his master had great confidence in the virtues and past behaviour of the king of Hungary, he wished to avoid any chance of the money being misappropriated.
The Duke then proceeded to say that he had been expressly sent to Rome to cement and increase the friendship already existing between him, His Holiness, and the Emperor. That friendship and close alliance once firmly established, nobody could doubt for a moment but that they might together bring the troublesome English affair to a satisfactory conclusion, for the King, his master, would no longer comply with the requests of his brother of England, and might then find plenty of means to moderate his ardour and deter him from his unreasonable purpose, &c.
In all this there was no direct allusion to Milan, but at last he added: "And since the King, my master, is well disposed to help Your Holiness and the Emperor in these mighty affairs of the Turk and of the Lutherans, which concern you most; what do you propose doing for him?"—"I do not understand what you mean," replied the Pope. "I have no doubt that the Emperor, and I can answer for myself, will do anything to please the king of France, provided it be not for the purpose of disturbing the union now existing between the Christian princes."
The Pope has no doubt that the Duke will explain his wants more clearly next time.—Rome, 5th November 1530.
Signed: "Jo. Ant. Muscetula."
Spanish. Holograph, pp. 4.
5 Nov. 486. The Papal Nuncio in France (fn. n2) to Clement VII.
S. E L. 851,
f. 1.
B. M. Add. 28,582,
f. 13.
The king of France is not disposed to pay a subsidy towards the Hungarian war.
I think that any delay (intertenimenti) in the matrimonial cause is quite allowable, provided no injustice be done, and the Emperor be not offended, of which His Holiness will take good care. I say this deliberately, for I do not doubt that if this demand [of the English king] is granted, it is for some purpose which God will direct for the best. I hear that the King is making every possible effort to have his cause decided in England in his favour, and as he sees that those who are to take part in this Diet do not suit his purpose, and perhaps also suspecting that sentence will be given earlier in Rome than in England, he makes this demand for delay. I hear from a person lately come from that country that the man (questo homo) is at present more obstinate than ever, and that all that is being done here is insufficient to change his mind. I think, however, that a letter ought to be written to His Holiness, asking him to delay the affair in Rome.—Blais (Blois), 5th November 1530.
Indorsed; "Summary of news from France sent by Muxetula."
Italian. Contemporary copy. pp. 1½.
8 Nov 487. News from France sent by the Papal Nuncio.
S. E. L. 851,
f. 134.
B. M. Add. 28,582,
f. 13.
The king of France says he cannot contribute money to the succour of Hungary, for all that he has he needs to pay the Emperor, to whom he owes still 500,000 ducats. For the payment of this sum the King has pledged several of his territorial dominions, and he owes the king of England 300,000 ducats besides.
Letters lately received from Rome seem to have produced an unfavourable opinion on this king, for he openly accuses the Pope of too great partiality for the Emperor.
The king of England presses for the amount of the debt due to him by this king and 80,000 ducats more.
Indorsed: "Summary of news from France sent by Muscetula."
Italian. Copy in, the hand of Muxetula.
11 Nov. 488. The Emperor to Muscetula.
S. E. L. 1,557,
f. 135.
B. M. Add. 28,582,
f. 15.
Is greatly satisfied with the manner in which he has conducted negociations. Approves entirely of the reasons given by the Pope, and thanks him for the pains he has taken in persuading the Italian princes to contribute towards the support and dispatch of his army to Hungary. Is ready on his part to furnish his quota from Naples.—Augsburg, 11th November 1530.
Spanish. Original draft in the hand of Alfonso de Valdés.
489. The Same to cardinal Colonna.
S. E. L. 1,557,
f. 133.
B. M. Add. 28,582,
f. 16.
Hears from his commissaries in Tuscany that he (Colonna) has not yet provided the infantry with the 22,000 ducats, and that in consequence they are committing ravages in Siena. Wishes to know how much Naples, which is now entirely free from soldiers can contribute towards sending our army to Hungary and keeping it there.
It is necessary to know this as (cipher) the Pope is now negociating with the Italian princes for this purpose.—Augusta (Augsburg), 11th November 1530.
Spanish. Original draft in the handwriting of Alfonso de Valdés.
490. The advice given by the duke of Albany to the Pope respecting the war against the Turk.
S. E. L. 867,
f. 193.
B. M. Add. 28,577,
f. 319
To resist successfully the attacks of the Infidel the following means are proposed: —
1st. To send to the Emperor and king of France a person of rank, who may inquire from them both whether the means mentioned hereafter meet with their approval or not.
2nd. To raise at once two powerful armies, not only for the defence of the territories invaded by the Turk, but also for the attack and invasion of his own.
3rd. As the various kingdoms possessed by the Emperor and by his brother the king of Hungary are more threatened than those of any other prince in Christendom, it would be advisable to raise a large army in Germany, which, joined to the forces of Spain, Naples, Sicily, Portugal, Bohemia, Hungary, and Denmark, may successfully check the progress of the Turkish arms.
4th. A fleet must also be fitted out from all the Italian ports, including those of the Emperor, besides all those belonging to the kings of France and England. The Emperor to contribute galleys and ships (navilli), the best he has, to the amount of 40; the Pope to furnish his own as well as those of the Order [of Rhodes], Genoa and Monaco. As the duke of Savoy [Charles III.] has no ports in his dominions, he cannot well be called upon to furnish his contingent in ships, but can easily defray the cost of ten "carrache o carraconi" hired from Genoa. The king of France to contribute likewise 40 galleys and ships.
5th. A circular letter (getto) to be immediately drawn in the presence of the Pope, and copies to be forwarded to the ambassadors of the foreign powers, and principally to the Emperor, to the kings of England and France, and the rest of the princes, in order to ascertain how much each is willing to contribute towards the said armament, that the agreement, if made, may be immediately ratified and carried into execution.
6th. As some of the princes and potentates favouring the Lutheran sect might think that these armaments are directed against them, it might be stipulated that an armistice of two or three years should be concluded all over Christendom, during which, or rather during the time of the said Turkish war, all should live in peace and in the practice of their own religion (si stesse en la sua legge) without molestation of any sort. Should any one of them be attacked by his neighbour, then, in that case, all the princes who had signed the agreement should fall upon the aggressor, and oblige him to keep the peace. The Pope, the Emperor, and the king of France to constitute of themselves a tribunal for the preservation of the said peace, for the settlement of any differences likely to arise among the princes and potentates.
7th. The better (fn. n3) to provide for the affairs of Christianity during the above-named period, and the better to answer the claims of the Lutherans and convince them of their errors, and also to decide which will be the best time and place for the convocation, it will be necessary, if no better plan can be suggested for the conclusion of such an agreement as the one proposed, and the restoration of Christianity to its former state, for the Pope, the Emperor, and the most Christian King of France to meet and have the whole matter discussed and settled between them as soon as possible, and in the most secret manner, without, however, neglecting to settle the amount of troops and money which each prince is to provide. They might also treat at the same time of the said abstinence from war, and discuss the expediency of convoking a council to please the Lutherans and others. At this meeting the said princes might discuss and settle between themselves many other things for the good of Christendom at large, and if any prince offered opposition, compel him by force of arms to follow the will of the majority. Every conquest [made over the Turk] might be divided among the contracting parties, and other measures proposed equally advantageous for the Holy Apostolic See, the Emperor, and the king of France.
By this means His Holiness' wishes might be realized not only respecting the marriage (fn. n4) of the duke Alessandro to the Emperor's natural daughter (Margaret), but also with regard to his relationship to the most Christian King. This would not interfere with the conditions of the said truce, because the term of two years, at which the marriage has been fixed, will be very convenient for the said princes by means of letters, messengers, and other expedients to accomplish their wishes. It will be resolved at the time what sum of money each prince is to contribute monthly, and for how long. His Holiness might also promise the Emperor and King to grant them each a crusade to defray the expenses of the armaments by sea and land. The sum thus raised to be placed in the hands of good and honest commissioners deputed for the purpose by the said princes.
No potentate, however, during the term of this truce can fail to keep it, especially as they will be ignorant of the agreement made between the contracting parties, which is to be kept as secret as possible. They will consider themselves secure in the hope of being soon called to a General Council.
Indorsed: "The plan (lo horden), which the duke of Albany proposed to the Pope for the enterprize against the Turk."
Italian. Contemporary copy. pp. 6.
7 Nov. 491. The Emperor to Margaret of Austria.
B. Arch. d. Roy.
d. Belg.
Ref. rel. Supl.,
f. 40.
Respecting the redemption and payment of pensions to his cousin, the Elector Palatine, and to the cardinal of Mayence (Maintz), it has been agreed that the Cardinal is to be paid 10,000 gold florins due to him on his last year's pension. To receive the said sum the Cardinal has named and appointed Sebastian Neidthardt, a citizen of this place, and heir of Christofle Herwrardt. Prays that she will give the necessary orders to have the said sum paid to the Cardinal.—Dauspourg (Augsburg), 7th November 1530.
French. Original minute.
13 Nov. 492. Eustace Chapuys to the Emperor.
K. u. K. Haus-
c. 226, No. 45.
Last Thursday Your Majesty's letter of the 22nd ulto, brought by my own secretary, was duly received. I should immediately have gone to the King—who had just arrived in London—had I not heard from the Papal Nuncio (Borgo) that he himself was about to have an audience. I, therefore, delayed going to Court, that I might first communicate with the Nuncio, and learn from him what had been the result of his conference, and how the matters entrusted to his care had been received by the King. (fn. n5)
On the ensuing Friday the Nuncio came to see me, and confirmed his previous statement. He had gone to Court and presented the [Pope's] answer to the petition, (fn. n6) which this king had caused to be signed by some noblemen (aucungs grans) of this kingdom, which answer, as the report goes, was anything but agreeable to the King, who used very threatening language on the occasion, as I have already informed Your Majesty, telling the Nuncio, among other things, that God had lately testified his displeasure at the Pope's conduct by the sudden overflowing of the Tiber, and subsequent inundation of Rome, through which the city and the Pope himself had well nigh perished. Many other similar things did the King say of the Pope, at which the Nuncio was so shocked that he assured me he would on no account go to Court again without an express mandate from the Pope, and that should he have any communication to make in virtue of his charge, he should limit himself to making extracts from the Pope's letters and forwarding them to Court. It was mere folly, he said, to try and negotiate personally with the King; at no interview had he been able to obtain from him any definite and reasonable proposal. The Nuncio further said that the King had greatly complained of his having acquainted the French ambassador (Jehan Jocquin) with what had passed between them touching the choice of judges as co-arbitrators (juges co-arbitres), and also that he strongly suspected that he (the Nuncio) had communicated with me, at which he seemed to be somewhat angry.
I have told the Nuncio that I had been informed—not indeed by Your Majesty's letters, but by private correspondence—of what has been decided concerning the Council, and that perhaps, when speaking to the King on German affairs in general, he might suggest, as he had done many a time before, the convocation of a general one. I further told him that as there could be no doubt that the Pope, in view of the good that was to result therefrom, and the great necessity there was of it, would willingly agree to the measure, I might, if he approved of it, urge the affair with the King when I next saw him. If he (the Nuncio) did not consider this step advisable under present circumstances, I was ready not to mention the subject until compelled to do so. For it might well be that these people (ceulx çy), in order to sew discord (semer sizanie) between the Pope and Your Majesty, would not speak of the Council but at their own pleasure (a leur playsir.)
The Nuncio replied that he did not deem it advisable, unless he received from Rome a special mandate to that effect, to take that step openly; but if I (Chapuys) could in my future conferences with the King introduce the subject, and speak of it incidentally, he would be well pleased to be excused doing so himself, and would attach as much faith to my report as if the King himself had told him his mind thereupon
Yesterday morning, Saturday, I went to Court, and met there the lords Norfolk and Wiltshire, (fn. n7) who repeated to me the same news with which they had greeted me on All Saint's Day, namely, that the Vayvod had overrun Hungary, taken some towns and done much mischief. Told them that if it had been the Cardinal who had given me such news I should have thought it was done for his own gratification, both on account of the ill-will he bore Your Majesty and also because he wished it to be understood that the money he had sent to the said Vayvod had borne fruit. Further, that people could no longer nowadays be lulled with the idea that it was the Vayvod who was making these inroads on his own account; they must now be awake to the fact that it is the Turk who is plotting not only against Hungary but against the rest of Christendom, and that they must therefore rouse themselves to efficient resistance. Spoke afterwards of the reformation of the Church, which has led to this proposal of a council, a matter which is certainly being discussed now in the King's Council, for the earl of Wiltshire made some remarks thereupon which were afterwards repeated to me by the King, among others, that the convocation of councils, excepting on matters of Faith, was the province of secular princes, not of the Pope, and that in neither case ought the Pope to be the head of them. After much had been said on this topic, and many questions asked and answered, I replied that I knew on sufficient authority, from the opinion of doctors, that for the due convocation of a General Council it sufficed that Your Majesty should propose and the Pope sanction it, at which they were much surprised and silenced for the time.
I then went to the King, who, among many other familiar topics (familliers propos), inquired after my servant who had died of the plague, and told me that he heard from Spain that the plague was raging there so terribly that the Empress could hardly find a safe place of residence: also that from other letters he had seen, he learnt that 30,000 men had been assembled to march upon Bayonne. Was much amazed to hear such monstrous pieces of intelligence, and told the King that some one must have invented them for his gratification.
Then followed a discussion on German affairs, the King telling me that Your Majesty, in his opinion, had not paid them that attention which the immeasurable importance of the case required. That considering that the points to be decided were now reduced to four, viz., communion in two kinds; marriage of the Clergy; the removal of the communion reed during mass, and the depriving ecclesiastics of their temporalities, Your Majesty might well have granted the Lutherans (fn. n8) such just requests as these; the last-named article being one that would especially commend itself to many besides the Lutherans, as it did indeed to himself; but Your Majesty, he said, had in this point shewn more regard for private interest than for the public weal and the repose of Christendom.
Seeing how very ill-informed the King was of what had lately passed [in Germany] I shewed him the report of the acts of the Diet, telling him of the great pains Your Majesty had taken for the redress of the said evils, and also how very inexpedient it would have been for yourself to sanction the said articles, which could not have been done without previous deliberation in a General Council. Indeed should such a council be convoked, the King would see that no personal motive would influence you. He (the king) was wrong in supposing that on account of the Queen's cause and for fear of its issue—in which Your Majesty sued simply for justice—you had been induced to delay attending to this important work for which you had purposely left Spain and encountered so much trouble and expense. The King did not reply to my observation respecting the fears he said you entertained of the issue of the cause, but somewhat excused himself for what he had at first said by throwing all the blame on the ecclesiastics who, he said, surround you, and who, not caring for any but their own personal interest, had advised Your Majesty in a way that might lead to more mischief than had ever been done before. He then began to argue with me and say that it would really be doing God's service to take away the temporalities from the Clergy, which opinion I did not oppose in the least, but said that supposing his statements to be substantially true, in any case the question was one to be determined by a General Council, the only authority to which the Pope, to whose prejudice the measure would work, was amenable. (fn. n9) The King replied that there was no need of any fresh council to reform the German Church, and deprive the Clergy of their temporalities; this concerned Your Majesty alone; other princes had no power in Germany, and it would have answered all the purposes of a council if you yourself had initiated these reforms there; other princes would then have followed your example in their own territory. For his own part he said he could redress the evils in his own country without the intervention of any council whatever, for that his kingdom lay in a corner of the world separated by its natural position from contact with other countries, in whose affairs he did not much care to meddle.
The conversation on these matters lasted a long while; did not try to draw the King away from them, as they were closely connected with that of the Council, which I wished to explode. At last having clearly gathered from the King's words what his intentions and views were, I resolutely asked him what reason he thought there was for Your Majesty thus to yield to the obstinate persistence of four Lutheran princes, at the same time offending and scandalizing so many other princes, and the whole of the Christian community. The King could only answer that there were more than four princes for that, besides those I had alluded to as being present at the Augsburg diet, the duke of Cleves and several others had offered the same opposition, and that among those on the other side he knew many who would not regret seeing the wings of the Clergy clipped. This allusion was evidently directed against the Pope, although when I mentioned his name the King suddenly interrupted me by saying: "I am not speaking of the Pope" and I saw plainly that his object was to aroúse jealousy and suspicion on my part. (fn. n10)
I have mentioned this to the Nuncio, who takes the same view that I take, and says that the thing has occurred to him more than once in his interviews with the King, whenever there was a question of specially naming Your Majesty.
I subsequently asked the King whether he could, in order to assist Your Majesty in the redress of German affairs, suggest any measure other than the first-mentioned one, which I could neither advise nor communicate. Any such suggestion from him, I said, would be welcomed by Your Majesty, bound as you were to the King both by blood and friendship, and respecting as you did, the King's great learning (on which last subject I dwelt amply), and that especially on these matters relating to Faith, on which he had written books, Your Majesty would be glad of his guidance and advice. The King took this very well, modestly excusing his ignorance and incompetence, yet saying that Your Majesty had formerly been none the worse for his advice, but that since your affairs had been more prosperous you had ceased to have any regard for him. That there were other princes who applied to him for advice and derived benefit from it. I then reminded him that from the first time that I had spoken to him on Your Majesty's part I had explained how you were about to visit Italy and Germany, in the hope of being able, with his aid and counsel, to redress all the evils existing in those countries; that when his (the King's) ambassadors went to Bologna on the latter as well as former occasions, I had distinctly begged and requested him to give them instructions for such redress as well as powers for treating upon it; that I had also on that occasion and continually afterwards communicated what news I had from Germany, and sought his advice. The King seemed caught in his own net, and soon after said, "Had the Emperor entrusted the arbitration of those German affairs to the king of France and to myself, I take it that all would have been set to rights by this time." I said in reply that Your Majesty in proposing to the Lutherans the convocation of a General Council had virtually made the most Christian King and himself arbiters, as they would naturally be among the chief personages in the Council; that he (the King) would see by the report I had put into his hands that the rashness and obstinacy of the Lutherans had reached such a degree that their proposals were inadmissible; that indeed this Council was needed not only for the suppression of heresy (which attacks other princes even more directly than Your Majesty, whose authority and rank are founded upon the Gospel), but also for obtaining united action against the Turk, whom it would take the combined effort of all Christendom to resist effectually; and that however thoroughly he (the King) might hope to suppress Lutheranism in his own dominions, he would find it no easy matter to control his people, naturally prone to revolution, when they saw every other country infected by heresy, even Lower Germany, which is so near to them, and Denmark also. The King acknowledged that England had already been somewhat contaminated by the neighbourhood of Lower Germany, for that the Osterlings (Austrelins) residing here had received many Lutheran books, and that the Dansich (Dantzig) in the said country was Lutheran, notwithstanding all the efforts the king of Poland (Sigismond) had made to prevent it. As to resisting the Turk, the King said that everyone must try to defend his own, and God would be the protector of all. Replied that it was not right to tempt God; everyone should do their part in the work, and then look for God's help; upon which the King acknowledged that it would be quite impossible for one or even two Christian princes alone to resist the Turkish power, and that besides the general iniquity was so evident, and our sins were so great, that there was little hope that God would materially help till some amendment took place. Notwithstanding the above and other considerations, the King maintained his coldness and want of cordiality, clearly intimating (common writing) that the whole was caused by this cursed divorce; I was, therefore, moved to repeat to the King the very same arguments I had once made use of to the duke of Norfolk both at Windsor and here, as Your Majesty has been already informed.
I have endeavoured to ascertain, in many private ways, what the King's real feeling is about this Council and have at last come to the conclusion that he will oppose it with all his power, for two principal reasons; one, and the first, because Your Majesty desires it, and he thinks it will he more beneficial to you than to anyone else; and the second, because he fears that the Council once assembled, one of the first things brought under discussion will be his own divorce suit, for in order that this united assembly should bear good fruit it would first be necessary to remove every cause of discord and rancour. Indeed this business once decided upon in the Council the King would have to submit and take patience, for there would be no further appeal possible. No Council being held, his hope is that there will be a thousand delays and appeals, and that meanwhile either the Pope or the Queen may die. I think, moreover, that he (the King) is fully convinced that he would be at once condemned by the Council, for besides the fact that the Queen has truth and justice on her side, there would be besides the support of the Emperor and of the king of Hungary, and also of all the Lutherans, who would certainly oppose him. There is, therefore, no chance of inducing him to consent unless it be through the king of France, with whom on this and other matters he seems to have a good understanding, in proof of which he told me the other day that Monsgr. de Noircames (fn. n11) had been in France, and that he (the King) was much surprised to hear that in the credentials of that ambassador no mention whatever was made of his having to negociate about this Council, as he perceived must have been the case (fn. n12) from the tenor of his proposals. My reply was that I believed no instructions had been given on this particular; but that I had been told the king of France, as a very Christian and very wise prince, had spoken strongly of the necessity of this Council to Monsgr. de Noircames, and that the Queen Regent (Louisa) had done the same. The King, however, affected not to believe this statement of mine, either because he wished to persuade me that he had been deceived on this point, or else to wake it appear as if nothing was done in France without his cognizance. (fn. n13) While on this topic the King also said that there could be no hope of carrying out any ecclesiastical reforms in a General Council, as so many of the Clergy would be present, who would never consent to giving up their temporalities, and that the [present] Pope claims to have authority over the Council (fn. n14) in virtue of a decretal of Pius, his predecessor, excommunicating all those who should appeal to the Council; which decretal I have no doubt the King has studied and examined carefully for his own guidance in case he should be condemned by the Pope. (fn. n15)
Whilst speaking on the above matters the King at every possible opportunity introduced the subject of his divorce, on which he spoke with much eagerness (avec grosse affection), and this not without good cause, for at a small window in the King's chamber, commanding the gallery where the King and I were speaking, was the Lady overlooking and overhearing all that passed. Begged the King from the very first not to enter upon so delicate a subject, for I had resolved not to say anything more upon it without express command from Your Majesty. And this I said because I was convinced the King would not listen to reason; but the more I tried to avoid the subject the more did the King insist on bringing it forward. He began as usual oy complaining that Your Majesty thwarted him in every possible way, expecting from him what was dishonest and unreasonable; upon which I reminded the King how many things you might have done in this cause which you had refrained from doing; and that as to the dishonest demands to which he referred there was no one in the world to whom this could apply so little as to Your Majesty, who had always acted as an honourable and virtuous prince.
The King perceiving the warmth with which I uttered these last words, and that I was ever ready with my arguments, fearing, moreover, lest the Lady might overhear something that would offend her, moved away from the window and taking me to the middle of the room, said that if he had spoken so unceremoniously about Your Majesty it was for the purpose of inducing you to reprimand your ambassadors in Rome and in France, who were inventing a thousand falsehoods about him, and ended by saying that in spite of them all he would carry his purpose through. The King added that I myself had frequently sent advices from this country to Rome which had greatly contributed to embitter his case, for the Pope himself had mentioned the fact to his ambassadors. To this new attack I answered for myself, a task easy enough to accomplish, considering that I had right on my side and that my accusers were far off. The King, however, spoke with regret of the late dealings in France. (fn. n16)
After this the King observed in general terms that all the princes with whom he had anything to do had broken faith with him. Replied that if among these he included Your Majesty, he was decidedly in the wrong, for I had hitherto refrained from forwarding unpleasant news, as he might perceive from Your Majesty's manner of writing, but that henceforth, whenever he (the King) made observations of this nature to me, I should make a point of replying without reserve, and of at once advising you thereof. Upon which the King somewhat modified his first statement by saying he did not mean to say that Your Majesty had broken faith with him as to words and promises, but only as to friendship.
Seeing that in spite of all my endeavours at conciliation the King remained still obdurate, and also that he seemed still to adhere to his former proposition, and to maintain that Your Majesty, unable to bring your affairs to a good issue unsupported, was ready to fall back upon those whom you had lightly treated in the days of your prosperity, I determined not to let him have this glorification; and therefore said (fn. n17) that I could not think what led him (the King) to make such an assertion, for that in all that had just passed I had not said one single thing or made any request that concerned Your Majesty more than himself; all I had said was on my own responsibility without any especial charge from Your Majesty.
The King kept me from nine o'clock in the morning till the afternoon, and but that he had not yet heard mass, I really think he would have kept me still longer. During this time he told me many things which I omit for brevity's sake and not to annoy Your Majesty with too much prolixity.
Yesterday evening, after my return from Court, the duke of Norfolk sent word to the Nuncio begging him to call at his house this very morning as secretly as possible, which he has accordingly done. All the Duke said to him was not to take any notice (se ranger) of the King's violent words but to try and induce the Pope to grant the King's wishes, for that he (the Duke) would take good care that none of the King's threats should be carried into execution. The Nuncio then asked the Duke for what purpose I had been to Court, but the Duke only said that nothing fresh had occurred concerning this new marriage, and that I had made no allusion whatever to it.
Eight days ago the Cardinal (Wolsey), by the King's command, was removed from the keeping of Northumberland, and placed again in the charge of Tallebot (Talbot), his ancient enemy; (fn. n18) the Cardinal's physician, moreover, has been sent to the Tower as a traitor (en forme de malfaytteur). At the same time two Genoese, great friends of Jehan Jocquin, were arrested and their papers seized. They were at once set at liberty on Jocquin offering to be security for them; but their papers are still retained to see if there be among them letters from the Cardinal or from his people. Monsgr. de Norfolk says that he cannot yet tell me the cause of the Cardinal's arrest, only that he was beginning to do worse than ever, and that Your Majesty ought to be very glad that he has been imprisoned. Shortly before his arrest the Cardinal had changed his place of residence, taking no less than 600 horsemen in his train, which has by no means improved his case. At that time he used to keep me well informed of all his movements, begging me to find out whether the Nuncio had not instructions [from Rome] concerning him, and assuring me that he was again on the road to his former position (fn. n19) The Nuncio, upon inquiry, says that his instructions were to be guided in this affair by the advice of Jehan Jocquin, but that as Jocquin was not on good terms with the other (the Cardinal) he had not been able to speak [to him] about this business. (fn. n20) I have found the Nuncio hitherto very energetic in his work. It would be a still further encouragement to him if Your Majesty would write him a letter in acknowledgment of his services.
The Queen has heard lately of the fresh suspension of the proceedings at Rome. This she much regretted at first, but having since heard of Your Majesty's ever-increasing care for her interests, and of the efforts made in all directions for her sake, she has laid aside her regret, and trusts that the delay will prove rather useful than otherwise. She is now engaged in procuring witnesses to attest that she did not live with prince Arthur as his wife. If that only could be proved the whole case would be at an end at once. I fear, however, that such a proof will be a very difficult one to establish. Many able books are being written here in her favour, which will be sent at once to Messire Mai. As to the information, and documents which that ambassador mentions in his letters all that could be obtained has already been sent to him.
I venture again to bring my own private affairs before Your Majesty. The great expenses and considerable losses which I once had to sustain whilst in the service of Monseigneur de Bourbon (whom may God forgive), the unsettled state of affairs at Geneva, whence I can draw no resources, embolden me again to beg Your Imperial Majesty to remember the promises made respecting my pension and salary. Indeed if the dearth of provisions in this country, which has increased to double the amount during the last two years, and the smallness of my salary, inferior to that of most other Imperial ambassadors, be taken into account it will be found that I have great difficulty in maintaining the reputation and honour of the post to which I have been appointed. I, therefore, humbly beseech Your Majesty to grant me some ecclesiastical benefice or pension with which I may provide for the duties and expenses of this my office, if not as a reward for my services and good-will, at least for the sake of the memory of the above-named Prince (Monsieur de Bourbon), that the world at large may know in various ways that Your Imperial Majesty has not forgotten the good services and commendable memory of the said Prince.—London, 13th November 1530.
Signed: "Eustace Chapuys."
Addressed: "To the Emperor."
Indorsed: "From the ambassador in England. Received at Spiers (Spires) on the 4th of December."
French. Holograph, pp. 11.
13 Nov. 493. Miçer Mai to the Emperor.
S. E. L. 850,
ff. 116-7.
B. M. Add. 28,582,
f. 17.
Wrote on the 3rd, but as Miçer Andrea del Burgo is dispatching a courier, will again profit by the opportunity. On Sunday, eight days ago, the said Burgo, Muxetula, and he (Mai) called on the duke of Albany [John Stuart], with whom they had a long talk on the affairs which, he says, have brought him here. Two days after the Duke returned his (Mai's) call, and the question of the marriage alliance and succour to the king of Hungary was again discussed. Relates at length the conversations he had with the Duke, and afterwards with the Pope. Tried to persuade the latter that the demand of his niece's hand was only a stratagem of the French to draw him into something else. It could not be seriously entertained, inasmuch as it was evident that those who asked for it had been, and were actually, trying for that of the princess Mary of Portugal, daughter of queen Eleanor and of the king of that country, (fn. n21) deceased. As to their offers of succour, no categorical answer had been received from them since the first meeting at Bologna; what the Duke now proposed was evidently intended only to gain time. The Pope was entirely of his (Mai's) opinion. &c.
The night before last cardinal Ravenna called and brought news that Giovan Paolo de Chierre (Ceri) had said to the Duke [of Albany] that he was on the eve, now that there was no war, (fn. n22) of going into business of some sort or other, and that the Duke begged him not to do anything of the kind, as the king of France would soon have occasion to employ him, and all other "condottieri" of his class.
At the Duke's request the Pope has had all operations against Bracciano suspended for one month.
Cardinal Cornaro told him some days ago the suspicions which this coming of the duke of Albany's [to Home] had aroused at Venice. "For God's sake (said he) let us have no more of these French intrigues in Italy, for if this man (meaning the duke of Albany) can in any way influence the Pope we shall have another war as disastrous as the past."
(Cipher:) Notwithstanding Gonzaga's and Soria's strenuous efforts at Siena, the affairs of that Republic are far from being settled. Don Fernando [Ferrante Gonzaga] has lately been of opinion that the four orders that hold the government of the Republic should be formed into one, but this is a sort of thing which the Sienese dislike most; besides which, if they could not manage their affairs, divided as they were, in four "monti," it stands to reason that there is less chance now that it is proposed to make them into one.
Fancies that the number of those excepted from the general amnesty there ought to be increased. It would appear after all that only four of the "fuorusciti" are to be punished, whereas the number of those who took up arms and made themselves very obnoxious at the time of the duke of Albany's inroad was very considerable. (fn. n23) He (Mai) would not for the world oppose His Majesty's clemency, but he really believes it would be advisable to exclude a few more from the general pardon, that it may henceforward act as a salutary example to others, and at any rate if they are to be pardoned, let them know that they owe their lives to the Emperor.
(Cipher:) Has nothing particular to advise respecting the cause of England, except that he has often written thither and to Spain for the papers that are wanted. From the former country he expects none, for they tell him there are none. Those from Spain Don Pedro de la Cueva might bring with him if he had not left on the receipt of this. Should he bring the brief [of Julius], proceedings might now be resumed at once, for the Pope assures him (Mai) he will no longer hear of suspensions or prorogations. —Rome, 13th November 1530.
Signed: "Mai."
Spanish. Holograph, pp. 4.
13 Nov. 494. The Same to the High Commander.
S. E. L. 850,
ff. 113-4.
B. M. Add. 28,582,
f. 22.
The enclosed despatch for the Emperor will acquaint His Lordship with the progress of the various negociations entrusted to Muxetula and to him.
Commander Urries has come, and says that he does not consider the Cardinal's judgment in the affair as certain, but that in the end he will follow our advice. (fn. n24)
Those papers from Spain, let them come as soon as possible.—Rome, 13th November 1530.
Signed: "Mai."
Addressed: "To Francisco de los Cobos, (sic) High Commander of Leon, first secretary of the Council of the Emperor, our Lord."
Spanish. Holograph, pp. 1½
13 Nov. 495. Don Pedro de la Cueva to the Emperor.
S. E. L. 849,
f. 11.
B. M. Add. 28,582,
f. 24.
Arrived at Siena on the 11th. Has sent to the High Commander an account of what was done there. If he meets with no accident in crossing the forest of Vacano, (fn. n25) expects to be at Rome on Monday.—Piença, (fn. n26) 13th November 1530.
Signed: "Don Pedro de la Cueva."
Addressed: "To the most Invincible Emperor, our Sovereign Lord."
Spanish. Holograph, p. 1.
14 Nov. 496. The Same to the High Commander.
S. E. L. 850,
f. 115.
B. M. Add. 28,582,
f. 25.
Wrote yesterday by estafette. The bearer of this will be Sancho de Alarcon, who will take his departure this evening.
Letters came yesterday from the camp, announcing the arrival of Don Pedro de la Cueva there on the 12th. He was to start next day, so that he may be expected here in Rome to-morrow. Is anxious for his arrival, for he has had no news from Court for several days.
The duke of Albany dined yesterday with His Holiness. He (Mai) has tried to learn what was the subject of their conversation, and has been told that the Duke said to the Pope that the object of Francesco Sforza in going to Venice was to raise money in order to redeem the fortresses of the Duchy that were pledged to the Emperor, and that the Venetians were inclined to grant his request lest the most Christian King should come to terms with the Emperor respecting the said duchy. He said besides, that in case of the money being given, he (the Pope) ought to do his utmost to delay the restitution of the said fortresses. As the Pope made no reply to this, the Duke did not further explain his idea.
The same duke gave the Pope a treatise on the manner of waging war on the Turk, of which a copy is here enclosed. (fn. n27)
Letters from France state that between that country and England, symptoms of not very good friendship are apparent just now, and that king Henry complains that the most Christian King does not do in his favour what his people (the English) expected he would do. Also, that all the Italians at the French court had been ordered away from Orleans, and appointed to meet him at Paris, no doubt, for the purpose of gaining time, and perhaps also to avoid their importunities, for it is said that the sum of their various claims amounts to 280,000 crs.
Your Lordship must already be aware of the taking of Geneva by the Lutheran Swiss, and that the people of the Cantons were arming on both sides. Should the former come victorious out of the contest, fears may be entertained about Milan, if, as vaguely reported, it is true that there are sinister projects against it.
The duke of Albany has positively assured the Pope that the Emperor intends going back to Spain by way of Italy, but there is no truth in the report; indeed that personage seems to have come to Italy for no other purpose than to embroil matters, and to be always routing up the stones to find some treasures underneath. Yet notwithstanding his repeated importunities, the undertaking against Bracciano has not been suspended, as he (Mai) announced in his despatch to the Emperor, and the Pope seems in earnest this time.—Rome. 14th November 1530.
Signed: "Mai."
Addressed: "To the High Commander, &c."
Spanish Holograph, pp. 2.


  • n1. "La separacion de aquel Serenissimo Rey y su amiga."
  • n2. Cesare de Triulciis, bishop of Como.
  • n3. "Et per poter meglio subvenire et maturamente provedere al detto bene et affare universale della Christianita durante il detto tempo et per meglio satisfare alle domanda et errori Lutheriani, et pensare del modo et luogo conveniente et buone conditioni per convocar il concilio se ne sera bisogno (et che altrimenti non si posse far meglio et accordarci, et remittere la Christianita in buono stato et servitio di Dio), si risolva il tempo prontamente al qual senza alcuna sumptuosita o spesa se habbino a trovar a Turino o in altro luogo piu commodo et conveniente."
  • n4. "Tanto del mariaggio cominciato de la figlia naturale dello Imperator como del parentado col Christianissimo, et non se impediriano."
  • n5. "A ceste cause ausy pour premierement communiquer avec luy de son besongnier en cort, et de la matiere dont yl avoit pleu a vostre maieste commander ainsy fere, differe[r]ay ma dite allee."
  • n6. "Il me confirme ce quil mavoit dit au paravant que la cause de son allee en court avoit este pour presenter la reponse a la lettre, &c."
  • n7. "Iallay en court ou eu pour rencontre les seigneurs de Norphoc et de Vulchier que me refreschirent les nouvelles dont yl mavoint envoye entrenner le bon jour de tous sainctz questoent, &c."
  • n8. "Cart puysque les choses estoint reduytes jusque a quattre articles a sçavoir: de la communication soub deux especes, du marriage du prestres, de hoster le cane (?) de la messe et priuer les gens desglize de biens temporelz, vostre maieste pour le bien de paix et union pouroit bien condescendre a cella et en ce gratiffier aux Lutheriens, vehu que nestoint choses que ne se puyssent raysonnablemant octroyer, speciallemant la derniere questoit celle dont plus se fussent contentes les ditz Lutheriens."
  • n9. "Cart autre superieur na le pape du prejudice du quel yl se agisoit."
  • n10. "[Et ouvertemant le tout sadressoit contre le pape] toutesfoys quant je le nommez ung coup il me dit tout soudain quil [ne parloit point du pape, [ce] que ue fut synon pour me engendrer quelque jalousie et suspicion]."
  • n11. Written Norcarives.
  • n12. "En tegmonniage quil me dit que [monseigneur de norcariues avoit este en france, et quil estoit esbey que en sa credence il navoit eu aucune charge dentrer en propoz de ce concille, commil avoit veu par la teneur de tout ce quil avoit propose.]"
  • n13. "La quelle chose ne croyoit pour autant que [les françois lont ausi abbuse, ou quil le se donne [a] entendre que rien se passe en france dont il ne soit aduerty]."
  • n14. "Et que la pape pretendoit estre sur ce concille par une constitution du pape pie que excommunie ceulx qui appellent au concille."
  • n15. "La quelle constitution ainsy que croys yl a apprins [en se conseillant commil le pourroit fere quant il seroit condempne du pape.]"
  • n16. "Sur tout se douloit yl du porchas que dernierement a este fait en france."
  • n17. "Voyant que le roy non obstant toutes remonstrances et gracieusetez demouroit en son obstination, ausy quil mavoit dit que vostre maieste ne pouvant [venir a chief de ses afferes recoroit voulentiers a ceulx dont en sa prosperite faisoit peu dextime, je ne le vouluz laysser en telle [gloire], et luy dis, &c."
  • n18. "Fut prins de northamberlan et remys entre les mains de tallebot, son ancien malveuilliant."
  • n19. "Peu de temps avant quil fust prins yl se deslougea de la ou yl estoit pour aller allieurs, et eust bien vi. c. chevaux de compagnie, que ne luy a pas esmende son cas. De ce temps la il madvertit de ses nouvelles, me priant que voulsisse entendre du nonce sil [n] auoit point charge de parler de son affere et quil estoit en chemin et espoir de revenir au dessus."
  • n20. "Le dit Nonce me declaire auoir eu charge du dit affere et en icelle se conduire et guider par laduis et volente du dit Jehan Jocquin, et que le dit Jocquin nestoit pas bien avec lautre pour ainsy quil navoit riens [peu] parler sur le dit affere."
  • n21. Dom Manuel, who died in 1521, and was succeeded by his son João III He had been married first to Doña Isabel, daughter of Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain.
  • n22. "Que ahora que no habia guerra queria entrar en negocios."
  • n23. In 1525, previous to the battle of Pavia.
  • n24. "Que no tiene por seguro el juicio del Cardenal, pero que hará lo que yo querré del concierto, y assi entienden en ello." The cardinal here alluded to is evidently Garcia de Loaysa, bishop of Osma.
  • n25. " Ni de aquello ni de otra cosa no digo mas sino que si el vosque de Vacano (?) me dexa en paz, mauana lunes con el ayuda de Dios seré en Roma."
  • n26. Thus in the original; Pienza, in Tuscany ?
  • n27. Probably the same printed at page 794.