Spain: October 1530, 25-31

Pages 784-791

Calendar of State Papers, Spain, Volume 4 Part 1, Henry VIII, 1529-1530. Originally published by Her Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1879.

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October 1530, 25-31

26 Oct. 475. Gio. Ant. Muxetula to the Emperor.
S. E. L. 849,
f. 69.
B. M. Add. 28,581
f. 297.
Wrote yesterday, enclosing the draft of the Papal brief, engaging these Italian potentates to contribute. The Emperor will perceive that a, clear allusion is therein made to the Lutherans, because had it been otherwise, and merely intended against the Turk, the Pope thinks that it would not have been quite so easy to make these people, and specially the Venetians, come forward with their respective contributions, for many reasons which the Emperor's ministers cannot fail to appreciate. This notwithstanding, the Pope has since determined that the briefs are not to be so clearly directed against the Lutherans, but to go in credence of the Nuncio he is about to send [to Germany], who will verbally explain his reasons for acting thus, because should these be stated in writing the Lutherans might take offence, and perhaps enter into a conspiracy with the Turks themselves, which would entail greater trouble and anxiety on the Emperor, and place Christianity in greater danger.
Affairs of Florence, and the expediency of removing the German garrison therefrom. The citizens themselves have entreated His Holiness to exert all his influence to have them replaced by 1,000 Italians under Alessandro Vitelli. The Germans cost full 8,000 crs., whereas the Italians may be had for half that sum. Marramaldo's men, to the number of 3,000, are still on Florentine territory, because the Pope has not yet paid them the whole of their arrears, but it is fully expected that before the end of this month they will be paid in full and dismissed.
Encloses a letter from cardinal Colonna, in answer to his about the money to come from Naples. Has written to Don Fernando [de Gonzaga] respecting the Sienese, and told him to avoid all occasion of annoying them about the quartering of troops in their territory.—Roma, 26th October 1530.
Spanish. Holograph. pp. 2.
28 Oct. 476. Miçer Mai to the Emperor.
S. E. L. 849,
f. 101.
B.M, Add. 28,581,
Since his last of the 21st the Pope has changed his mind respecting the briefs to be sent to the Italian potentates as Muxetula must have reported.
(Cipher:) The Venetian ambassador went this very morning to the Pope and said that he had received information, not from the Signory, but from private persons, to the effect that this substitution of Lutherans for Turks, as clearly and openly expressed in the draft of the brief about to be issued, had caused considerable excitement throughout that city, because people said that after all the measure was likely to stir the Turk up against them, for that ever since the agreement made at Bologna he had looked upon them with an evil eye, and received their ambassadors badly.
(Common writing:) The Pope thinks that if good intelligence were to be established with the Catholic cantons of Switzerland some money might be obtained from the Venetians.
Ferrante Gonzaga and the garrison of Florence.—Thinks, as the Pope does, that the Germans under count Lodrone ought to be replaced by an equal number of Italians under Alessandro Vitelli.
Three hundred foot are to occupy Bracciano this very night, and will begin to-morrow to assault the "rocca." His Holiness thinks that it will surrender in less than 20 days, and is determined, as he says, to have it dismantled.
A lawyer has arrived here on the part of the duke of Mantua to ascertain, as he says, whether his master is bound to this marriage without giving fresh consent. (fn. n1) He called on me and asked me the question, but as I had already delivered Your Majesty's message on that head to the Pope, and told him what your wishes were, I have given the Duke's agent an evasive answer. The Pope tells me that when the Queen, mother of Doña Giulia, heard of this, she sent word to the Duke to say that he had better consult Your Majesty about it, that she and her daughter had nothing to do in the affair except to obey Your Majesty's commands. And upon the Pope remarking that the parties concerned intended taking the cause to the Rota, and summoning Doña Giulia to appear, I begged him to prevent it until we heard from Your Majesty, to which His Holiness fully agreed. I therefore beg for instructions how to act in this case, because on the one hand I am persuaded that the Duke does not wish to marry the lady, and that rather than give way he would proceed to any extremity, and on the other, though I have not had leisure enough to study the affair, I am inclined to think that the Duke's resistance is to a certain extent justifiable.
Advices from England state that the majority of the people and the Privy Council also are convinced that in order to proceed "de facto" in the divorce affair it is indispensable to have some show of authority, (fn. n2) and that without it they will attempt nothing.
Negociations between the Pope and the duke of Ferrara—Rome, 28th October 1530.
Signed: "Mai."
Addressed: "To the Sacred Majesty of the Emperor and King, our Sovereign Lord."
Spanish. Holograph. pp. 2½.
28 Oct. 477. Dr. Ortiz to the Emperor.
S. E. L. 19, f. 6. Wrote from Madrid on the 16th, announcing his departure. Could not get there the papers he wanted, and was obliged to come to Ocaña, where he has received part of them. As soon as the remainder comes he will leave for Rome. Has written to Mr. de Grandvela (Granvelle), who will report about him.—Ocaña, 28th October 1530.
Signed: "El Doctor Ortiz."
Addressed: "To the Sacred, Imperial, and Catholic Majesty of the Emperor and King, our Lord."
Spanish. Original p. 1.
30 Oct. 478. The Emperor to Rodrigo Niño.
S. E. L. 1,557,
f. 313.
Has received his letter of the 14th inst.
B. M. Add.28,581,
f. 324.
Commends his zeal in procuring information respecting the negociations between the dukes of Milan and Ferrara and the Signory of Venice. Orders him to write as often as he can and report on the said negociations and their issue; but above all concerning the marriage of the duke of Milan to the daughter of the king of England.
The duke of Milan has told the Venetian ambassador that the king of France had applied to us for the investiture of that Duchy, and promised for it the 900,000 ducats which the Duke (Sforza) had engaged to pay. There is no truth what in this statement.
When prothonotary Caracciolo goes to Venice he (Niño) is to ask him what information he possesses respecting the negociations of the two dukes, and at the same time inform him of the intended marriage of the duke of Milan and the princess of England. He is also to ask Caracciolo whether he has, or has not, written anything to us on the subject.—Augsburg, 30th October 1530.
Addressed: "To Rodrigo Niño, Imperial ambassador in Venice."
Spanish. Original draft in the handwriting of secretary Idiaquez. pp. 2.
30 Oct. 479. The Emperor to Pedro de la Cueva.
S. E. Pat. Re. Cap.
c. Pont. L. 1, f.84.
B.M. Add. 28,581
f. 325.
The following are the instructions given by the Emperor to Don Pedro de la Cueva, (fn. n3) of His Council, and his chamberlain (mayordomo) to negociate with the Pope.
Is to ask for cardinals' hats for the archbishops of Seville and Santiago, the lord of Monaco, and the archbishop of Capua. When at Bologna [in 1529] His Holiness promised to attend to this our request.
Should the Pope answer you that as he then granted us three, the fourth might be discounted from those We now ask, you will tell him that for the fourth hat which he then granted We have already appointed a person of such quality and parts that We are sure he will be most acceptable, and that We now beg him to give us four more still.
We recommend you the utmost secrecy in this affair, both before and after your visit to Rome, so that, even in the case of His Holiness granting our request, as We hope he will do, it may remain for some time secret.—Augusta (Augsburg) 30th October 1530.
P.S.—Should His Holiness make any difficulty about this you will not fail to represent to him with what facility he gave one to Tarbes, and what people thought of his nomination at the time, and that We have never importuned him before for the sake of hats to Spaniards, although there are many who deserve that dignity well.
Spanish. Original draft. pp. 3.
— Oct. 480. The Emperor to the Pope. (fn. n3)
S. E. Rom. L. 1,
f. 186.
B.M. Add. 28,580,
Thanks him for the grant of the Council. Gives at full length the reasons for holding one as soon as possible. The place of meeting is indifferent to him provided it suits His Holiness. Recommends Mantua or Milan as the cities nearest to Germany, whose prince electors, whether Lutheran or Catholic, dislike going farther off.
(fn. n4)
Sends Don Pedro de la Cueva, his "mayordomo," for whom he begs credence.
Spanish. Original minute, pp. 5.
31 Oct. 481. Eustace Chapuys to the Emperor.
K. u. K. Haus-
Hof-u.-Staats Arch.
c. 226, No. 44.
I informed Your Majesty in my letter of the 15th that Brian (Sir Francis) had left London, but it was only to take leave of his wife; he returned three days afterwards to start on his journey. The day before his departure Jehan Jocquin invited me to dinner to meet the Papal Nuncio, and I gladly accepted the invitation, hoping to find out what Brian was going to France for. Could not, however, discover anything except that he was going to that country as resident ambassador, where he is to take several pages as presents (fn. n5) and some horses. Thought also I might learn the reason of Jocquin's long stay at Dover, about which I wrote on the 1st inst., but could not get anything from him except that it was for the purpose of having a certain hermitage there rebuilt and especially to escape from the plague (peste) which generally prevails here during the month of September. Still I believe there is something else at the bottom of it.
The day before yesterday the duke of Norfolk having arrived here sent me a message about a Spanish vessel which they want to detain here, and also to apologize for not coming to see me personally, which he said was in consequence of one of my household servants having died of the plague. The Duke ordered the vessel to be released at once, and said that as to his apology for not having called upon me the truth was that since the death of his daughter he was terribly afraid of the plague, but that this excuse, though it might have served for others, he considered insufficient in my case, and therefore, though he had been ordered to return immediately to Court, he would wait for me in town till noon. At the Duke's the conversation turned among other things on the breaking up of the Diet, and the affairs of Germany, which, he said, were in the worst possible plight. There had never been a. time when union among Christian princes was more needed than at present, but this dispute about the marriage was troubling all Christendom, especially this kingdom, which would be utterly ruined should the King happen to die before the case was decided. Replied that if he (the Duke) would carefully consider what had passed he would find that neither prince nor subject could have acted in this business better than Your Majesty had done at the Diet, on which point I feared the King had been much misinformed. Said this purposely in consequence of what the King had told the Nuncio, and since they confessed—though they seemed to think this rather a feather in their cap-that the dispute going on here was the cause of the disturbance of Christendom, I added that they should really fear to provoke God's anger. They had always wished, in order to prevent that very ruin and destruction of their country to which they alluded for the prompt decision of the case. This Your Majesty had always done his best to accomplish, but they on the contrary had done all they could to delay it, for, in spite of all their seals, signatures, and consultations, the point was still undecided. The Duke said they had only sought delay in order to oppose the jurisdiction of the Pope, which they considered dangerous, and that whatever mien His Holiness might put upon it it was evident that he did not really desire a complete accord among the princes of Christendom, knowing very well that a General Council might thereby be assembled, which would clip his wings and take away his temporal power. (fn. n6) Asked the Duke then whether since the King declined the Pope's jurisdiction he had thought of any other way of settling the question, to which he replied that he considered the case as settled if only the Queen would but acknowledge that she had lived with prince Arthur as his wife, which, he said, could be easily proved, and to which the king would swear. After some discussion on the statements and suggestions which the King had made and the oath which the Queen herself had once taken before the Legates (Wolsey and Campeggio) the Duke began to speak very highly of the Queen, but said that all the same her; coming to this kingdom and the alliance with Spain had been the cause of nearly destroying England, and should probably have completed the ruin of the country by the unlawfulness of the marriage. This statement the Duke repeated four or five times, adding that I (Chapuys) should be of the same opinion if I knew his reasons for saying so. He was at length induced to explain these reasons, which were that the Catholic king, wishing to preserve Naples and conquer Navarre, had brought the English into war with France, which had completely exhausted their resources, and that God, desiring to manifest his displeasure at the marriage, had denied them male offspring; that the unlawfulness of the marriage was likely to renew many ancient feuds in the kingdom, and open the way for the king of Scotland to rise against the Princess should the King die without male issue, all of which he said would bring great misery on the kingdom. Refuted these arguments of the Duke easily enough, so completely indeed that he really did not know what to reply. Will not weary Your Majesty with all that was said on this occasion, only that I told the Duke that if it were but out of respect for the King's father (Henry VII.) they should not throw such blame on the alliance then made with Spain. He (Henry) knew how kingdoms were to be conquered and kept, and there being competitors for the Crown, both within and without the country, he ought to know that his greatest safety lay in his alliance with Spain. The Duke would not let me go on with my reasoning, but cut me short by saying that it was perfectly true that the King's father had come to the throne without right or proper title beyond that of having got rid of the tyrant who had murdered his own nephews, but that the present king was nevertheless the rightful heir and had no competitors. Replied that I had no wish to enter on such delicate subjects, but the Duke no doubt assuming that however little interest I took in it I must nevertheless know that his statement was untrue, tried to make out that the quarrel of the White Rose was now extinct, there being others whose claim to the Crown was preferable.
Returning after this digression to the Queen's case, the Duke said that he had received in the King's favour the seals of the universities of Bologna and Padua, and that about a month ago, the Pope had said to the King's ambassadors that all the doctors to whom he had spoken on this matter shared the King's views, and tried to make him believe that Your Majesty would be pleased rather than otherwise should the Queens cause be condemned. Replied "if this were so there was no excuse whatever for not admitting the Pope's jurisdiction in this case;" but the Duke would hear nothing of that.
The Duke also said that to avoid any suspicion of his wishing his own son to marry the Princess, he intended to marry him before the end of another month to a lady to whom but for this consideration he would not have married him, even had she 30,000 crowns more revenue than she actually had. He added that the King intended to make short and sharp work with the Lutherans. I have no doubt he will, for among their books one has been found very much to the King's disadvantage, and in favour of the Queen.
At the end of the interview I begged the Duke to consider and let me know whether there was anything I could do for the settlement of this dispute, for that I would do it with all my heart. The Duke made the same request of me, saying that he hoped in a few days both of us would be able to communicate our mutual opinions on the subject. Just as I was leaving the room the earl of Wiltshire arrived, at which the Duke said he was glad, as I had not seen the Earl since his return from Italy. The Earl having inquired after Your Majesty's health and most courteously offered his services, began slandering the Pope and cardinals so violently that full of horror at what was being said I took leave and left the room immediately.
I have duly informed the Nuncio of all this, telling him that unless the Pope has this question settled at once, and should the Earl and his daughter remain in power, they will entirely alienate this kingdom from its allegiance to the Pope. The Nuncio quite agrees with my views, and promised to write to His Holiness expressly about it.
I hear from pretty good authority that Monsgr. de Bayonne came over here at this king's request, to treat, among other things, of a private league with France, but that Monsgr. de Bayonne, by his master's commands, asked so many and such exorbitant conditions to conclude the said league that the King was exceedingly angry, that and no other being the real cause of the quarrel to which I have alluded in one of my former despatches. Now I hear that they are trying to make matters straight again, and have the conditions demanded by the French modified.—London, 31st October 1530.
Signed: "Eustace Chapuys."
French. Holograph mostly in cipher, pp. 4.


  • n1. "Si es obligado á este casamiento sin dar nuevo consentimiento."
  • n2. "Algun hazidero (asidero?) de autoridad."
  • n3. Don Pedro de la Cueva was the youngest son of Don Beltran de la Cueva, by Doña Maria de Velasco, his third wife. The instructions concerning the Council and the Emperor's letter to Clement were both published in 1848 by Dr. Heine, of Berlin, in Briefe an Kaiser Karl V., 1530-32, pp. 529-33.
  • n4. In Bergenroth's volume the draft of this letter of credence, which is undated, has been wrongly placed after a despatch of Mai of the 30th of Augusa (see Catalogue of Spanish Manuscripts in the British Museum, vol. ii., p. 590); but as the ambassador himself did not arrive in Rome until the 15th November, and in obedience to the Emperor's commands, then at Augsburg, made all possible haste, it is not to be presumed that he was three full months on his way to Rome. For this reason I have placed it here immediately after the instructions, No. 479, which must have been signed and delivered about the same time, although the minute itself is without date. Don Pedro, as has already been stated, was the son of Don Beltran de la Cueva, count of Ledesma and first duke of Alburquerque (the celebrated favourite of Henry IV. of Castille), by his third wife Doña Maria de Velasco. Another and fuller letter to the Pope on general affairs, and principally on the convocation of a general council, which seems to have been Don Pedro's chief mission, is in Bergenroth's volume X., Add. 28,581, p. 311, under the date of 13th October.
  • n5. "Ou il menne plusieurs pages pour donner et quelques chevaux."
  • n6. "Qui lui ouseroit couper les aesles (ailes ?) et luy oster la temporalite."