Spain: September 1533, 16-31

Pages 800-816

Calendar of State Papers, Spain, Volume 4 Part 2, 1531-1533. Originally published by Her Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1882.

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September 1533, 16-31

17 Sept. 1128. Count de Cifuentes to the Same.
S. E. L. 860,
f. 12.
B. M. Add. 28,586,
f. 3.
The Emperor's letters of the 18th, 27th, and 30th ulto, in answer to his (the Count's) of the 5th and 13th by Rodrigo Davalos, have duly come to hand. Has since then written on the 21st by ordinary post, and again on the 30th by a gentleman from Naples sent to announce the news of Coron, of late occurrences what he (the Count) has to record is this:
Told the Pope according to his instructions the message about the matrimonial suit of England. His Holiness was glad to hear that the Emperor had been pleased with his declaration on the subject. Respecting that on the principal cause, which is also most desirable, His Holiness said that he still perseveres in his purpose of having justice done as soon as possible, and would do all that is wanted therein. (Cipher:) Having afterwards shewn him, according to orders, a copy of the paper which the English ambassador had put into the Emperor's hands, he (the Pope) was extremely sorry, and very much hurt at what the King had written about him, adding: "I wish His Imperial Majesty had not expressed a wish that this communication of the king of England should be kept perfectly secret; I should otherwise have it printed and posted up in the streets of Rome that everyone should know the King's good intentions, and that he leans more towards Lutheranism than to Christianity." This His Holiness repeated twice or three times, and then said: "The King's memorandum seems to me to have been drawn for the discredit and contempt of the Holy Apostolic See. The promises, which they say I made both in the brief, and in the decretal, are not to be interpreted as they do interpret them; they mean quite the reverse. All these things are mere stratagems and cavilling of the English to make their case good with the Emperor." (fn. n1)
Many other similar things did His Holiness say in disparagement of the King and against his memorandum, and then having read the Emperor's answers to each paragraph, which were also shewn to him, he observed that he should have wished the reply to the first of them had been longer and more explicit, though all things considered he held them all to be both wise and prudent. That to the second paragraph he liked much better; nothing could be more fitting or appropriate. After this, having asked His Holiness what his orders were, and what he (the Count) was to write about this matter, His Holiness answered that he could not then say, but would think of it, and let him know soon.
Has reason to believe that His Holiness thinks some sort of public demonstration ought to be made against the king of England's manifesto. He was, however, grateful that being a private and confidential communication it should have been shewn to him first.
(Common writing:) Respecting the action to be taken by the Emperor for the execution of the sentence he (the Count) failed not to repeat his assurances in general terms, saying that owing to the dignity which God had conferred upon him, and his close relationship to the queen of England, the Emperor could not fail to do his utmost in upholding and countenancing His Holiness on such an occasion; and it must be said that the Pope took his assurances better this time than he had done before.
One of the things which the Pope intends treating of in France when he has his interview with the King, is, as people do assert, and is apparent enough, to convince the King, as well as the lawyers and prelates who may happen to be with him, that the sentence was judically given, for those who are in favour of the king of England pretend that he (the Pope) had no right at all to give it as he did, maintaining that the question must be debated. For this purpose the Pope has deputed auditors Simonetta and Capisucci, who are to take [to France] with them a copy of the proceedings. He has also ordered the Imperial advocate, Joan Luis Aragonia, to go with them, though this letter excuses himself saying that he does not know whether His Imperial Majesty will like the affair being disputed at all. His Holiness, on the other hand, tells him that he is not going to France as the Queen's advocate, but as a member of this College [of Advocates?] for he actually is one of them. Aragonia (fn. n2) persists in his refusal, and quotes as a precedent that when His Majesty was last at Bologna he would not allow any dispute to take place, since no resolution was likely to come out of it. Aragonia maintained that in this instance his presence in France is not required; no good (he says) can result from the dispute in a matter exclusively of His Holiness' incumbence. The Emperor could never give his consent to it, as it would only tend to the discredit of the cause itself and the loss of Papal authority, He (the Count) has advised Aragona to persist in his refusal, but not to give him as his authority, and the Auditor, though in the Pope's service and in his pay, has hitherto resisted as a good servant that he is of the Emperor. Yet as the Pope has ordered the advocates to take to France with them that of the king of England, and another one of the Queen's, Aragona has been so circumvented and pressed on all sides that he (the Count) fears he will in the end be obliged to go. He has, however, agreed not to decide until he has spoken to His Holiness, and entreated him not to be sent upon such an errand, on the plea that a sentence given by him with so much authority on his part and that of the Sacred College [of Cardinals] could not, and ought not, to he disputed, this giving the king of France occasion to dispute or oppose a judgment so maturely deliberated. Aragonia has, therefore, decided not to go until an answer come from His Holiness, which he (the Count) expects in two or three days at the latest, for owing to the Pope's continual changes he could not accompany him, and is still in Rome. (fn. n3)
Whenever an opportunity occurs he will not fail to speak to His Holiness about the reliance and trust which the king of England seems to place in the Papal Nuncio.
Spanish. Contemporary abstract made for the Emperor's inspection.
17 Sept. 1129. The Same to the High Commander.
S. E. L. 860, f. 12.
B. M. Add. 28,585,
f. 14.
No answer has yet come from Switzerland. The proposed reduction of the Zurichians about which the prior of Besançon writes to His Majesty, I could not possibly forward in any way, this being a matter which belongs privately and exclusively to His Holiness, inasmuch as the said Zurichians ask for the payment of what they pretend is owing to them. The only thing I did was to recommend the payment and persuade the Pope to write to the Verulan (Filonardo) thereupon. This, however, I could not achieve; the Pope refuses to pay the Zurichians the 14,000 or 15,000 crs. or florins owing to them unless they return to the Faith and to the obedience of the Apostolic See. The better to prove his willingness (the Pope says) orders had been given that over and above the amount of their debt 1,000 crs. more should be distributed among the chief citizens of that canton, provided they should first come to Rome and return to the Faith, not otherwise, as he says, (cipher:) that being reprobate and wicked (villanos y malos) they are capable of taking his money and remaining in their errors, or even getting deeper and deeper into them and then demand double the amount. (Common writing:) For the speedy settlement of this matter and others equally important Jacopo Salviati, who died on the 4th instant, would have been a fit agent, for he was undoubtedly a good servant of the Empire. It is not known yet to whom His Holiness will commend this affair and others some say to the bishop of Verona (Gianmatheo Giberti). I have tried to ascertain from a good source whether that is likely to be the case, but they tell me that the Capuan (Niccolo Schomberg) is likely to be appointed, inasmuch as he had them before under his care only that he has been and is still suffering from the gout. I believe it, for the other day as I went to condole for the death of Salviati, which the Pope has felt immensely, he said to me that he fully intended the Capuan to fill his place, "for (he said) he seems to me well intentioned, wise and trusty," but since he told me that, and the Capuan himself sent me message that he was preparing to accompany His Holiness, he has been so troubled with fits of gout that he has been obliged to remain behind.
(Cipher:) I am sorry for that, for he might have been very useful in our master's service.
(fn. n4)
With regard to the Council, as I said in my despatch to the Emperor, I have not spoken to the Pope owing to this interview being considered by some politicians to be the fittest opportunity to bring it about. The answer I got from His Majesty was that I had done well in not mentioning the subject. I intend, therefore, to keep my mouth shut until I receive fresh orders to the contrary, inasmuch as it is rumoured here that for fear of the Council meeting His Holiness will protract as much as he can his stay in France, which, as Your Lordship knows, is very much against his will and intentions. Respecting this affair, as the Pope was shewing me the other day the enclosed letters both from his Nuncio in France and from the German princes, I spoke to him in rather equivocal language and got out of the difficulty as well as I could. (fn. n5) He himself requested me to send copies of them to the Emperor. I must add that the letter of the Nuncio contains a paragragh touching the affair of the dukes of Bavaria, about which I wrote to the Emperor some time ago; but I gather from Your Lordship's answer that the king of France will be unable to achieve anything in that quarter, however pressing his solicitations may be.
Before His Holiness' departure from Rome I spoke to him many a time about this interview. He assured me that he would prevail upon king Francis not to make war, at least for the next two years; and as to treating with him, or with any other potentate, he promised not to make any treaty whatsoever without the Emperor's consent. On three different occasions has he repeated this to me, and begged me to write home to that effect.
Read to him the Emperor's letter of the 27th ulto together with Your Lordship's own respecting the execution by order of the duke of Milan of Squire Meraveglia, as well as of the herald sent by the king of France. I observed how very strange it was that just at the time when he and the king of that country were to meet for the peace and welfare of Christendom, the latter should challenge the duke Francesco [Sforza] and talk of invading his estate unless he received satisfaction. The Pope's answer was that if the Duke took cetain measures he had no doubt the King's anger would subside. After this the Milanese ambassador called at this embassy and begged me to accompany him to His Holiness, as he said he wanted to exculpate his master, giving the many motives he had for Meraveglia's execution, and complaining highly of the conduct of the King, who, he said, had no reason to ask for a satisfaction since the Squire was neither a Frenchman nor an ambassador, &c.
On this occasion I reminded the Milanese ambassador of the fact that his master had not yet deposited his quota [for the Turkish war] as agreed by the Bologna convention. He told me that he was almost sure that the Duke had already sent the money to Ansaldo de' Grimaldi. The Sienese, likewise, have forwarded certain bills of exchange on bankers here, at Rome, who have started difficulties about the payment; but as I myself must pass through Siena [on my way to Pisa and Genoa] I will receive the money in that city. The Ferrarese ambassador, on the other hand, writes that his master [Alfonso d'Este] has already made his deposit; and Gomez Suarez de Figueroa confirms the statement. I believe the cause of his complying so soon with our demands in that respect to be no other than the loss of the somewhat important castle of Novi, which Leonelo Pio de Carpio (da Carpi) has lately snatched from him, pretending that it belonged once to his family, and that the French took it from his father and gave it to the duke of Ferrara. However this may be, Leonelo has sent me a written message to inform me of the fact, and to say that he is in every respect a good servant of the Empire. My answer has been that he (Leonelo) had no doubt committed an error; neither His Holiness, whose vassal he was, nor His Majesty, the Emperor, could approve and sanction such doings; nor would they allow the thing to go on. If he considered that he had a right to Novi he had better apply to the Emperor's well known justice. Antonio de Leyva has written to me about this, and I have promised that when I next see the Pope I will represent the affair to him. Meanwhile, I shall feel obliged for instructions in this particular, for I have my doubts as to whether His Holiness in the event of Leonelo resisting, as he is likely to do, will consent to the League spending its treasure for the recovery of that castle.
(Cipher:) One of His Holiness' most confidential servants told me some days ago that the cardinal of Mantua (Hercole de Gonzaga) would accompany His Holiness to the interview with king Francis, as I had the honour to inform the Emperor. I have since heard from an agent of that cardinal who resides here, at Rome, that when His Holiness first ordered a list to be made out of the cardinals who were to accompany him in this journey, he of Mantua was included; but that when the appointment was communicated to him he answered: "His Holiness will perhaps forgive me if I decline the honour, for I would rather not go to France;" from which I conclude that the information conveyed in my despatch of the 5th of August came not from him nor from his agent. The last time I went to the Papal Palace, as I was coming out I met the said agent and asked him what was the true version about his master's journey. "I really cannot say for certain," was his reply, "whether the Cardinal will go to France or not." This evasive answer on the part of the very man who had previously assured me that the Cardinal would not undertake the journey astonished me. However this may be, should he go I will not fail to give him the Emperor's letter and obey orders in that respect. The cardinal of Jaen (Fr. Estevan Gabriel Merino) has remained behind; he of Santa Croce (Quiñones) has departed in obedience (as he says) to His Holiness' commands, who told him that his presence in France was necessary, owing to certain business of his order to be transacted there, and to the general of the Franciscans being unwell.
The other day in conversation with cardinal de Monte respecting the cardinals who are to accompany the Pope in his journey to France, and those who are to remain at Rome, he told me that it had been observed that out of consideration no doubt for our Emperor's service, if not by his express orders, the cardinals most attached to the Empire had remained at Rome, whereas those who were not considered so staunch made part of the Papal suite. "This," he said to me, "cannot but be by the Emperor's express wish and command, and seems an unwise step to take." I assured Monte that His Imperial Majesty had never written to the cardinals about their staying [at home] or going [to France], and in order to mend matters and put a stop to the rumours (platica) which I knew to be afloat, (fn. n6) I added, "I myself have asked several of them, but more particularly Merino, Cesarino, and Campiego (Campeggio) the reason why they do not attend this journey." Monte appeared satisfied with my arguments, &c.
Cardinal de' Medici tells me that since the common report is that during this interview two cardinals' hats are to he given away, he wishes that two more should be placed at the Emperor's disposal, and that one of them should be for bishop Gambara, who has done, and is doing, much good service. My answer was that I knew not what His Majesty's intentions were in this particular, but would inquire, &c.
(Common writing:) Romaricomonte.—The French favour the adverse party, but I will do my best to have the suit sentenced as Your Lordship recommends.
Orihuela and Cartagena; union of the two bishoprics.—"Indulto quadragesimal," &c.
One of the things which His Holiness, as they say, intends to do whilst in France is to shew the king of that country, and such of his lawyers and prelates attached to the king of England as are to go to the place of the interview, that he has proceeded juridically in the sentence he pronounced the other day, for it appears that the opposite party make difficulties and state their reasons why His Holiness could not give sentence as he did, pretending that the case must first be disputed, &c. To meet their objections His Holiness has ordered Simoneta and Capisuccha (Capisucci) to go to Marseilles with a copy of the suit, and has also commanded the Imperial advocate, Juan Luys de Aragonia, to accompany him to France. The latter, however, has declined on the plea that he does not know whether the Emperor will consent to such a disputation taking place. He was told that his mission was not as advocate of the Queen, but of the College [of Cardinals] at Rome; and, moreover, that the English advocates—one for the Queen and another for the King—had also been summoned, and therefore that he could not possibly refuse. He has since called at this embassy and said to me that he is afraid the constitutions of the College to which he belongs will ultimately compel him to go to France, unless I obtain in the meantime an order from the Pope to release him from that duty. I have written and expect an answer in three days.
Some time before his departure for France His Holiness told me that the Vayvod (Zapolsky) had sent powers to a brother of Chevalier (Sir Gregory) Casale, once ambassador of the king of England at Venice, to represent him at the interview, and there present his complaint of having been excommunicated without being heard. He had also sent a message to the Emperor, our common master, offering to make him a mediator between the king of the Romans (Ferdinand) and himself; his offer had been rejected, in consequence of which the Turk had invaded Hungary; and yet he (Zapolsky) had arranged matters so well that he had staid the hand of the Infidel and prevented the total destruction of that country, by which he considered he had rendered a signal service to the Church and to Christendom at large, and, therefore, deserved reward instead of punishment. Of this and other things relating more particularly to the king of the Romans (Ferdinand) I have considered it my duty to apprize his ambassador here, and his secretary at home.
(Ciper:) Of the trust and confidence, which, as Your Lordship informs me, the king of England has in the Papal Nuncio (Baron del Borgho), I was already aware, though by no means so well informed as Your Lordship's letter has now made me. I will not fail at the very first opportunity to mention the subject to His Holiness, and hear what he has to say.
(Common writing:) Though the Pope is well aware of the peace lately concluded between the king of the Romans and the Turk, I will nevertheless communicate the substance of the Imperial despatch to that effect, also the intelligence forwarded by the ambassador at Venice (Rodrigo Niño) assuring us that by one of the articles of the treaty Strigonia (Gran) is to remain in the King's hand, and not, as it was feared, in those of the Vayvod.
Will likewise speak to His Holiness about the Order of St. John taking charge of Coron according to the Emperor's wishes. By this very post the viceroy of Naples (marquis de Villafranca) writes that he is expecting Andrea Doria back soon, and the garrison of that fortress. (fn. n7)
I thank Your Lordship for the remittance of 2,000 ducats towards the expenses of my journey, but my household is so numerous, and I have so many relatives and friends, that it will be hardly sufficient to defray my personal expenses. I have written to the Emperor, asking for a knighthood of Santiago for Diego de Molina, a very able man whom I employ as my secretary, and in whom meet besides all the qualifications required in such cases. As the said Molina is advanced in years, and the Emperor is now in Aragon, (fn. n8) it would be desirable that the grant be made now, and before the Cortes are closed, as there might not be another chapter for many years. Your Lordship says in his letter that the Emperor, our master, has seen with displeasure the want of cordiality between the cardinal of Jaen (Fr. Estevan Gabriel Merino) and myself. I can assure Your Lordship that I am deeply concerned at it. I recollect very well that when I went to take leave of the Emperor, you yourself and the members of the Privy Council told me of a motion having been made in that body for Miçer Mai to remain with me here for four or five months, as a person well acquainted with the affairs of this court. The Emperor, you said, had, however, decided that this should be left entirely to my choice, and I, therefore, came to Rome and began negotiating. I very soon found out that instead of having the authority and prestige due to my charge as ambassador it was publicly rumoured at Rome that the cardinal of Jaen was to conduct the whole of the negotiation, and that I was to do nothing except by his express commands. So convinced of this were these Romans by various precedents, as well as by the Cardinal's own demonstrations, all tending to confirm the general impression, that I can assure Your Lordship that had I not purposely refrained from acquainting him with the Emperor's official affairs, no one here at Rome would have considered me in the light of an Imperial ambassador, nor should I have had sufficient authority to do His Majesty's service. But since, as Your Lordship informs me, the Cardinal has been written to on the subject, I need not say that in future I will no longer conceal anything from him, the Emperor's service will be better done, and the Cardinal will have no cause to complain.
The principal reason for my dispatching this express is to inform Your Lordship that His Holiness actually left on Tuesday the 9th inst. I did not send the express off on that day, owing to His Holiness having told me that he intended to stop at Viterbo (some even added many days). Until I heard that he had left I kept this letter open, and the messenger ready. The news I now have is that His Holiness intends to proceed briskly on his journey, and therefore I am myself on the point of starting, and making all possible haste so as to overtake him. The ambassador at Genoa (Suarez de Figueroa) will no doubt inform Your Lordship of the precise date at which the Duchesina (Caterina) passed through that city. As soon as I heard of it I dispatched my secretary, Archangel, to His Holiness with the news, and also that he may write to the Emperor by this very courier, as he said he would; also to hear whether there is anything new about the Swiss.—Santo Lorenço, (fn. n9) 17th September 1533.
Signed: "Conde Cifuentes."
Addressed: "To the High Commander of Leon, the Emperor's first secretary."
Spanish. Original. pp. 7.
27 Sept. 1130. Eustace Chapuys to the Emperor.
K. u. K. Haus-
c.228, No. 55.
I went the day before yesterday into the country to meet Cromwell, who was hawking, that I might confer with him and hear the news. (fn. n10) After some talk the Queen's affairs became naturally the topic of our conversation, when the opportunity being at hand I failed not to repeat the representations which I had made on a previous occasion, and exhort him as earnestly and warmly as I could to persuade the King to make it up with his Queen and recall her, which I assured him would be no difficult task considering his master's great wisdom, virtue, and integrity, if he (Cromwell) and other members of the Privy Council would only set their hands to the work. I told him that it was far easier for them to remedy the evil now than it would have been in former times, before late events had taken place. (fn. n11) For the King (said I) being naturally of a proud spirit (fn. n12) would have thought himself humiliated and beaten if, notwithstanding his learning and power, he had been unable to carry his design into execution; whereas now, having fully accomplished his wishes, there is every reason to think, considering the modesty and forbearance with which Your Majesty has conducted the whole affair, and the Queen's long-suffering patience, (fn. n13) considering also many other circumstances which it would take me too long to relate, that the time has now come for the King to listen to reason, and like a virtuous and very Catholic prince, and son of the Church, obey the Papal sentence so justly and with such solemnity pronounced at Rome. Which result, I observed, was the more to be anticipated that according to the common saying his countrymen, the English, were readier than any other nation, after a thing was done, to acknowledge their error. (fn. n14) As, however, it might come to pass that the King, for fear of his being accused of inconsistency, or for some other scruple of honour (like those friars, who not out of devotion, but out of pure shame refuse giving up their frock), would shun the aforesaid reconciliation, (fn. n15) I did my utmost to convince Cromwell that not only would the King, his master, not suffer in the estimation of his people, but that his honour and reputation would, on the contrary, be considerably increased through it, as was patent to all parties. "For the King's greater satisfaction (I added), should he agree to my proposal, means might be found for the Emperor to send here one or more ambassadors (personnages), or commission me earnestly and affectionately to request the King to take back (reprendre) his Queen, which request might be made in such a form, and with such insistency, that all appearance or presumption, however slight, of the King's recalling her out of fear or by coercion, would at once be effaced. And, moreover, that the Queen herself might take her most solemn oath, if necessary, before Parliament, or elsewhere if the King should wish it, that she was never carnally known by prince Arthur, which seems after all to be the principal pivot upon which the King's intentions turn. I said further that the King could in no manner fear that the said reconciliation with his Queen should be interpreted as a compulsory or inconsistent act, inasmuch as the very same thing had happened to various other princes whom I proceeded to name, principally the Emperor and king of France, Lothaire, (fn. n16) kings Philip the First, and Philip the Third, surnamed "Augustus" by his own subjects, all of whom were sternly and by force of justice compelled to retake their legitimate wives, and cast away the adulterous concubines they had married.
After thanking me for the good and sincere affection shewn towards his master, and likewise for the confidence and familiarity with which I had treated him, having also applauded my motives in thus speaking to him, Cromwell said to me, that with regard to the sentence lately pronounced at Rome, and which seemed to be the principal ground for my peroration, there was nothing to be said, inasmuch as the King, strengthened by the counsel and opinion of several eminent doctors of this realm, as well as by that of the University of Orleans, considered the said Papal sentence to be altogether iniquitous and invalid, and, therefore, that not only the King himself but all those who were of his opinion hoped that it would be ere long revoked and annulled, perhaps too reversed and given entirely in his favour.
Respecting the other point: namely, the sending of an embassy to this country, or giving me commission to urge and demand the measures I advocated, he (Cromwell) owned that in his opinion it would be a most convenient step and one likely to bear good fruit, as it might tend to calm and mitigate the sorrows, scruples, and doubts of the whole of Christendom on this delicate matter, provided the commission entrusted to the said personages or to myself had for its sole object to treat, conclude, and determine the divorce suit, or at least take such steps as to insure in future the mode of life of the parties, so as to avoid the scandal and inconveniences that might arise therefrom. (fn. n17) "But if the commission entrusted to the said ambassadors or to yourself (added Cromwell with a certain emphasis) refers only to the article just proposed by you, I do not hesitate to say that no good can be expected from it, inasmuch as events are too fresh and the King's love far too passionate and strong."
In this way, and passing from one thing to another, Cromwell distinctly told me that should Your Majesty declare war against this kingdom it would be a very easy thing to destroy them (the English); but Your Majesty (he said) could not be greatly benefitted by it, besides which it could hardly be expected that, having at other times received help and pleasure from this kingdom, Your Majesty would now willingly work for or consent to its ruin.
I told Cromwell, by way of a reply, that the King could not so calumniate the Pope as to pretend that the sentence, as well as other previous measures, had been pronounced entirely out of fear of Your Majesty. With regard to the opinion of doctors and canonists, I said that I wondered much how a man of his talent and experience could attach any faith to them, knowing, as he ought to know, how they had been obtained. I wondered still more (said I) at his thinking Your Majesty capable, after the declaration of justice and truth just made by His Holiness, of acting in prejudice of a sentence so canonically and so solemnly pronounced. "The Emperor (said I) would not do such a thing for all the wealth in the world, for he knows full well that his honour and conscience would revolt against it. What I have just proposed to you springs entirely from myself out of a wish for the preservation of the friendship between the Emperor, my master, and the king of England. I consider that I have done my duty as an honest and well-wishing man; if my advice has not been listened to it is no fault of mine. In future I will not trouble myself with such matters; it will be for you and those who have the management of affairs in this country to look to, and ponder the result that the Bong's obstinacy may produce."
Cromwell owned to me that I was right; he also would do his duty, and seize any opportunity offering itself to put matters straight (redresser les affaires), but this (he said) was an arduous case, and one that could not be conducted except with great prudence and foresight.
After this he begged me to lend him the historical books wherein the cases mentioned by me of the three French kings, (fn. n18) who had been compelled by force of law to abandon their adulterous wives, were related. This I did yesterday morning, and he (Cromwell) sent me word by the secretary who took the books to him, that he would feel greatly obliged if I would write to Madame, the queen of Hungary, begging that certain rhymes lately published in Flanders to the King's great discredit should be suppressed, and orders issued that none of the same sort should be printed in future. Cromwell did not specify in his message what the title of the said book of rhymes was or the nature of their contents, or who the person or persons were alluded to in them, but said that he would shortly call and tell me himself. If he does I shall not fail to apprize Your Majesty thereof.
I hear that the King has sent in all haste to solicit the most eminent lawyer at Bologna, named Priuidello, (fn. n19) to go to Nice and dispute the divorce case before the assembly there conjointly with the bishop of Winchester, who, I hear, carries a bag full of deeds and consultations, besides four lists (plans) of promises and as many of threats, so much so that people here entertain hopes of gaining the Pope to their side. The French ambassador said the other day to the Venetian: "Some time ago these people (meaning the English ambassadors) did nothing but reproach us continually with the intelligences, which they said our master, the King, had with the Pope, and the meeting prepared, as it were, almost to their face (demy a leur barbe); but nowadays they are very much changed, and begin to shew pleasure at what formerly caused them annoyance"
The duke of Norfolk said to me some days ago that when there had been a question in France of writing a letter to Your Majesty concerning the execution [at Milan] of captain Merveilles (Maraviglia), he (the Duke) had been summoned to the Privy Council of the Most Christian King, and had been then and there consulted about the terms of the said letter, and that both the Most Christian King and his son, the Dauphin of France, had spoken to him very passionately of an outrage which in their opinion required immediate satisfaction. The Duke added that happening during the discussion that ensued to call the duke Francesco Sforza by his title, the Dauphin suddenly interrupted him, and said: "Why do you call him duke? there is no duke of Milan but me;" upon which he (Norfolk) corrected himself at once, as he knew he should thereby give pleasure to the King and to his son. By which words Your Majesty will be able to judge better than I can what was the Duke's intention when he related this anecdote to me.
There has been no change since my last in the treatment of the Queen and Princess, nor has there been any change either in Scottish affairs; (fn. n20) but, on the other hand, I see no appearance or symptom of these people preparing to yield to the Papal censures, unless His Holiness' objurgations are accompanied by such remedy as the one I pointed out the other day to the High Chancellor (Cromwell); for as that excellent and holy man, the bishop) of Rochester, told me some time ago, the Pope's weapons become very malleable when directed against the obdurate and pertinacious, and, therefore, it is incumbent upon Your Majesty to interfere in this affair, and undertake a work which must be as pleasing in the eyes of God as war upon the Turk. Indeed, should there be a question of coming to a rupture [with England] it would not be amiss for Your Majesty to try by all possible means to have at your court, or elsewhere under your power, the son of the Princess' governess [Margaret], the daughter of the duke of Clarence [George], upon whom, in the opinion of many people here, the succession to the Grown would by right devolve. Owing to the said Duke's great and singular virtues, her son (fn. n21) is now studying at the Paduan University, to which circumstance may be added that being closely related to this king, both on the fathers and mother's side, he and his brothers might easily lay claim to the succession to the kingdom. For this reason the Queen wishes for a marriage in that quarter as much, or perhaps more than in any other, and the Princess herself; far from refusing it, would, I have no doubt, gladly give her consent. (fn. n22) The youth and his brothers have many relatives and allies [among the nobility] besides a very numerous party whose affections Your Majesty might by such means easily gain, and thus secure those of the rest of this nation.
Your Majesty will be pleased to consider the above, and take in good part this my advice, which, though it may appear at first sight rash and inconsiderate, proceeds nevertheless from my best wishes for Your Majesty's prosperity.
Among the allies of the said personage is Monsieur de Burgain (Sir Thomas Burgoyne), one of the most powerful and wise lords in all England, who is discontented with the King, owing to his having been once long kept a prisoner [in the Tower] with the duke of Boquinghen (Buckingham), his father-in-law, who there lost his life, whilst he (Burgoyne) lost only his feathers, that is to say, the best part of his fortune. To recover this, and at the same time to revenge the injuries received, he is ready to do anything (fn. n23) He had occasion, when I was lately at Court, to speak to me about his own affairs, saying that he would have wished to have a long talk with me on certain matters, but that, he said, was impossible, as he was suspected and watched. He assured me that no gentleman in England was better disposed than he was to serve Your Majesty, and that perhaps you would perceive it some day or other. He would have gone on explaining his views, only that as Cromwell, who, as I have said above, enjoys this King's confidence, was just before us with his ears wide open, he dared not say more then. (fn. n24)
The extreme care this above-mentioned English gentleman seemed to take of not declaring his intentions where he could be overheard convinced me of his great desire to be useful to Your Majesty, and employed in your service, for all the time he was talking to me about indifferent things he kept gently pressing my arm as he was walking along with me. I fancied at first that he had been summoned to Court on some business of importance, but I have since heard that he had been sent for on a mere trifle, a message to be conveyed to the duchess of Norfolk, his own wife's sister, that he might arrange matters between her and her husband, the Duke, whom she would not see or listen to on account of his being in love with a maid of honour (demoiselle) to the Royal concubine (Anne Boleyn) known by the name of Holland. For this reason the duke of Norfolk, since his return from France, dared not go and see his duchess until after Burgoyne's mission, who, as above stated, went thither, and promised that the Duke would in future lead a conjugal life with her. (fn. n25)
These are things hardly worth Your Majesty's attention, and yet as they may serve to illustrate my view of English affairs I have not hesitated to record them here.—London, 27th September 1533.
Signed: "Eustace Chapuys.'
French. Holograph. pp. 7.
28 Sept. 1131. Count de Cifuentes to the Emperor.
S. E Roma L. 860,
f. 78.
B. M. Add 28,586,
f. 16.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Yesterday there was a consistory, and it was discussed whether the term for the declaration of the ecclesiastical censures incurred by the king of England should be prorogued for one month more or not at all. His Holiness himself made the motion explaining how he had granted the term of one month, that the King might in the meantime confess the error of his ways, and also because at this interview with the king of France he counted upon his suggesting, according to his offer, some means of getting out of the difficulty. There had been no time before the expiration of the month to bring about the said conferences, and therefore he (the Pope) moved that another month should be granted, during which he promised to see the King and work at that affair.
I intend to call to-morrow on His Holiness and complain loudly of such conduct.
I hear that the king of England has taken away from Campeggio all the revenues he had in England. Since this loss has been sustained out of his love for justice and his attachment to Your Majesty, I should strongly recommend that some compensation be given to him elsewhere, because in reality he has nothing else left to maintain his rank.
According to His Holiness the duke of Norfolk will not be present at the interview. In his place the bishop of Winchester (Gardyner) who is already at the court of France, will attend on behalf of king Henry. Anna Bolain (Anne Boleyn) has been confined of a daughter called Isabella (Elizabeth), who immediately after the baptism was proclaimed princess of England.
I lately wrote to Your Majesty to announce the departure of Uvaldino, whom His Holiness was sending to announce his own departure from Rome, and other matters; but in consequence of the said Uvaldino having been taken ill on the road, and obliged to remain in Florence, His Holiness the day before yesterday dispatched the bishop of Liege (Cornelius van Berghen) to the same effect.
Talking the other day about the interview, and where it would take place, as everyone says here that Marseilles is the city designated, and on my representing to His Holiness that it was an undignified thing for him personally, and for the authority of the Holy See, &c., to go so far into France, he replied to me that his intention had always been, supposing the inter view could not take place at Nize, that it should be between that town and Marseilles. My impression, however, is that this last port will be the place selected, and that the embarkation will take place as soon as the fine weather sets in; hitherto the winds have been contrary, and the sea so boisterous that the galleys of France have not been able to come from La Spezia to Levorna (Leghorn). As the road took me close to Lucca I failed not to visit the place and see how the Signory was getting on. They complained to me that the "fuorusciti" from their city found shelter in Florence, and annoyed them considerably, and they begged me to speak to the Pope and to the duke Alessandro about it, which I have done, both having promised that they will try to stop the nuisance.
Juan Luys de Aragonia has come at last. I have written at length about this lawyer, and how he had at my recommendation persistently refused to come, on the plea that if the Queen's cause was again to be disputed he could not, as Your Majesty's advocate, attend the Papal summons, though he was in his pay. I again spoke to His Holiness on the subject, and begged him not to send for Aragonia, but the answer was that it was not for the disputing of the matrimonial cause—which he (the Pope) would never allow — but for other purposes that the auditor was needed. The Pope having said this much I could not very well insist; the auditor, therefore, received orders to come, and he has actually joined us.—Pisa, 28th September 1533.
Signed: "Conde Cifuentes."
Addressed: "To His Sacred Majesty, the Emperor."
Indorsed: "To His Majesty. From Count de Cifuentes, 28th September. Answered at Monçon, the 24th October 1533."
Spanish. Original. pp. 5.


  • n1. "Que el embajador que ay reside por aquel Rey dió un scripto para comunicarlo con Su Santd como V. Mt me lo mandava. Su Santd lo sentió mucho, y estuvo con enojo en ver lo que desian aquellos escriptos; y doz o tres vezes me dijo que quisiera que V. Mt mandara que se guardara secreto porque el oviera querido stampar aquello y ponerlo por las calles de Roma afin que todo el mundo conosciese la buena intencion del Rey de Inglaterra, y como declina mas á Lutherano que a Cristiano, porque paresce que derechamente viene todo en derreputacion (sic) de Su Santd y daño de la Sede Apostolica y las promesas que dize en el dicho scripto que hizo Su Sanetidad que no eran assi en lo del breve, ni en la carta decretal: que ellos lo dizen y entienden de una manera y está en scripto de otra, y que todo eran cavillaciones y cosas para quererse abonar con Vrâ Magd."
  • n2. The name of this auditor, who has often been mentioned in these pages, appears under different forms, Aragon, Aragona, and Aragonia. His ancestors were most likely originally from that kingdom.
  • n3. "Por que no pude partir con él a causa de hazer cambios y recambios."
  • n4. "Y despues de hauerme dicho Su Sd. lo de arriba y que pensava por lo que me havia embiado á dezir el Capuano que está con Su Sd. le ha cargado tanto la gota que [le] ha sido forçoso quedarse."
  • n5. "Estas cartas que á Su Magd. embio de su Nuncio y principes de Alemania; le hablé algo equivocadamente y me sali dél [de ello?] lo mejor que pude."
  • n6. "Lo qual hize por sanear esta platica que sentia que andava, y paresciole tambien al de Monte que quedó satisfecho."
  • n7. Don Garcia de Toledo, whose arrival at Rome has already been mentioned, p. 501.
  • n8. The Emperor was at this time holding Cortes at Monçon, on the borders of catalonia.
  • n9. Sanlorenzo, in the suburbs of Rome.
  • n10. "Je fus aux champs trouver Cremuel questoit a la voulerie."
  • n11. "Ce que je luy affirmaye estre chose facile a fere attendue la prudence, vertu et bonnairetc (honnestete ?) du dit seigneur roy, pourveu que luy et autres du conseyl voulsissent a ce conspirer, et quil estoit plus ayse de remedier maintenant quil neust ete dy obvier avant les choses faictes."
  • n12. "Tres haultain de ceur, yl eust tenue a blasme et desauctorization de son sçavoer et pouvoer de non mectre a effect et execution ce quil avoit entrepris."
  • n13. "Et lintollerable (?) patience de la royne" says the original, but it must be a mistake for "tolerable patience."
  • n14. "Et de ce augmentoit la credulité et espoer le dit commung quest que les angloix apres les choses fayetes recognoissent mieulx leur errour que nulle autre nation."
  • n15. "Mays que pour ce quil pourroit estre quil emprendroit (?) au roy comme a pluseurs mauvaix religieux que non point pour devotion mays de pure honte nossent habandonner lhabit, et que pour quelque poinct ou scrupule dhonneur ou de soupçon de legierete quil se rendist plus difficile a la dicte reconciliation," &c.
  • n16. Lothaire, emperor, son of Louis de Debonnaire, who having repudiated his wife, Teutberge, in 862 to marry his mistress, Valdrade, was compelled by pope Nicholas I. to retake the former.
  • n17. "Porveu que la charge des dictz personnages ou ma commission fust pour traytter, conclure et determiner laffere de ce diuorce, ou au moins de prendre quelque arrest et asseurance en la façon de vivre çy apres affin desviter les exclaindres et inconvenients que pourroint soudre."
  • n18. See above, p. 805. Besides Lothaire, "l'empereur d'Occident," as he is called by French writers, there were Philip I. (1060-1108) and Philippe Auguste (1180-1223), both kings of France of the Carlovingian race or dynasty, who after repudiating their wives, married their concubines. The former, who in 1092 was excommunicated by pope Urban II., after divorcing his wife, Berthe, married Bertrade, already married to the count of Anjou. The latter was likewise excommunicated in 1196 for having repudiated Ingelburge and married Agnès de Mèranie. Both were compelled by the Holy See to retake their legitimate wives.
  • n19. Girolamo, a canonist and law professor, who became in time auditor of the Apostolic Chamber.
  • n20. "Ne aussy ay peu apperceyvoer quil y aye aucung espoer ne apparence de hobeyr aux censurez du pape [qui ne les accompagnera des remedes dont cy devant ay escript] et comme le ma envoye signiffier le bon et sainet euesque de Rochestre, le quel dit que les armes du pape pour ceulx-cy que sont obstinez sont plus fresles que du plomb, et que convient que vostre majeste y mecte la main, et que en ce elle fera oeuvre tant agreable a Dieu que daller contre le turq." I have purposedly transcribed the passage as it reads in the original, because I am not sure that the underlined sentences express Chapuys' idea. If instead of "qui ne les accompagnera," the reading were "que ne les accompagne," it is clear that the sense is different and ought to be interpreted as I have done.
  • n21. Reginald Pole, son of Sir Richard, and of Margaret of York, countess of Salisbury.
  • n22. "Que votre maieste tint tous moyens possibles de retirer deuers soy, ou ailleurs en son pouvoir, le filz de la gouvernante de la princesse, fille du duc de Clarence, a la quelle selon loppinion de pluseurs appartiendroit ce royaulme. Le dict filz est maintenant a Padua, a lestude, pour la grande et singuliere vertu du duc, joinct quil est du parentage du roy du couste de pere et de mere. Et pour la pretension que luy et ses freres pourroint avoir au royaulme, la royne desireroit austant colloquer la princesse sa fille par marriage [la] que autre [part] quelle sache, a quoy la dicte princesse ne feroit reffuz, ains sen tiendroit plus contente."
  • n23. "Entre les autres alliez du dict personnage est monsieur de burgain, quest lung des puissans et le plus sage et cault seigneurs dangleterre, que se tienne malcontent du roy; le quel le fist longuement detenir en prison avec le due de boquinghen son beaulpere, le quel y laissa la personne et ces luy-cy (celuiçi) les plumes assavoir une bonne partie de son revenu, quil desireroit bien recouvrer par quelque moyen que ce fust, et soy vanger aucunement."
  • n24. "Et pour ce que le roy poursuivoit tout de grey de cremuel, qui nous precedoit, et nous alloit tenant les oreilles, ny eust ordre de plus long propos ne practiques."
  • n25. "Mais ce nestoit que pour une folie [assavoir pour lenvoyer vers la ducesse de Norphoc quest seur de sa femme, pour fere la poinctement entre elle et le duc son mary, le quel elle ne vouloit veoer ne ouyr a cause quil est amoureux dune demoiselle de la concubine du roy, qui sappelle Hollande; a ceste cause depuis son retour de France nestoit ose aller veoer la dicte ducesse jusques apres lambassade du dict seigneur de burgain que [est] alle tout a poinct, en promettant que le dict duc seroit desormais son mary.]"