House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 30 April 1607 (2nd scribe)

Jovis, 30o die Aprilis, 1607

Annoot's Nat.

1. Reading: - B. For the Naturalizing of Thomas Annoot.

Mariners.

1. Reading: - B. To reform the unfaithful and teacherous Dealing of Mariners and Sailors.

Curriers.

2. Reading: - B. For Relief of poor Curriers near the City of London, and the Liberties thereof, and not free of the Company of Curriers of the City of London : - Mr. Lieutenant of the Tower, Sir John Savill, Sir Geo. Moore, Sir Henry Poole, Sir Rob. Johnson, Sir Tho. Knevett, Mr. Forcett, Mr. Fuller, Knights and Burgesses of London, Southwark, and Westminster, Mr. Pembridge, Mr. Durdent, Sir Nich. Saunders, Sir Antho. Cope, Sir Wm. Liggon, Sir Gam. Capell, Mr. Barwick, Sir Jerome Horsey, Mr. Askwith, Sir Barnard Whytston, Sir Rob. Wingfield, Mr. Lawr. Hyde: - Monday, Temple.

Selbey's Estate.

2. Reading: - The Bill to assure and confirm the Sale of the Manor of Moate and other Lands, in the County of Kent, made by Charles Allen Esquire, deceased, to Sir Wm. Selby Knight, &c. - Knights and Burgesses of Kent, the Barons of the Cinque Ports, Sir John Boys, Mr. Hadds, Mr. Fuller, Mr. Brook, Sir Rob. Johnson, Mr. Wymark, Mr. Lieutenant of the Tower, Sir Henry Poole, Sir Wm. Twysden, Sir Gam. Capell, Mr. Irby, Mr. Oldsworth, Mr. Holt, Sir Jerome Horsey, Sir Fr. Barrington, Sir Wm. Liggon: - Tuesday, Temple.

Marshalsea Court.

Sir Rob. Wingfield reporteth. -

Met Tuesday, 28o Apr. 1607. -

Praesentibus, 32 against six; 11 Lawyers. - In the Committee of the Marshalsea. -

For Matter of Law, in the Jurisdiction, shall stand as it hath been. - Desire the Reformation of Abuses; for which they agreed to draw a Bill by Lawyers; which is drawn. -

18 met afore Easter: Then agreed, that the Jurisdiction of the Court should stand in Part. Then not reported; and the Counsel heard in the House, before Report against Order.

Sir Antho. Cope moveth, that, since Committees met before Easter (10 against 18) no Report; therefore not now to accept of this Report, but to proceed with the Bill.

Much Dispute; first, touching the Jurisdiction; then touching the Order.

Argued, when, upon the Hearing of the Counsel, it was re-committed, and all Lawyers of the House added, then all former Proceedings waved, and this Commitment, and Proceeding, good; and that a new Bill.

Counsel - Marshalsea. - Saturday.

Committees.

Mr. Fuller, for the Committees of Initiates.

Watermen: - To-morrow.

Cavendish: - Monday, Temple.

Hereford.

Hereford: - Passed.

Union with Scotland.

Mr. Brook: - We shall want great Strength, if we be not able to draw the Sinews of War together, and join altogether. - He liketh that Plot, the perfect Union, well, if it had been in the Beginning; but now unseasonable. -

As the Scotts stand now with us in Commerce, we must needs to something; for we do with them, in loving, as Apes with their young ones. -

Compares Justice Walmysly to Paphuntius, that turned all the Nycene Council. - He feared, he could not. -

If Reasons of post-nati were set down in the Clerk's Book, not Countervail the Judges Opinion; do us no Good. -

No Reasons to the King: We should have a Negative : We are so told before-hand by his Counsel. - Moveth a. Conference, or Bills.

4 Objections Answered.

Mr. Holt: - The general Project of Union no Annihilation of the former: A very fruitful Labour. -

Disgrace; - None: But an instrumental, deliberative, Power,

Contrariety: - None - Preserve fundamental Laws in the one, and the other, or else no -

Dissent from the King: - None. The King would have Expedition. The Way of Expedition the Way of Perfection. -

To embrace a preparation of the Project for a general Union.

Mr. Wentworth: - That we might go on with Particulars.

Mr. Carleton: - Pleasure and Benefit little. - What we might avoid: Not marvel at Variance. -

Princes not easily digest Reply and Answer. Let them have their Words, and then we better Progress in our Business. -

That he, for his Part, wished it not, that a perfect Union. -

The Argument of transplanting, of supplanting, Migration of the Northern Parts; all against the Perfect. -

If we should proceed with a perfect Union, we must, in the End, have Recourse to the Perfect, because of Exclusions. -

No one Union since Kingdom regular. - Lituania, and Poland; Spayne, and Portugal; France, and Brittaine; France and Scotland. Restrictions in these our Guide. -

The Lords have a greater Interest in this, as we: They -

Mr. Hyde: - Hoc facias, et alterum non omittas. -

He, that the perfect Union might sooner be Proceeded in; may be easilier compassed. -

No Disgrace to the Commissioners. -

A perfect Union: And this might be granted, so as the perfect Union might be limited to a Time; or else that Grant of so much void.

Mr. Yelverton: The Preamble of the Commission a perfect Union. The Power of the Commissioners, to treat for the Weal of both Kingdoms: Not tied to the fundamental Laws. No Disgrace to the Commissioners. -

A great Donative to them, to repeal hostile Laws. -

Not Starting of a new Hare: For the Hounds have taken a wrong Scent: Let them break off the Game.

Scotts first born, we best born. -

Give them Apparel now, and strip them hereafter, being limited to a Time, - an incurable Enmity. -

Their Law a greater Liberty, less Plenty. -

Every Scott purchase here, to be bound to reside here; else their Persons not subject. -

Restrain them in any, then, as Adam, never satisfied, till they be loose. -

Incapacity may be dispensed, as to the King, but not between Subject and Subject. -

If you determine the Act, upon the Condition broken, who shall plead the

Condition ? -

Petitions of Right denied by the Kings. Perhaps you be restrained from Sight of the Patent.

Stat lege corona. -

If it be this Danger in vaga quaestione, much more in Bills, when they come to the Eye. - He wished the Lords would frame Bills: That we should proceed to a Bill for hostile Laws.

Sir Edw. Grevill: - The hostile Laws die of themselves; No Donative, because some Good to us. Our Cost taken away, though they had the worse.

Mr. Solicitor offering to speak, the Time being past, it was thought fit to delay it till To-morrow.