House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 14 May 1614

Sabbati, 14o Maii

Navy.

L.1. AN Act to repeal One Branch of a Statute (intituled. An Act touching certain politique Constitutions, made for Maintenance of the Navy) made in the Parliament holden at Westminster, the 12th Day of February, in the Fifth Year of our late sovereign Lady Queen Elizabeth, cap. quinto.

Timber.

L. 1. An Act for Increase of Timber in future Times. -

Rejected, upon the Question.

Court of Wards.

L. 2. An Act against Continuances of Liveries, and of bringing in of Evidences into the Court of Wards; and for returning of the Counterpanes of Offices and Inquisitions into the said Court. -

Mr. Brooke: - That the last Part a spurious Part, and surreptitious Part; because taketh from another Court, viz. the Petty Bag, the true and ancient Fees. -

Not comparable to Sampson ; to pull down the House, and die with them; but as one like to drown, that will catch his Fellow, and drown him with him. -

Inimicas homo seminizavit zizaniam. -

That the End of this, to draw the Fees of the Copying from the Petty Bag to the Court of Wards. Filia

devoravit matrem: For the Court of Wards drawn first out of the Chancery.

Mr. Hoskyns: - That no such Title read by my Lord Chancellor, -

This Corvan, to take from the Priest to give to the Pharisee, -

That the Petty Bag maketh all the Summons, and other Proceedings, for Parliament. - All the Subpoenas special, Diem clausit extremum, &c. taken already from them. Now this must be taken from them; and yet they must be returned thither, and they have nothing for it. No Charity to add this to the Clerk of the Wards. -

Danger to the Subject, to take away the former Provision of retaining one. -

A Clerk's Clerk's Clerk Escheator; and hath attended, and pulled off the Feodary's Boots. -

That his Majesty would not, if he knew it, rob Peter, and pay Paule.

Mr. Fuller, - against Denial of a Traverse, without Licence of that Court. - Moveth, the Subject may be restored to his true Right.

Mr. Hitchcocke: - That fit the Wards, after their full Age, to have Privilege. -

That the Abuse of the Court of Wards great. - Hath known the Clerk of the Wards sit there in a rug Gown ; now Twenty Clerks: and where Clerks increase, the Grievance of the Subject groweth.

Mr. Wentworth: - Where divers Heirs Females, every one of them, as this Bill now drawn, will cause a several Livery; so that will burthen the Subject, and Profit only to the Officers. -

In some Cases the bringing in of Evidences necessary; as, where -

That the Master of the Rolls, who hath the Gift of the Offices of the Petty Bag, hath deserved well of the Commonwealth, in not referring Matters to the Masters of the Chancery.

Mr. Ashley: - That he that hath Privilege in the Court

. . Wards shall dearly pay for it. That the King's Graces marred in the Carriage; so as we have little Fruit of them, by mincing and curtailing of them. - Moveth, the last Part may be, by the Committee, striken out.

Mr. Bawtry: That this Counterpart not a sufficient Record to ground any Evidence upon.

Mr. Alford moveth, to add to the Bill, - 20 l. Fees, by a Feodary, taken of a mean Man. - That therefore he may be tied to certain Fees. -

Committed to all the Lawyers of the House, all Knights of Shires, Sir Ro. Phillippes, Mr. Alford, Sir Myles Fletewood, Sir Francis Popham, Sir W. Heale, Sir Ed. Hobby, Mr. Connisby, Sir Wm. Brereton, Mr. Askue, Sir Jerome Horsey, Sir Francis Barnam, Sir Edw. Sands, Sir Wm. Browne, Mr. Prowse, Sir Tho. Smyth, Mr. Tho. Fanshaw, Sir Tho. Grymes, Sir Jo. Hollys, Sir Ed. Barrett, Sir Francis Leighe, Mr. Davys, Sir Wm. Cavendish, Sir Wm. Strowde: - Middle Temple Hall, Wednesday next; and Counsel to be heard.

Durham Franchise.

Sir Edw. Sands reporteth from the Committee of Franchise. Petitions, the Matter for Knights and Burgesses of Durham. -

That that County now standeth in a worse Plight than any other Part of the Kingdom; and that That much toucheth the Kingdom. That every Man hath a Propriety in his Goods, which will not suffer that to be transferred to another without his own Consent; and not to be governed by Laws whereunto they no Parties. That Wales, whiles not subject to Subsidies, &c. no Knights, after, had. 3ly, That the Bishop there hath Jura regalia; so hath great Power to oppress. The Bishop now cleared from this : yet to provide for Posterity. -

On the other Side, alleged that no Cause now to innovate, because they are well; therefore to change is to be worse. 2. That not desired; therefore not to be thrust upon them, against their Wills. 3. That a Matter of Charge, being much impoverished by the Rebellion, 11o Eliz. That, at the first Committee, the 1. over-weighed the latter; and thereupon ordered a Bill to be drawn, and a Petition to be drawn to his Majesty: This done accordingly. That, at the last Committee, alleged, my Lord could prove that all the principal Men, noble Gentlemen, and Grand Jury, were against it. - Moved, this would disgrace the Bishop; and that the Bishop, before further Proceedings, might be heard, with his Counsel, at the Bar, or at the Committee.

Sir H. Anderson: - That this moved the last Parliament, when they pressed to grant Subsidies. The Motion then thought reasonable. That all the Country groaneth under the Burthen of the Government there. That he charged by some great Ones, to have been the only Occasion of this Innovation. That my Lord sent down special Messages. That his Officers bestirred themselves, as if his jura regalia had been in question. That found there a great Canvas against this. Great Labour to get Men from their former Resolutions. - Will shew hereafter how the Certificates gotten : Will encounter them with a Certificate, of as much Credit as the other. -

To sit in Rome, and strive with the Pope. - To strive with the Bishop in Durham. -

That my Lord sitteth Judge, where the King doth not so. The Records locked up, so as not to be seen, where special Use of them. -

A Man imprisoned, without Bail, for a very small Offence. -

One, speaking against a penal Law, checked; because that against the Bishop's Profit, who hath all the Advantage of Penalties and Forfeitures. -

Hath known, for Fines, Post-fines, and Alienations, more paid there than in any other Part of England: A full Third Part taken. - Not secured of their Lives. - He Judge, where hath all Forfeitures: - The Sheriff his own : - The Jurors his Freeholders: - Attached, presently indicted; next Day executed. These Two but Beast Thieves. - Moveth, this Certificate may be brought into this House; and hopeth he will satisfy this House, of many undue Circumstances, whereby this procured. For the Poverty of the Country, wherewith they feare the poor Freeholders of Eight Shillings a Day for the Knights Wages; thinketh no Man so basely minded, as chosen, would require it. - Recusants many, so no Number sufficient. - Wisheth that were better looked to. - That the Finders of it the Causes of it. That his having the Penalty of the Recusants (never meant by this House) a principal Cause of it.

Mr. Ashley: - That at the first he spake of it by Accident. That my Lord, understanding it, sent for him; desired him to make known to the House, that the Country desired it not.

Mr. Speaker - That no Ground for this Discourse, till the Bill read.

Stranger coming into the House committed.

One apprehended within the Entry of the House not of the House, brought to the Bar, and questioned by Mr. Speaker.

Answereth, that his Name Bukeley, of Hampshyre, Clerk to Mr. Anth. Doily. That he came in only to see. Confesseth, he told the Serjeant, he was a Burgess. That he will take the Oath of Allegiance and Supremacy. That he received the Communion at Easter, at Winchester. - Sequestered.

Mr. Hide: - That he knoweth the Man. Thinketh it mere Ignorance.

Mr. Duncombe moveth, he may be committed to the Serjeant; and that an Order, no Man may stand in the Entry.

Mr. Alford: - 1581. -

Against sending to the Tower, for pay 10l. Fees.

Sir Tho. Hobby: - To have him further punished.

Sir Je. Horsey: - To have him further examined, and to pay Mr. Serjeant's Fees.

Sir Rich. Tichborne: - Knoweth him simple.

Sir Jo. Savyle: - Never heard any Man, in this Case, dismissed without Censure.

Ordered, upon the Question, He shall be committed to the Serjeant, during the Pleasure of the House.

He brought again to the Bar; where kneeling, Mr. Speaker pronounced his Judgment.

Privilege-Undertaking for Parliament.

Sir Roger Owen maketh Report for the Undertaking.

That they have done him no Harm : That they have yet done no Harm, but Good: Yet done Injury, though not Damage. - His Memory like a Pidgeon House: If One fly in another flieth out.

Sir H. Croftes: - That divers taxed, as Stars of the last Parliament, now Jelly. - That hereby an implicit concluding, that there are still Undertakers.

The Paper read.

Sir H. Nevill avoweth the Paper: Giveth the Reason: That his Majesty, in July was two Year, at Windsor, where his Charge lieth, called him to him to know his Opinion in Parliament. The One not pertinent to this :

The other, whether he might trust to the Love of his People, for Relief. -

Shewed him the Reasons why divers dissuaded a Parliament. -

That he answered, he trembled to think that any should thus breed a Dislike between his People and him.

That he then answered his Majesty; and whilst fresh in Memory, set them down; which will justify them upon his Oath. -

That he told him, that divers of those Gentlemen he then. -

That he thought -

That then no House. That most of these Things contained in the Memorials the last Parliament. - That he called, and commanded. - That he never undertook to include all in this Paper: That divers of them of little Value to the King; of much Value to the People. Mr. Crew:- - That this Question first well moved, now well removed. That we have fished long, and catched nothing. - Moveth to leave this, and prepare ourselves for the Conference with the Lords; and go on with Things for the Good of King and Commonwealth.

Sir Rich. Weston: - Cum duo faciunt idem, non est idem. - That he cometh hither for none, but for publick Ends. That the Business may be severed from the Person of Sir H. Nevill. - Misliketh the Proceedings. - That a House of Parliament not to suffer their Counsels to be led by any private Man. - Moveth an Entry of a Precedent, that no Papers shall be spread of Parliament Matters [a].

Cambridge Election.

Mr. Serjeant Harrys: - That the Sheriff now questioned, and of Perjury, by his false Return; for sworn to execute and return his Processes, and Writs, duly. -

The Sheriff of Huntengdonshyre, not of Cambridge. - Letters from Sir Jo. Cotton and Sir Jo. Cage, to the Sheriff, none from the other Two. -

Upon Exception that there were Copyholders, a Proclamation made by the Sheriff, that all Copyholders, and all others, not Freeholders, should avoid. That Sir Jo. Cutts and Sir Tho. Chicheley required, the Night before, at all the Inns, that all Copyholders, &c. should depart home. -

That, upon the Election, at the least more for the now Knights, by 500 at least. - Moved no calling by the Poll till Two Hours after that the Freeholders of Sir Jo. Cutts, and Sir Tho. Chicheley's, were many of them gone. That Sir Jo. Cage threatened to raise them in the Subsidy, and to put One of their Inns, if they would not give their Voice that Way.

Mr. Martyn: - That the Question now, not to punish the Sheriff; but, whether the Knights now elected, shall be admitted to serve of this House. That apparent Proofs against the Sheriff, both here, and at the Election in Huntingdonshyre. - That they will plainly prove a Practice with the Sheriff. - Proveth that, by the Letters to gather Copyholders and personable Men. - That these Courses, for Proclamation, &c. alleged by Mr. Serjeant Harrys, merely to colour their Purpose intended by their Letters.

Mr. Gerrard: - That he speaketh for the Freeholders, who have no Benefit by the Penalty of the Sheriff, of 100l.

That the Freeholders of Cambridgeshire have now none to serve in Parliament for them, and yet must be concluded by their Voices.

Mr. Richardson: - Matter in law, and Fact. - Wonders at Mr. Gerrard's Assertion, that Cambridgeshire hath now none for them. - For the Return, quaestio facti. The Return of the Sheriff credited here; for made Judge of the Election here, and no Averment against it: But yet agreeth, the Jurisdiction of this House, that they may examine it. -

Voucheth Mr. Serjeant Harrys his Case, and Mr. Barker. - That Mr. Barker stood, notwithstanding the Return of the Sheriff. -

Sir George Howard, and Sir Francis Lacon, accordant. -

Denieth the writing of the pretended Letter by Sir Jo. Cutts, and Sir Tho. Chicheley, or ever consented to by them; but confesseth it written by some that affected their Cause, but did what they could to cross it, sending to put away all Copyholders, &c. - That did by a Member of this House. -

That he desireth, for the most Number of Freeholders by 500, the Election may stand. -

That, after the Copyholders severed, Sir Jo. Cotton finding himself too weak, drew into his Company -

That this some, other Spirit, not Sir Jo. Cotton's. -

East Part, and West Part. - That, by Precedents, the West Part hath usually had both the Knights. - Thirty Towns, at least, more in the West Part; 400, or 500 Freeholders more there. - Had all the Isle of Ely; but only some drawn away by scandalous Practice; by Pretence, that if Sir Jo. Cutts, &c. were chosen, their Fens would be drained, and a third Part be given away to the Undertakers. That this noised in the Time, when the Election in Hand. -

The Scrutiny not required, till Two Hours after, that the Sheriff at Dinner.

Mr. Serjeant Harrys: - That the Reason of the Guide of the Two Cases, vouched by Mr. Richardson, because no Averment against the Sheriff's Return.- -

Averment against the Sheriff's Return, where I shall lose my Action, or my Lands. No returning against the Sheriff's Return of Non est inventus. The Reason, because then an Issue to be tried between the Sheriff and Party, where the Sheriff neither Plaintiff, nor Defendant.

Mr. Fuller - * Action del Case gist, el l'Jury poet trover versus l' returne del Vicount. -

Profe des Letters deliver per Sir Jo. Cutts' Servant. -

Memorandum le Copy del Letter deliver per Mr. Bingley, deny per Sir Jo. Cutts et Sir Tho. Chicheley.

Spectadillia of Mr. Gerrard.

Mr. Serjeant: - That Sir Jo. Peyton's Letter, upon his Protestation, shall be refuted by Oath.

Sir Edwyn Sands: - That the Matters objected against the Plaintiffs, not so well cleared by them, as the other by the Defendants in the Misdemeanors objected by the Defendants against them.

Sir Ro. Hitcham : - That the Sheriff not to be sent for, because the House satisfied, the Two Gentlemen chosen by the greater Number.

Sir Ro. Owen: - That 50 Ed. III. Knights, returned by the Sheriff, turned out, because not elected by the greater Number. So, for the like Cause, a Sheriff, in H. VI. Time, imprisoned, and fined; and the Knights, returned by him, put out. -

That in Serjeant Harrys his Case, and in the Case for Bridgenorth, the Sheriff's Return bindeth not the House.

[b] Whereas I Clement Cooke, Esquire, am returned a Burgess for Clytherow in Lancaster, and for Heydon in Yorkeshyre; I do make choice to serve for Clytherow.