House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 16 May 1614

Lunae, 16o Maii

Benefices.

L. 1. AN Act touching Benefices appropriate.

Actions, &c.

L. 1. An Act for Limitation of Actions, and avoiding of Suits.

Gilding, &c.

Mr. Brooke reporteth the Addition unto the Bill of Gilding and Silvering: And that Addition twice read, and ordered, upon the Question, to be ingrossed.

Jernegan's Decree.

Mr. Hoskyns reporteth Mr. Jernegan's, Bill, without any Amendment.

Virginia Company.

Mr. Brooke moveth, the Virginia Business may be Tomorrow, Seven of the Clock.

Mr. Hackwill moveth -

Ordnance.

Mr. Ashley, Mr. Brooke, Mr. Thomas, Mr. Wm. Jones, Sir H. Nevill, Sir W Heale, added to the Committee for Ordnance; and the Serjeant's Man to warn the Customers, for their Attendance, according to a former Order.

Monmouth Alms-house.

L. 2. An Act to confirm and enable the Erection and Establishment of an Alms-house, a free Grammar-school, and a Preacher, intended to be done and performed by the Master and Four Wardens of the Fraternity of the Art or Mistery of Haberdashers, within the City of London, at the only Costs and Charges of Wm. Jones, Merchant, a Member of the said Fraternity, and now resident at Hamboroughe, in the Parts beyond the Seas. -

Mr. Fuller: - To have a Restraint, not to make Leases for above 30 Years.

Sir Jo. Sammes: - Not to have them restrained.

Mr. James: - To have it provided for, that the Poor to be received into this Hospital, may be of Monmowthshyre; and this to be certified from the Mayor of Monmowth.

Sir Tho. Smyth: - Not to have any Alteration of that, Mr. Jones hath intended in this; for that it may divert his Purpose of giving more, which -

Committed to Sir Tho. Smyth, the Knights and Burgesses for London, Sir Roger Owen, Sir H. Croftes, Sir Jo. Brooke, the Knights and Burgesses of Wales and Monmowth, Mr. Cary, Sir Ro. Maunsfeild, Mr. Jones, Mr. Hackwill, Mr. Griffynn, Sir Jo. Trevor, Mr. Bateman, Sir Tho. Mawnsell, Mr. Christopher Brooke, Mr. Hoskyns, Mr. Tho. Trevor, Sir Jo. Sammes, Mr. Tho. Morgan, Mr. Wymarke: - Friday next, in the Court of Wards.

Jernegan.

Mr. Jernegan's Bill ordered to be ingrossed.

Earl of Dorsett's Hospital.

L. 2. An Act for the founding and establishing of an Hospital, &c. - Dorsett. -

Sir Geor. Moore: - To have this added, "not contrary or repugnant to the Laws of this Realm."

Mr. Fuller : - It may be, these Manors not of Value, or may be evicted; therefore to have a Provision, that if these not of Value, or should be evicted, then the 330 l. may go out of the Residue.

Mr. Amnerst agreeth to this, and moveth a Restraint of the Corporation from passing away their Rent.

Mr. Ware moveth, all the Members, &c. to be chosen by my Lord of Dorsett, and his Heirs; so as, if any Heir hereafter will not nominate, or shall escheat, by Attainder, or otherwise, then all will be nothing. Moveth an Addition for this.

Mr. Henden moveth, the Lessees, and Parties interessed, may attend the Committees, and be heard. -

Committed to the Knights and Burgesses of Sussex, Sir George Moore, Sir H. Poole, all those which have spoken in it, Sir A. Cope, Sir H. Nevill, Sir Wm. Brereton, Sir Edw. Hales, Mr. Alford, Sir Edw. Hobby, Sir Charles Caesar, Mr. Finch, Sir Jo. Scott, Mr. Nevill, Sir Jo. Savyle, Sir H. Cary, Sir Geor. Ryvers, Mr. Towse, Sir Myles Fleetwood: - Friday, in the Exchequer Chamber.

Impositions.

Sir Edw. Hobby moveth for a Message to the Lords, for the Impositions; to appoint the Party that shall make the Preface with the Message; and to have it this Day.

Mr. Hackwill: - That there may be much Question between the several Persons: And therefore moveth for a Conference between them, about the Extent of their Parts; that so nothing may be omitted, nor any Man put out of his Part. Moveth, every Man may set down the Heads of what he will speak; and that all they shall speak, may be agreed by all the Committees. Moveth, some more may be specially appointed to search. Hath heard, that from Ed. III. Time till Queen Mary, there be Records, to cross the Opinion of this House. Moveth, the King's learned Counsel may be sent for, to know whether they know of any such, or not; and that they may make their Protestation, what they know therein.

The Serjeant sent with his Mace for them : And questioned, whether any may speak, whilst the Mace is gone : And over-ruled, they may.

Bill from Lords.

The Lords send down by Dr. Bird and Dr. James, - bring from the Lords a Bill -

Impositions.

Mr. Hoskyns moveth, no Message, till a Conference, and till all the Committees have thought it fit. -

1. A Message : That to be by Mr. Secretary. The second Part to be done by Mr. Serjeant Mountague, upon the Question.

Sir Ro. Phillippes secondeth Mr. Hackwill's Motion for the Search, and for the. King's Counsel.

Ordered, A Conference between the Committee, on Wednesday in the Afternoon, at Lincolnes Inn.

The Records of 5 and 9 R. II. to be examined by .. Weare and Mr. Ashley ; and Copies of them, with the Officers Hand to be gotten to them.

Mr. Attorney generally questioned, what Records he hath seen.

- That he received, shortly after last Parliament, from Mr. Jones, which he took to have been given him; whereupon he hath made private Notes. - Wisheth those were transcribed. - The rest ready to re-deliver. - And, pressed, whether he have any other, or have seen any, affirmeth, not.

Mr. Alford moveth, a Consideration may be had, at the Committee for Privileges, when Mr. Speaker may speak, &c.

Sir Wm. Cope moveth, that a Message may be to the Lords, to pray they will confer, &c.

Sir D. Digges, contra: And moveth, that, if any Man be unsatisfied concerning the Impositions, he may now speak.

Mr. Amnerst: - That unsatisfied, by reason of the Book l Eliz. - Moveth, he may be satisfied by Mr. Finch.

Mr. Finch: - That at first unsatisfied, but at last satisfied, by Sight of the Records; which shew, my Lord Dyer deceived in Four Points:

1. That the Statute of 14 Ed. III. the first Statute which speaketh of Custom : Where a Statute (not printed) 3 Ed. I. which giveth Customs to the King.

2. That this abridgeth the Customs due before by Law; Which is not so.

And where he saith, no English Merchant paid Custom, but for Wooll, Wool-fells, and Leather, and that this was magna et antiqua custuma.

Mr. Thorpe moveth, that, if any Man can speak any thing for the King's Right of imposing without Parliament, they will do so.

Mr. Serjeant Mountague and Mr. Solicitor [a] : - That they have seen, nor knoweth, no Records but such as are known in this House.

Mr. Attorney: - That their putting this Part upon him an Argument of their good Opinion. Trust in his Person discharged the Suspicion of his Place. - For the Three Points, spoken of Matters in Fact; wisheth, that this tried true, e'er propounded; for erring in Matter of Fact more subject to Redargution, than Matter in Law. Moveth, whether an indefinite Grant of imposing imply not a Perpetuity, 2dly. Claims by Word, and by Fact: The latter the stronger. Words the Female, Acts the Male. The Number. - That they that speak, of the greater Number. -

Adviseth a Conference between the Sub committees, and a View then to be taken of the Records; and every one to be bounded to his Part; for hard for him that cometh before, not to speak something of that which cometh after: For that it blemisheth the Part of him that cometh after, when deflowered by him that precedeth.

Sir H. Croftes - That some have pretended, they have Records that will manifest, that the Opinion of this House, for the King's Right of imposing, erroneous; and that divers of those Things, we build upon, may, by true Inference, be turned upon us. - Moveth, that the Opinion of my Lord Dyer, 1 Eliz. vouched, is none of his; but rather a Quaere, or a private Note of his.

Mr. Hitchcocke: - That King John imposed upon Wine, 8d. a Ton, besides Prisage. -

39 Ed. III. fol. 13. -

That he took notice of the Barons Arguments, and of the Records they vouched; whereof some, as they vouched, other might be answered.

Mr. Bawtry sheweth he is not satisfied.

Mr. Hackwill moveth, they may shortly propound their Reasons To-morrow in the Forenoon, in the Nature of a Committee; and Answers, and Replies.

Mr. Hitchcocke desireth it may be on Wednesday: And granted.

Mr. Brooke - against their solemn arguing this. - Moveth, these Gentlemen may summarily deliver to the Sub-committee their Reasons, Book-cases, and Records ; and, if they shall be then satisfied, then no more Trouble needeth.

Mr. Guynn: - That he was unsatisfied, and yet is satisfied.

Mr. Jones: - That the Book, 39 E. III. alleged the last Parliament; but, if they have any Record to justify that Book, moveth, they may bring it to the Committee.

Ordered, That Mr. Hitchcocke, Mr. Bawtry, or any other, may object any thing; and when they have propounded One Argument, then the same to be answered; and so to proceed. The Time to be, Seven of the Clock, in the House. The same to be at a Committee of the whole House.

To meet here To-morrow, at Seven of the Clock.