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House of Commons Journal Volume 9: 14 May 1675

Pages 336-337

Journal of the House of Commons: Volume 9, 1667-1687. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1802.

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Veneris, 14 die Maii, 1675.

Prayers.

CHarletta Henrietta Maria Jamia Paston did this Day take the Oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy, in order to her Naturalization.

Dolman's Estate.

Ordered, That Sir John Trever and Sir John Pettus be added to the Committee, to which the Matter concerning Sir Thomas Dolman is committed.

Tayer's Estate.

Mr. Steward reports from the Committee to which the Bill for Sale of Part of the Estate of Robert Tayer, was committed, some Amendments, agreed by the Committee to be made to the Bill: Which he read, with the Coherence, in his Place; and afterwards delivered the same in at the Clerk's Table; where they were twice read; and, upon the Question, severally agreed to.

Resolved, &c. That the Bill, with the Amendments agreed to, be ingrossed.

Repairing Highways.

Sir Wm. Doyley reports from the Committee to which it was referred to inspect the former Acts, and to bring in a further Bill for the Repairing and Maintaining the Highways, a Bill agreed by the Committee: Which he delivered in at the Clerk's Table: And the same was read.

A Petition of the Inhabitants of several Parishes within the County of Middlesex was read.

Resolved, &c. That the Bill for Repairing and Maintaining the Highways, with the Petition before mentioned, be read a Second time.

Encouragement of Artificers.

A Bill for Encouragement of Arts, Crafts, and Mysteries, and manual Occupations, was read the First time.

Resolved, &c. That this Bill be read a Second time.

Newarke Charter.

A Petition of John Girton, Francis Cheetam, and others, complaining of undue Means and Practices, in obtaining a Charter for sending Two Burgesses to serve in Parliament for the Town of Newarke, was read.

Resolved, &c. That this Petition be referred to the Committee of Grievances, to examine the Matter of the Petition; and report the Case, with their Opinions therein, to the House.

Insolvent Debtors.

Ordered, That these Members following be added to the Committee, to which the Bill for Relief of poor Prisoners, is committed; viz. Sir John Barnaby, Lord Ancram, Sir Cirill Wich, Mr. Wright, Sir Edw. Mansell, Sir Fr. Clerke, Mr. Tho. Morris, Sir Rich. Braham, Sir Tho. Estcourt, Mr. Sawyer, Mr. Morgan, Sir Rich. Temple.

Privilege-Lords Proceedings in case of Sir J. Fagg.

Sir Thomas Lee reports from the Committee appointed to inspect the Journals of the House of Lords, and the Entries therein, in the Case between Dr. Tho. Shirley, and Sir John Fagg, a Member of this House, That the Committee had perused the Journals of the Lords House, and found the Entries to be as followeth.

"April the 30th.

"Thomas Shirley Esquire presented a Petition to the Lords."

"Ordered, That the said Sir John Fagg may have a Copy of the said Petition, and put in his Answer thereunto in Writing, on Friday the Seventh Day of May next, at Ten of the Clock in the Forenoon, if he think fit."

"May the 5th.

"The Commons send a Message by Sir Trever Williams."

"The Knights, Citizens, and Burgesses of the House of Commons, in Parliament assembled, have been informed, that there is a Petition of Appeal depending before their Lordships, at the Suit of Thomas Shirley Esquire, against Sir John Fagg, a Member of their House; to which Petition he is, by their Lordships Order, directed to answer on Friday next; and desire their Lordships to take Care of their Privileges."

"Answer.

"That this House have considered of their Message; and will send an Answer by Messengers of their own."

"Ordered, That the Committee for Privileges do meet this Afternoon, to consider of the Message received from the House of Commons this Day, concerning Thomas Shirley Esquire, and Sir John Fagg, a Member of that House; and search Precedents in the Case; and report to the House To-morrow Morning."

"May the 6th.

"The Earl of Berks reported, That the Committee of Privileges, having met, and considered of what was referred to them in the Case between Tho. Shirley Esquire, and Sir John Fagg, a Member of the House of Commons, and the Message from the House of Commons thereupon, have ordered to report, That the Committee have found, that the House did refer the Business of Mr. Hale and Mr. Slingsby, upon a like Message of the House of Commons, to the Committee of Privileges; who did report to the House, That it is the undoubted Right of the Lords in Judicature, to receive and determine, in Time of Parliament, Appeals from inferior Courts, though a Member of either House be concerned, that there may be no Failure of Justice in the Land: And the House did agree with the Committee therein: And thereupon the Committee do humbly offer to their Lordships, upon this Occasion, to take the same Course, and to insist upon their just Rights in this Particular: Which their Lordships will be pleased to signify to the House of Commons, in such manner as they shall think fit."

"The House agreed with the Committee in this Declaration; and ordered the same to be entered into the Journal Book of this House, as their Declaration; viz.

"That it is the undoubted Right of the Lords, in Judicature, to receive and determine, in Time of Parliament, Appeals from inferior Courts, though a Member of either House be concerned, that there may be no Failure of Justice in the Land."

"Then it was moved, that the former Answer, sent to the House of Commons, in the Case between Mr. Slingsby and Mr. Hale, might be given now to the House of Commons in this Case of Sir Jo. Fagg; and that the Declaration reported and agreed to this Day, might be added to it."

"The Declaration aforesaid was read: And the Question being put, Whether this shall be as a Part of the Answer to be given to the House of Commons;

"It was resolved in the Negative."

"The Answer returned formerly to the House of Commons, in the Case between Mr. Slingsby and Mr. Hale, was in these Words; That the House of Commons need not doubt, but that their Lordships will have a Regard to the Privileges of the House of Commons, as they have of their own."

"The Question being put, Whether this Answer shall be now returned to the Message from the House of Commons;

"It was resolved in the Affirmative."

"May 7th it was sent accordingly."

"May 7th.

"Whereas this Day was appointed for Sir John Fagg, to put in an Answer to the Petition and Appeal of Thomas Shirley Esquire, depending in this House, if he thought fit; the said Sir John Fagg appearing personally this Day at the Bar; and desiring longer Time to put in an Answer thereunto;

It is thereupon Ordered, That the said Sir John Fagg hath hereby further Time given him for putting in his Answer, till Wednesday next, being the Twelfth Day of this instant May, at Ten of the Clock in the Forenoon."

"May 12th

"Sir John Fagg put in his Answer to the Petition of Mr. Shirley."

Resolutions respecting Appeal brought against Sir J. Fagg.

A Debate arising thereupon, touching the Privilege of this House;

Resolved, &c. That the Appeal brought by Dr. Sherley in the House of Lords, against Sir John Fagg, a Member of this House, and the Proceedings thereupon, are a Breach of the undoubted Rights and Privileges of this House.

The House being informed, that the Warrant of this House for taking of the said Dr. Shirley into Custody, was forcibly taken away and detained from the Serjeant at Arms Deputy attending this House, by the Lord Mohun;

And the Serjeant's Deputy being called in; and examined as to the Matter of Fact, gave this Testimony:

That he found Dr. Shirley in the Inner Lobby of the House of Lords; and that he came to him, and desired to speak with him; and acquainted him, that he had a Warrant from the House of Commons to apprehend him; and desired to know, whether he could shew him any Reason to excuse him, that he might not serve the Warrant on him: And that he likewise told him, that he would not execute the Warrant on him in that Place; but desired of him, that he would go along with him freely; and that, in case he would not, he would take his Opportunity in another Place: And that the said Lord Mohun coming in in the mean time, required him to shew his Warrant; which he producing, the Lord Mohun laid Hands of it, and held it so fast, that it was in Danger of being torn; and that therefore he was forced to part with it; and desiring to have it again, the Lord Mohun refused it, but carried the Warrant into the House of Lords:

That Dr. Shirley afterwards refused to go along with him, saying, That he was not then his Prisoner; and that several Persons interposing, the Doctor escaped from him.

And a Debate arising thereupon.

Message complaning of a Lord's obstructing an order of the House.

Resolved, &c. That a Message be sent to the Lords, to complain of the Lord Mohun, for forcibly taking away and detaining the Warrant of this House from the Deputy Serjeant at Arms, for taking of Dr. Sherley into Custody; and to demand the Justice of the Lords House against the said Lord Mohun: And that the Lord Ancram do go up to the Lords with the Message.

Dr. Sherley to be apprehended.

Ordered, That Mr. Speaker do issue forth a new Warrant to the Serjeant at Arms attending this House, for apprehending Dr. Thomas Sherley, to answer his Breach of Privilege, for prosecuting a Suit by Petition of Appeal in the Lords House, against Sir John Fagg a Member of this House, during the Session and Privilege of Parliament.

Coal Trade.

Ordered, That the Bill for Ease and Encouraging the Coal Trade, be read on Tuesday Morning next.

Privilege.

Sir Thomas Meres reports from the Committee of Privileges and Elections, the Examination and State of the Matter in the Breach of Privilege complained of by Sir John Trever; and a Vote agreed by the Committee: Which he read in his Place; and afterwards delivered the same in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same, being twice read, and, upon the Question, agreed, is as followeth:

Resolved, &c. That Thomas Egerton, Robert Fowlkes, and William Yates are not unworthy to receive the Mercy and Pardon of this House for the said Breach of Privilege.

Resolved, &c. That the said Thomas Egerton, Robert Fowlkes, and William Yates be discharged of any further Attendance.

Durham Election Franchise.

Sir Thomas Meeres reports from the Committee of Privileges and Elections, the Case relating to the County and City of Durham: That the Committee to enable them to understand this Matter about issuing the Writ to the County and City of Durham, read the late Act for that Purpose, being the Ground and Foundation of the whole Matter: From whence they observed, that what related to the Electing of Two Knights for the Shire appeared very plain: Whereupon they Resolved, &c. That the Committee is of Opinion, That the Speaker do issue out his Warrant to the Clerk of the Crown, to make out a Writ, for the Election of Two Knights to serve in this present Parliament for the County of Durham, according to the Act of Parliament lately made for that Purpose: But finding the Matter difficult concerning the Electing of Two Burgesses for the City of Durham, they Resolved, That the Chairman of the Committee should make a special Report concerning the Writ, and Process thereupon, for the Election of Burgesses for the City of Durham, according to the late Act; and of the Difficulties that did arise upon considering the same: Which were as followeth:

It appears not plain who shall order the Election, or be Judge of the Poll in the City of Durham: If the Sheriff of the County, who hath only a Precept, and no Writ, then he must order in this City where there is a Mayor, though it be no City and County; the like is not done in England; and for which he hath no Authority by the Act. If the Mayor must order this Election, and be Judge of the Poll, then he must have a Precept so to do for the Sheriff, who acts but by a Precept himself; and there is one Deputy making another Deputy's Precept upon Precept; and for the latter Precept to the Mayor, there is no Authority that appears in the Act: Wherefore the Committee, to prevent Differences in the said City, and Double Returns, have thus far stated the Case to the House, that their Wisdom may take further Care therein, the Case being too difficult for them to determine.

The First Resolve of the Committee, relating to the Electing of Two Knights for the County of Durham, being read at the Clerk's Table;

The Question being put, For agreeing with the Committee in that Resolve;

It was resolved in the Affirmative.

Resolved, &c. That Mr. Speaker do issue out his Warrant to the Clerk of the Crown, to make out a Writ, for the Election of Two Knights to serve in this present Parliament, for the County of Durham, according to the Act of Parliament, lately made for that Purpose.

Resolved, &c. That the further Consideration of the special Matter of the said Report concerning the City of Durham, be adjourned till Wednesday Morning next.

Papists not to sit in Parliament.

Ordered, That the Bill for hindering Papists to sit in either House of Parliament, be brought in, and read Tomorrow Morning.

Duke of Lauderdale.

Ordered, That the Debate touching his Majesty's Answer to the Address of this House, concerning the Duke of Lauderdale, be taken up on Monday Morning next, at Ten of the Clock.

Further Address recalling Subjects from France.

Ordered, That it be referred to Sir Eliab Harvy, Sir Nich. Carew, Sir John Coventry, Mr. Garraway, Sir Wm. Coventry, Sir Edward Deering, Sir John Hotham, Mr. Chetwin, Mr. Crouch, Sir Tho. Meres, Mr. Powle, Colonel Birch, Sir Cha. Harbord, Sir Leoline Jenkins, Sir Tho. Lee, Sir John Mallett, Sir Joseph Williamson, Mr. Sacheverall, Sir Tho. Littleton, Mr. Waller, or any Three of them, to prepare and draw up the further Address to be presented to his Majesty, for recalling his Subjects that are in the Service of the French King.

Upon the Debates of the House;

Privilege.

Resolved, &c. That the further Consideration of the Privileges of this House be adjourned till To-morrow Morning, Ten of the Clock.

And then the House adjourned till To-morrow Morning, Eight of the Clock.