Henry VIII: November 1545, 11-15

Pages 365-385

Letters and Papers, Foreign and Domestic, Henry VIII, Volume 20 Part 2, August-December 1545. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1907.

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November 1545, 11-15

11 Nov. 768. Sir Roger Cholmondeley.
Chief Baron of the Exchequer. See Grants in November, No. 22.
11 Nov. 769. Wriothesley to Paget.
R. O.
St. P., i. 839.
Upon receipt of Paget's last letters, has eftsoons "perused" the state of the treasurers and finds that in his former letters he went as far as they will be able to furnish. Of the Mint if you take a penny more these three months (within which they shall pay half the debt) men will withdraw their resort thither. Since the view of the debt in that office we have had 20,000l. more and it has not ministered to the King above 10,000 marks, so that you owe 10,000l. more than was owing then, and the debt is above 100,000 mark. By forbearing three months, which will not bring past 20,000l., towards the payment of that 100,000 marks, we shall be able to shift there again for 10,000l. a month for four or five months. The Augmentation will not be able to pay Bonvix the 5,000l. for six days yet; and but 10,000l. remains to come in of the ales; and of the revenues they "wot not what," nor can I get an estimate, but guess it at 15,000l. or 16,000l. Of the Tenth and First Fruits remains due above 10,000l. or 12,000l. payable at Christmas when there are "many ordinaries to be paid of the same." The Exchequer will not minister 10,000l., and that at Candlemas, of the remainder of the Subsidy. The Surveyors' court, "which is the Chamber,' (fn. n1) owes so much that when all comes in, viz., about 20,000l., "of the revenues, debts, wards and Duchy," only 5,000l. or 6,000l. will be left.
Thinks it best therefore not to tarry for more money for Bulloyn but let this 10,000l. "go onward," making it, if possible, 12,000l., which is half the debt. The 11,000l. is despatched to the North, order taken for the 4,833l. to Bonvix, the 1,000l. "for the sea shall be rid when they come," and 1,000 marks to the Ordnance. Is at his wits end how to shift for the next three months, and yet some think him too sore in this matter; but if he has offended any it is for the King's service.
Encloses a bill let fall yesterday, at his going to mass, in his dining chamber. When "those naughty books "were brought to him he could do no less than send them to the King and try to find the author, "wherein, though I have not much prevailed, yet some be angry with my doing." Desires to know the King's pleasure and to have the bill returned. Sends certificate of the death in London last week; and returns all the letters last received from Paget. Ely Place, 11 Nov.
Let the packet herewith be delivered to Mr. Denny. It touches the sheriffs for Wales.
Hol., pp. 3. Add. Endd.: 1545.
11 Nov. 770. Otwell Johnson to John Johnson.
R. O. London, 11 Nov. 1545:—Yesterday, by Mr. Love's servant, of the Staple, I received yours of the 3rd, and another from my cousin Ambrose enclosing Mrs. Baynam's to Mr. Comptroller, my master, to which I will procure answer. He said on reading it that "his writing to the Council of Calleis against the Cleveners' obstinacy, in that they will not pay your new gossip John Crantes widow that was due to her husband by them, will little prevail, because he knoweth them to be lawless gentlemen." Your communication with Mr. Appenrith I do not mislike; but, as your advertisement tarried so long, I shipped the pack of cloth by Thomas Guyllem's ship and wrote largely and gently to Mr. Appenrith. On Monday last my lord Chancellor himself made a decree against you which Mr. Walkaknave carried down into the country yesterday, and will put the parson in possession "with no small brags I am sure." Neither time nor paper serve me to declare the circumstances, but such manner of decree making has not been seen before, the one party only spoken with by my Lord and the other never called, nor day given to make proofs. "My Lord, being thoroughly and privily incensed by Mr. Griffin, very suddenly, and on a day (in a manner) extraordinary, pronounced the decree aforesaid, Mr. Croke, Mr. Sergeant nor none other of your counsel being heard speak therein, but rather commanded to silence, and the decree being ready drawn before my Lord sitting down in Westmynster Hall." This judgment can nowise now be changed, and your remedy is to be sought by law from Artewyke as the ground of all this confusion.
Herewith I send you letters from Mr. Cave and your wife. I think they are against me, for I had one from her myself not so gentle as usual. The matter is because I wrote that I had no authority from you to send money for Harryson lately. Harryson has also written rashly that I should "take no care of any money that is sent or delivered unto him for he knoweth me for no owner thereof." Pray answer them both, for I will not.
Hol., pp. 2. Add.: at Calleis. Endd.: aunsweryd at Calles le 15 of the same, etc.
11 Nov. 771. Vander Delft to Charles V.
viii No 168
Wrote on 14 Oct. that Winchester was going to Flanders, and reporting conversations with this King; but now learns that the courier has disappeared. Will make enquiries; and meanwhile sends copies of the letters, although the Emperor will have already learnt all by D'Eick. The Councillors still promise restitution of what Renegat captured from the Indies ship, but complain bitterly that English property in Spain is not released even against security, although the writer is always insisting that captures made here, however suspicious, should be so released. Fears that the course adopted in Spain will hinder his efforts in this direction. With regard to Spaniards and others who have suffered injury from the agents of this King, has, jointly with D'Eick, begged the Chancellor for justice. London, 11 Nov. 1545.
11 Nov. 772. Gardiner, Thirlby and Carne to Henry VIII.
R. O.
St. P., x. 667.
Their assembly with the French ambassadors, appointed yesterday for this forenoon, was deferred till the afternoon, Score himself bringing notice thereof. At 3 p.m. repaired to Court and found Prate, Grandvela and Score ready to receive them. The chamber was handsomely trimmed, with covered forms placed on each side of the table; and at the upper end a form also covered for the Emperor's Councillors. Learnt, before the coming of the French ambassadors that the Admiral, being exceptionally favoured, has the upper hand of the Chancellor, but that Bayard is "superior to them both in advice." Describe the arrival and seating of the French ambassadors (the French ambassador resident, not being in commission, sat apart but within hearing), Grandvela s introduction of the subject, and desires expressed by the Admiral and the writers that their communication might be friendly and to the point. The Admiral spoke "gently, coldly and soberly," not indicating the arrogance which has been noted in him.
Then the Chancellor, with a text of Cicero to the effect that among wise men few words are meet, used a great many to declare how his master sent them to the Emperor, as, by high dignity, qualified to hear the controversy, and there was no need to speak of friendships or pleasures done; but to come straight to the point: "We be assembled to treat a peace. Rendez nous Boloigne qui est a nous, and whatsoever we ought to do for our part, we, quoth he, will do it." Replied that they would use as few words as possible, and not irrelevantly quote past gratuities, but, treating in such a presence, propone what should be had with a peace; Henry had conquered Bulloigne and Bulloignes, which therefore by the law of arms was his, and the French ought to leave it, as heretofore they have left Turnaye and other places; the French king owed Henry a yearly pension which ought to be paid and assured, and arrears of it which should be satisfied; there is due by a writing signed and sealed by the French king above 400,000 cr. (fn. n2) which ought to be paid; and Henry's charges in these wars for the recovery of his own ought to be considered. The Chancellor answered that such a foundation upon Bolen required proof that the war was just. The writers said that they would prove it just; all proof must be deduced either from the authority of persons experienced in a matter or else from the matter itself; and first, as touching authority, "the Emperor, the high prince of this world," had approved the war for just. "The Emperor," quoth the Chancellor, "knew not the particularities of the matters between you and us." Then, said the writers, they must resort to the second kind of proof, which would be sharper, and (with protestation to the Admiral that they were compelled) prepared to prove the war just, "howsoever the speech be misliked." Here the Chancellor said that he would prove it unjust (and thus stopped them by undertaking to prove the negative), and went about to show how Henry refused to aid the French king when the Emperor invaded France in Provence and Mons. de Nasso in these parts, and therefore the French king thought himself discharged of the pension. In answer the writers declared the treaties and denied that Henry was bound to any such defence as the Chancellor "surmitted," adding that the bond was ad expensas requirentis to give men, and that Henry was at the time similarly bound to the Emperor (and here Gardiner declared the French king's contentment in the matter, shown to Mr. Wallop and him at Lyons, in the abbey of Eyne, "with a letter written thereof to your Highness which we had to show of the French king's own hand"); the French king had indeed since that time ceased payment, which was the cause of the war, but always said that he would pay, as well when Gardiner asked it after the Emperor's entry into Provence as many times since; the money was due as a natural debt, "besides the nature of a pension," partly for Turney, partly for money due by the generals of France, etc. The Chancellor here said that he was driven to rehearse matter that should prick; his master borrowed 77,000 cr. of Henry, binding the generals to repay it in 60 years, with interest, which interest and capital in 60 years should amount to 400,000 cr., and having had the money not two years, was asked to pay interest for sixty. (fn. n3) The writers said, to the Admiral, that such a charge required a direct answer; and, Gardiner well remembering the "politic handling" of Antony Cavalere to rid himself out of Henry's debt, plainly declared how Henry won not a penny in it but forbare his money; and (as the Chancellor made no reply) they added that when the Chancellor argued breach of the treaty in not giving aid he adduced no proofs; Henry had often since been promised payment, and, when at last forced to take the sword, had with personal danger justly acquired Bolloigne and Bolloignes, and as the French once left Turney they might now leave Boloigne.
The Admiral answered that Boloigne stood better for them than Turney; he wished that matters were at some good point, and if Boloigne were rendered and the Scots comprehended there would be no difficulty. Asked "what they meant to join the Scots' quarrel to theirs." The Admiral said that the Scots were their old friends, whom they might not abandon; they had not desired the Emperor to leave Henry. We answered that, "if it were any fault for them to leave the Scots, the fault was past; for we were in war with the Scots before our war with France, and at that time the French king let us and the Scots alone," and the Scots had since by treaty abandoned the French king. Here the ambassador resident said that the treaty was made by our faction and not by the whole realm; and we declared the circumstance and also your title to Scotland. The Admiral said that the title was old, and the Chancellor that it was not necessary to renew those old matters. Reminded them of the law quod quisque juris in alium statuit ipse codem jure utatur, since they themselves challenged so many by old titles, and the present possessors of the world must either have old titles or none; if Henry were a prisoner they could not demand more; to be compelled to restore touched a prince's honour and left no profit in war. The Admiral answered that they meant not to constrain but to desire the restoration of Bolen, and, if war was made for honor, Henry had won honor both in conquering and keeping it, and might also have honor in restoring it.
At this point the Emperor's Council withdrew into a corner to consult, and the writers held friendly conversation with the French. The Emperor's Council then returned, and Grandvela said that the only points of difference were Bolen and the Scots; they would report to the Emperor, and, by dealing apart and together, they trusted to bring matters to a good appointment. And so with gentle words we parted, and they left us with the Emperor's Council, of whom we asked when we should talk "of our matters." They answered that "they would see some convenient leisure, and in the mean time know th'Emperor's mind in the points of the treaty." By this time it was torch light, and we departed. Consulting together we thought good in the morning to send to the Admiral for a copy of their commission, and by their countenance guess how our proceeding was taken. "And hitherto yesternight, the xth of November."
This morning Gardiner sent his servant Wingfeld to the Admiral, who answered that he had not the commission, but would send his colleague Bayarde with it; who arrived at 11 o'clock with the commission and a copy of it. The writers and he repaired to Gardiner's bedchamber and communed together familiarly for two hours. He thought the peace easier because of the private affection between the two Kings. As to the 450,000 cr. due besides the pension and arrears, he said that he had here all the treaties but found no such matter. Told him that they had it to show, sealed and signed by the French king. He said that since yesternight they saw that Pomeray's treaty of 1532 bound Henry at his own cost to an aid by sea; which aid, Gardiner said, they never demanded. Bayard thought it had been demanded in Burgoigne at Russon when Gardiner was ambassador; who was thus fain to tell the whole story, and that the French king was not then in war with the Emperor. "Whereunto he could not reply; and yet he had said before, he was present himself." He suggested that the letters in the French king's hand contained other matter than the writers had rehearsed; saying that he had the copy. Replied that they would not report things otherwise than they were, for such reports only hindered matters; Gardiner's plainness when in France led to his being called "no good French." Bayard said he loved him the better for it; for such was his own nature and he was noted "the worst Imperial in the world"; men who would favour another prince against their own master were not good servants; in war naughty men governed the world, and he was sure that there were 100 Italians in this town who would promise anything to have it continue and would serve as the Almains lately served Henry, and likewise serve the French; peace was necessary, and he desired the writers to devise for it and be sure that the French king would consume the rest of his realm to recover Boleigne, for he could not digest the "hownte." Told him that it was no "hownte" to lose in war, and the French, who had so enlarged their country by war, should not envy a little gain to so noble a Prince, and should think no more of it than they did before of Turney. He was sure that there could be no peace without restitution of Boleyn and comprehension of the Scots; fortifications at Boleyn might be recompensed, and comprehension of the Scots would not mean that the French should be enemies to Henry for their quarrel. Seeing that the writers would nowise relent, Bayarde said that the Protestants had written to the Admiral that they saw hope of inducing Henry to relent in both; and he wished that the end might rather be made here, adding that President Raymont, the bp. of Sosson and another would this day arrive at Arde to meet Hertford and another and Secretary Paget, who were now at Dover. Told him "it were no wonder that the Protestants should write so far beyond the truth." He answered that he had the letters; but he would be glad of peace, by whose means soever it came. He said that they departed shortly, for such personages could not long be spared out of France; and when the writers, to provoke him to "note any lack in these men," marvelled that, if so, coming hither on Saturday, they spake no sooner with them than yesternight, he only answered that, having the two points, Bolen and the Scots, from which they could not swerve, they trusted "shortly to conclude."
Noted that he found no lack in the Emperor, and fear that the matter for which the French came hither goes too well; for both the Emperor's Council is colder with the writers and the French seem familiar with the Emperor's Council. Bruges, 11 Nov. Signed.
In Gardiner's hand, pp. 18. Add, Endd.: 1545.
11 Nov. 773. Gardiner, Thirlby and Carne to Paget.
R. O. Having finished and "pacqued" their letters, were sent for to Court, and therefore stayed the post. At Court they found, in the appointed chamber, Praet, Grandevela and Score. Grandevela said that "we had inebriate Bayard and made him ours," and that the French ambassadors had been with them and were still very stiff for restitution of Boloigne and comprehension of the Scots; and they asked "whether there might be any mean devised." We answered that we knew of none; your Highness was as stiff for Boleyn as the French king and we could give no hope. Praet said that he easily believed it, but, as the treaty of peace was in hand, they should "taste all means"; the Emperor should move them to offer somewhat instead of Boleyn—suggesting money. We said that they owed us too much money already. They then began to devise what place might be offered, and Ardre and the county of Guisnes were mentioned. Praet said that the French precisely refused to part with land; but Grandevela thought not amiss to speak of it. Another device was for Bolen to remain in the King's hands until the money due was paid or "surety in bank" given for it. Score smiled thereat, and said that then the king might have it a great while. It was concluded that if the King will not accept money nor the French king make either of the other two offers, peace is desperate, but all these ways should be attempted. To-morrow we will know what the ambassadors say.
"The Emperor's Council spake nothing to us of your matters with them; nor they hear not of Monsr. Diekes Skepperus departure thence ne what answer he had there, as they say." Bruges, 11 Nov. 6 p.m. Signed.
In Gardiner's hand, pp. 3. Add. Endd.: 1545.
11 Nov. 774. Gardiner to Paget.
R. O. In our long letter to the King you shall perceive our talk with the Frenchmen and how speedily the Chancellor could forge a lie about lending of money, wherein he tempted me to answer more roundly than I did. "I knew him sometime for a Lutherian and was well acquainted with him in France, and now and then disputed together, and if I had fallen out with him now he would have said it had been for that. But how constantly he affirmed a lie for a true tale and how fain I would talked with him as I have done, upon like occasion, with the Cardinal of Bellaye! But I refrained and ever avoided the giving check, and gave only a bare mate without any check; wherein I pleased myself, and the Emperor's Council marvelled, I think, for all the protestations were made for me in the beginning. And when the Admiral found his expectation deceived in me he made much of me and hath sent Bayard to me. Which Bayard, in speaking of himself, swore to me he could not endure to make a lie, his nature would not bear to counterfeit so; and yet, at his being with me, in the same communication he bare me wrong in hand. But he yielded in it: so as, belike, he can make a lie but he will not bide by it. In earnest, he is very wise, very sober and, as went from him by starts, by conjecture, seen in good learning. He spake sometime Latin, for his purpose apt, apposite et eleganti pronunciacione. He is choleric and, in his anger, with authority annexed, very stout, as they call him; but I think they have no man can speak more ne better in their affairs than he can. He is another manner of man than the Chancellor." He and I spoke plainly and are entered sufficiently to continue or renew this practice of peace. The Protestants, he says, warrant the conclusion of peace there. If so, it is well; but otherwise they hinder our matters, for these men show the Emperor all. They, especially the Chancellor, make much of the Emperor, calling him the "high power," and so, to prove bellum justum ab auctoritate, I named him to be the "high power," as in our letters.
The Duke of Ferrara's brother, the Cardinal, whom I knew in France, sent me commendations, by one Alexander who comes with the Admiral, desiring me to commend him to the King, to whom he bears service because of honor done to his House in the past. As to a doubtful word in Paget's last letters, would know plainly if he must tarry here long, for he has no horses. Will serve and obey tanquam lutum in manu figuli, but cannot promise to bring anything to pass. If the treaty of peace with France shall be made here, please send copy of the French king's letter and of the obligation for repayment of 450cr. (fn. n4) in casu cessation is solutionis pensi[onum]. "Yesternight supped with me the countie of Bures, Mons. de Hocstrate and a great many; so as, besides a small time of sleep, I have not ceased talking and writing since yesterday three of the clock," and am "yet fasting." Bruges, 11 Nov., 4 p.m.
Sends copy of a letter of the Lansgrave, received from Mons. de Burez, but can get no man to tell what it means; also verified copy of the French king's commission.
Hol., pp. 3. Add. Endd.: 1545.
11 Nov. 775. Gardiner to Paget.
R. O. Our letters to the King show how matters go. Comparing Bayard's "haviour "with what the Emperor's Council tell us, I take it that the French king will not have peace without Bolen nor give land in recompense for it. Our chance is to be in an unreasonable world and our wisdom in wading out of these perplexities with least hurt. The French king thinks all his reputation consists in Bolen and will have it vi, clam or prccario. The Chancellor's "Rendez Boloigno" is abjured and they now pray to have it, but will part with no land, and are too poor to pay money. It is troublesome "to meddle with a proud adversary and a poor." The French owe us above 1,600,000 cr. besides what they should give for Boleyn. It lies with the King "to consider how naughtily the world faileth him in all degrees, and at the point these Almaignes, as a yearly rencontre of the great failing the last year, (fn. n5) whereof the Frenchmen take boldness." Bayard "inculced" acting speedily for peace and said that a hundred spirits in this town persuaded the contrary, instancing "Italians divisers." Writes this as a relief from thinking. To do as the French desire we should have much honour. "Mary, as Pety Roy, (fn. n6) as I have heard told, spake of love to King Henry the vijth, it was too much he said, he would have half in love and half in money: and so the Frenchmen offer too much honour in the matter, for they would have restitution of Bolen only for honour. As for the Scots, Bayard told me secretly, it is not meant to be enemy for their sake; and if the French king be well bound to pay us he shall not be able to forbear much money, and the men the Scots like not." Prate said as much as that the Frenchmen, paying our debts, might well be considered to have paid for Bolen. Bruges, 11 Nov. at 8 p.m. "before supper."
Hol., pp.3. Add. Endd.: 1545.
11 Nov. 776. Thirlby to Paget.
R. O. Knowing him to be informed of proceedings here by their common letters and by my lord of Winchester, has ceased "babbling" with him; but will answer two points in his two several letters, viz., 1. That, being now three lawyers together for "thesclarsynge of the treaty," they should get rid of all doubts that doctors have heretofore made. Thinks that the former treaties were clear enough to those who meant to keep them, and to others words will little serve. 2. That he is sure Thirlby will not willingly return till he has learnt as much Almayne, Italian and Spanish as he learned French at the last Diet. Has no will therein but the King's; and these are many languages to learn at once. One of them (the Almayne) I would be loth "to come in their hands to learn," seeing how rudely they treat the King's Commissaries, to whom we have written twice without receiving answer. Scory says that the Emperor has no answer from Mons. du Lyre concerning the treaty with the Almains for delivery of the Commissaries. Some say that they are marching homeward and lead the Commissaries with them, including now Mr. Avery and Mr. Dymoche. My lord Cobham's son escaped from them and is gone to Calles. "I would be loth (I may tell you) to make so narrow an escape." Bruges, 11 Nov. 1545.
Hol., pp. 2. Add. Endd.
11 Nov 777. Bucler and Mont to Henry VIII.
R. O. By their letters of 27 Oct. and 4th inst., signified that the Lantgrave had taken the Duke of Brunswick and his eldest son prisoners. Having now received from the Lantgrave's chief secretary "all things as they were done, historically," enclose them, together with a Latin translation by Mont. The Lantgrave has since been besieging Ritbergh castle belonging to his vassal the count of Ritbergh, who was with Brunswick but escaped. A post from thence reported last night that the castle was taken. The Diet of the Protestants begins in Franckforde, 6 Dec. It is bruited that the Emperor will bring a great number of soldiers to the Diet at Ratisbone and carry them thence into Spain; and then, reinforced by Spaniards and Italians, make another expedition to Algiera. But this rumor is thought to be blown abroad purposely, and that if he bring so many he will do some feat in Germany amongst the Protestants, who earnestly provide for it. Franckforde, 11 Nov. Signed.
Pp.2. Add. Endd.: 1545.
R. O. 2. Contemporary decipher of the ciphered passage of the above.
P. 1.
R. O. 3. Account of the war between the Landgrave and Duke of Brunswick from Saturday 17 Oct. until the night of Thursday 22 Oct. when the Duke's men were compelled to lay down their arms. A truce was made upon the Sunday but broken by the Duke, who with his son Charles surrendered on the Tuesday night; but his men, after attempting to escape, were not surrounded and disarmed until the Thursday.
German, pp. 6.
R. O. 4. Latin translation of § 3 in Mont's hand.
Pp. 4.
11 Nov. 778. Bucler and Mont to Paget and Petre.
R. O. We have twice signified to the King the taking of the Duke of Brunswicke and his eldest son by the Lantgrave, and now send the particulars as received from the Lantgrave's secretary in Dutche. The translation in Latin is Mr. Mont's. The Diet of the Protestants shall begin here on 6 Dec. Unless we hear from you we cannot then tarry here, having no instructions what to say upon their articles, which we sent by young Honinges from Woormbs the 5th of August. Franckforde, 11 Nov. Signed.
P. 1. Add. Endd.
12 Nov. 779. The Privy Council.
A.P.C., 268.
Meeting at Otlande, 11 Nov. Present: Essex, Cheyney, Browne, Wingfield and Paget. No business recorded.
Meeting at Oteland, 12 Nov. Present: the above and Petre. Business:—Letters addressed to Sir John Williams to deliver 800 cr. in reward to Lord Maxwell. Letters sent to Deputy and Council of Ireland to suffer Geoff. Keting, yeoman of the Guard, who reports Ireland to be well furnished with grain, to transport 4,000 qr. into England within two years. Letters to Deputy and Council at Calais for Sir Edw. Wotton to receive the money of John Wotton, dec., late treasurer at Guisnes, and execute that room until another is appointed, to despatch Lightmaker's band with no more pay than they should have had in the beginning of the month, and to pay Robt. ap Reynoldes, acting standard bearer to the men at arms and horsemen at Calais, 2s a day from 22 Nov. 36 Hen. VIII. Letters to Mr. Gresham and Mr. Wingfelde, at Dover, to despatch Charles Navarroys and his band, stayed for lack of transport. Upon Lord Maxwell's submission and offer to become the King's true subject, according to an instrument drawn, "and likewise for his sons," letters were addressed to Lord Wharton to lay aside former suspicions and esteem him "a man well given, whereof there is hope." Antonio Stracino and Nic. Cresia who, by my lord Admiral's command, delivered at Boloyne 28 draught horses recovered from the enemy, had warrant to Williams for 25l. in recompense.
12 Nov. 780. The Privy Council to Lords Cobham and Grey.
Harl. MS.
283. F. 334.
B. M.
The King (being advertised from Bulloyn that, upon likelihood of doing a notable exploit upon his enemies, request was made to you to send thither horsemen and footmen, which you deferred doing) commands us to signify that for this and other enterprises you shall send such men as you can spare when desired by the lieutenant and council of Bulloyn, and doubts not but that upon their second request you have satisfied their desires; for, otherwise, an opportunity may be lost which may not be had again for a long time. Where you, my lord Deputy, have advertised hither that the ambassadors of the Protestants desire speedy answer touching an abstinence of wars, the King will grant it for the time that his Commissaries and those for France remain together in treaty, provided that, during the abstinence, the French king "put neither munition nor victuals in any of his new pieces." If they agree to that, order shall be taken here for the abstinence. Otelande, 12 Nov. Signed by Essex, Cheyney, Brown, Wingfield and Petre.
In Petre's hand, p. 1. Add, Endd.: 1545.
12 Nov. 781. Sabyne Johnson to her Husband, John Johnson.
R. O. Glapthorne, 12 Nov. 1545:—Private matters. If he sends cloth she will make him three new shirts, for the bands and ruffs are made already. The woolwinders finish on Monday next. You write that Dounckerlay has received 3l. 7s. 8d. and my brother writes 4l. 10s.
Hol., p. 1. Add., at Callais.
12 Nov. 782. Gardiner, Thirlby and Carne to Henry VIII.
R. O. Mons. de Praet, Mons. de Granvela and President Scory, being assembled in the chamber where we met the French ambassadors, sent for us this evening and declared how they had, of themselves, essayed whether the French would offer Arde and the county of Guisnes for Bolloigne, or would suffer Bolloigne to remain in gage till the money was paid; who refused both these overtures, but, in consideration of your fortifications at Bolloigne, would pay 100,000 cr. and also pay the arrearages at days convenient, giving surety by hostages, or else by merchants' banks outside France. Praet said that the French did not mention the pensions hereafter, viager and perpetual, and added that the debt is so great that they seemed ashamed to account it all. Further, the French would comprehend the Scots. And the Emperor's Council asked whether they should travail to bring the French to a greater sum than 100,000 cr. for Bolloigne, or whether we would signify these overtures to you.
We answered that you would rather give Bolen "magnifiquely" than restore it for 100,000 cr., a sum which you esteemed no more than he who in gaming ventures 100 angels esteems 4 angels, and it seemed not honest treating to persuade you "to leave the Scots to their liberty in peace in the time of such advantage over them" and restore a town gotten by yourself and so chargeably kept, for 100,000 cr. They seemed to approve this; only Praet thought it a great matter to be assured of the debt, which extended to a French king's ransom, and Granvela asked if we thought that a larger sum than 100,000 cr. for Bolen would be hearkened to. We reminded him that our commission was to keep Boloigne. He answered that the Frenchmen said they were "put in comfort to have Boloigne," and we replied that we could not believe it.
In former letters we signified what Bayard told us, how, by the Protestants' letters, the Admiral was advertised "of comfort" by such as treat this matter at Calais. Grandvela named not the Protestants, but, in our first communication, spoke as Bayard did; so that we perceive great intelligence between the Frenchmen and those here, and daily they meet in the morning in the Council chamber. Grandvela himself told us that now they had matters of their own with the French ambassadors which gave them less leisure to proceed "in our matters with us," and they marvelled to hear nothing of Skepperus' despatch from your Majesty; having so much travail with these Frenchmen they had no leisure to show the Emperor the articles of the treaty, and they prayed us to have patience until Mons. de Dyeke's coming, which could not be long; asking what to do more with the French ambassadors. We told him that Skepperus had sued for a truce with the French king; and your Majesty, although it was prejudicial to you, would grant it for ten months. Grandvela said that the French wished it for six months; and we answered that these were our instructions. He then asked why the truce should be prejudicial, and we told him, as one "to whom we durst speak confidently," that we had more commodity to annoy them this winter, when they cannot assemble their power, than in summer; for you kept a whole army in Boloigne which might do many feats and annoy their fishing and traffic by sea. He said that he would speak to the French ambassadors of a truce. We asked whether the French ambassadors go to Antwerp on Monday with the Emperor; and Grandvela said that, as there might be matter for further treating with us they should tarry, "or else he thought the matters between the Emperor and them should by that time be finished."
We offer to proceed in your affairs and show no suspicion of their proceedings with the French ambassadors apart, making "fair weather," as Mr. Secretary advertised me, the bishop of Winchester, to do. When Bayard was here with us he seemed content with me (and so Grandvela said yesternight). If matters with the Emperor proceeded not to the French king's contentation, Bayard would not "make strange" to come the second time as he did the first; "and it is much to be feared that the meddling of the Protestants serveth the French king to pull the Emperor to him, and my being here to pull the French king to the Emperor." Bruges, 12 Nov., at night. Signed.
In Gardiner's hand, pp. 6. Add. Endd.: 1545.
12 Nov. 783. Correspondence of Gardiner and Thirlby.
R. O. Abstracts of letters, viz.:—
1. My lord of Winchester &c. to Mr. Paget, 10 Nov., in the morning. No. 765.
2. The same to the same, 11 Nov. at 6 p.m. No. 778.
3. The same to the same, 10 Nov. in the morning. No. 765 (commencement only).
4. The same to the King, 11 Nov. (Two copies, one in Petre's hand.) No. 772.
5. The same to [the King], 12 Nov. No. 782.
Pp. 10. Endd.: Abridgment of certain letters from the bishops of Winchester and Westminster.
12 Nov. 784. Gardiner, Thirlby and Carne to Paget.
R. O. This afternoon Grandeville and other Councillors, being with us, as you shall perceive by our letters to the King, spoke for certain Spaniards' ships mentioned in the enclosed complaints. Doubtless you can consider "how that such melancholy matters be now out of season." When Mons. du Prat and Scory said that these were private matters, "Grandevill threw his arms abroad and said these were great matters and troubled the Emperor wonderfully." Bruges, 12 Nov. 1545. Signed.
In Thirlby's hand, p. 1. Add. Endd.
R. O. 2. Petition to the Emperor by the Consuls of the Spanish nation, complaining of their losses by the English and French since he took peace with France, and before the war broke out; and especially that, twenty days ago, the English took four Biscayan ships going from Rouen to Biscay with merchandise of the Emperor's subjects, and detain them in the port of Hampton. Also reminding him that the case of Lope de Carrion, which was before the Commissioners at the meeting held in Gravelines and Bourbourg, is not settled; and that there seems more opportunity of obtaining justice now when the ambassadors of the said Kings are here.
Spanish. Hol. p. 1.
R. O. 3. Petition of the Spanish merchants to Granvelle to take speedy order for the release of four ships which the English have taken and detain at Hampton, laden with 570 bales belonging to them; for, if the merchandise be landed and distributed, suit for restitution will waste time and money as that of Lopez de Carrion for the other three ships has done these three years. The ships are those of Pedro de Villa, Fernando de Minigo, Fernando de Palacios, and Pedro de Kabancos.
French, p. 1.
12 Nov. 785. Fane and Others to Gardiner and Others.
R. O. Wrote yesterday, by Nicholas, of their deliverance and conclusion with the Almains, and again desire their lordships to be earnest in procuring the Emperor's safe-conduct for Riffenbergh, to be conveyed to him by bearer, Mons. Vander Ee, according to Mons. de Lire's promise. Bearer, both before the arrival of Mons. de Lire and since, has, as the Emperor's commissary, much helped the writers. Beg their lordships to thank him. Are ready to depart to Andwarpe and there abide the King's further instructions. Namure, 12 Nov. 1545. Signed: R. Fane: T. Chamberlain: Tho. Averey.
Pp. 2. Add.: To, etc., my lord of Winchester and other the [King's] Majesty's ambassadors [with] the Emperor. Sealed. Endd.
13 Nov. 786. The Privy Council.
A. P. C., 269.
Meeting at Otlande, 13 Nov. Present: Essex, Cheyney, Browne, "Wingfield, Petre. Business: Upon letters from Boloyne touching stay of Lord Gray's repair thither to reinforce the enterprise devised by the lieutenant and council there; letters were written to Calais to send men presently thither, and to do the same at all times when requested by the said lieutenant and council.
13 Nov. 787. Richard Blownte to Paget.
R. O. This morning, at 4 o'clock, 200 Frenchmen from Arde entered at Oye Sluice and burnt two farms and two "byrre" houses, whereby the King has lost 22l. gr. in rent and I, his tenant, 17l. gr. in rent, besides that the housing cost mine ancestors 90l. "Other displeasure they did none, saving they killed a 5 or 6 of our men," and so returned home through Flanders as they came. My lord Graye and Mr. Marshall with all the horsemen of the town made after them, but we came three hours "too short." We found the ladders by which they crossed the water; and some of them broke the gate and entered thereat. When I complained that some of our captains do not attend upon their charge but remain nightly in the town, leaving the poor men like sheep without a shepherd, lord Graye "declared openly that I lied in mo things than that, which he would approve by your Mastership's letter for the message I did unto him from the King"; whereas I showed him, as commanded, that his Grace heard of nothing done and, having so many men here, desired to "hear that his enemies were wakened, for they slept too much." My said lord further "declared that I should report he feigned himself sick at the arriving of the French army." I trust you will say that I spoke nothing to his disworship, and will remember that, at your going to horse, "through the college," I declared to you the King's message, which I trust that neither his Grace nor you have forgotten. Begs that my lord Deputy and the Council here may know the truth; for he has nothing left but honesty, and my lord Graye declares him "to be as a common liar." Callis, 13 Nov.
Hol., p. 1. Add.: To, etc., Sir William Paygyte, etc. Endd.: 1545.
13 Nov. 788. Gardiner to Paget.
R. O. Is much troubled with the state of affairs, not being in England where he can speak his mind and do as commanded. We are in war with France and Scotland, have enmity with the Bp. of Rome, have no assured friendship here, and have received from the Lansgrave, chief captain of the Protestants, such displeasure that he has cause to think us angry with him. Our war is noisome to our realm and to all merchants that traffic through the Narrow Seas, who here cry out wonderfully. At home appears lack of necessaries for war. The peace offered by the Frenchmen is so miserable that we ought to fear danger to the King's health, "after so long travail in honour, in rule and government of the world, to sit still with such a peace as to render Bolen and let the Scots alone only for a little money not paid but promised." Two millions is little money to us who have spent five, and, as to assurance by merchants' bonds or by hostages, we have seen how hostages are regarded in France with the Emperor and in Scotland with us, and bonds might at any time be annulled by a (so called) General Council. We are in a world where reason and learning prevail not, and covenants are little regarded. This is another matter "than where I played Periplectomenus, you Miliphippa and my lord Chancellor Palestrio, and yet our parts be in this tragedy that now is in hand." If we now took Counsel what to do, as in the comedy, Palestrio would have to muse longer for the "seding," as the poet calls it, of this matter. If we conclude to embrace peace, for the sake of the realm, we ought to study to preserve the King's repose of mind for "prorogation of his life till my lord Prince may come to man's estate," and therefore should say "Fye of such a peace as might be so displeasant." True, the King might, for his great learning, digest the displeasure and understand that to be most honorable that is most expedient for the realm; but I fear it will not be thought expedient that a prince who has been dreaded by his neighbours should be brought into such state as to be less regarded, and "neither your heart nor mine could endure to see it." If the treating between them here and France take effect, as is to be feared, it is vain to hope that the Emperor will "eclarsye and accomplishe the treatie as we wold have it;" for he will then not enter war for our sake as he ought, nor comprehend Bolen and Bolloignois as we desire, "and how he will increase his bond to us by obligation of his towns and otherwise, as is devised, it is to be doubted." The Protestants cannot increase our authority in the world, but only corrupt the realm with their detestable opinions, which, when we shall have cause to weary of them all, as we have now cause to detest the Lansgrave, will engender a worse war in men's hearts. They are entangled with three encumbrances, viz., with poverty, with "subjection in duty to him they resist, the Emperor," and with want of credit. "They trouble the world as promoters of God's quarrel, and when they have put in a wrong information, as Weple (fn. n7) hath sometime done in the Exchequer for the King, then they shall, as Weple hath done, make an agreement for their commodity and fall in a nonsuit of their information. They cannot continue ne prosper, but wrangle to trouble themself and other," and are only good, like an ill shot in a shooting match, to pull down a side. They use all things to make money. Whether they have done hurt in treating between the French king and us you can better tell than I; but I would marvel if the French king offered a better bargain by them than by the Admiral, "who, Bayard said, is the King's breast." I told him that he was a breast also, whereat he smiled; "and indeed I have heard that he is Madame d'Estampes' breast." He is a "stout fellow" and would fain have peace; and so would we, but how shall it be if the French king is thus stubbornly set? As he stirred the world for Myllayn, so he may be expected to move against us indirectly. Bayard said once that the French king "might trouble the earth over Bolen as the Turk is wont to win towns," but prayed us not to take that as a threat, for he would win it now by amity if he might, "with intercession and request." Fears to say that the King should accept these base conditions, and yet cannot advise continuance in war against France and Scotland, the Emperor being a doubtful friend. Of the one way "I think no man dare speak on this or that side if he have no better stomach than I have." I have written vehemently for peace, noting that the worst peace is better than the best war; but toe peace the Frenchmen offer is so "underfoote" and so uncertain of observation that I cannot take comfort in it. On the other part, war, if the Emperor slip from us or be not with us, cannot like me, and I think mislikes a great many. Knows the importance of the King's person to the realm and fears the effect "of adversity in age." As for this dark working here, remembers that Skepperus twice told him how the Emperor would now tentare extrema against the Protestants. If the French king fall in with the Emperor, that matter is surely a part of their agreement; in which case we shall be coldly heard of the Emperor unless we join therein, "and then one part of their matter is such as we may not speak in it," and, knowing this, the French king has made the Emperor believe that he himself may have better conditions of peace by the Protestants than by the Emperor. "Thus everything that were good to be done hath an overthwart matter annexed unto it." Peace is good, but has such base and unsure conditions that they deface it. "To agree with the Emperor for repressing of the Protestants, upon this occasion given us by the Lansgrave, were good to allure the Emperor, if anything would allure him. But then there is another matter saith nay. War for maintenance of that the King's Majesty hath gotten were not evil. But then to continue war alone in so many places and with such unfaithful soldiers as we shall be enforced to use, will consume and devour that we would defend and our own also." Fears that this long letter will only increase perplexity. Bruges, 18 Nov.
"Thus I make you an account of my pastime, muse in the night and write in the day when I am at leisure from talking and a little reading."
Hol., pp. 8. Add. Endd.: 1545.
13 Nov. 789. Jannetien Vander Goes to John Johnson.
R. O. Business matters concerning Jan Crant, Simon Pollaert and Wm. Abell. Written in haste 13 Nov. 1545, in Antwerp.
Dutch. Hol., p. 1. Add.: tot Calles.
13 Nov. 790. Harvel to Henry VIII.
R. O.
St. P., x. 677.
In his last, of 31 Oct., signified the presenting of Henry's letters to this Signory concerning Ludovico de Larme. Duke Peter Lando died on the 9th inst., at the age of 84 years, and the creation of a new prince will occupy these men all the present month; but after that, Harvel will solicit Ludovico's cause. Also certified the King of the discharge of such captains as were in Henry's wages under Count Bernardo, Angel Marian and Philip Pini. It is thought that the ambassadors at Constantinople should be expedited this month, and depart without effect, the Turk demanding so great conditions. Suspects that the Venetian ambassador, who pretends to favour them, rather hinders the truce because of these men's distrust of the Emperor. Suspicion seems to increase between Imperials and French in Piedmont. In Rome are great rumors of opening the Council at Trent shortly, and sending Cardinal Fernesy against the Protestants with a great power; but the late victory of the Langrave against Pranswike will refrain them. Venice, 13 Nov. 1545.
Hol., p. 1. Add. Endd.
14 Nov. 791. Sabyne Johnson to John Johnson.
R. O. Glapthorne, 14 Nov. 1545:—The wool winders have finished, having wound 97 sacks and 10 todd, and packed 27 cloths. Their winding comes to 7l. 15s. 8d. and their packing to 27s., and I have given them 40s., leaving my brother to reckon with Dounckerlay for the rest. Gave them a reward of 12s.
Hol., p. 1. Add.: at Callais.
14 Nov. 792. Deputy and Council of Ireland to Henry VIII.
R. O.
St. P., iii. 537.
There are now advanced 2,000 men out of Ireland to attend Lennoux into Scotland under the leading of Ormond, who has taken great pains and prepared 1,000 of them himself, doing as he always does more than any other of his degree here, wherein the writers hope that Henry will "consider him according your (sic) princely clemency." Kylmaynan, 14 Nov. 37 Hen. VIII. Signed by St. Leger, Alen, Dublin, Meath, Aylmer, Bath, Lutrell, Cusake and Brabazon.
P. 1. Add. Endd.
14 Nov. 793. Gardiner, Thirlby and Carne to Henry VIII.
R. O. Spoke this afternoon with Prate, Grandvela and Score, who alleged the absence of Skepperus to be a great hindrance, but desired the "eclaresyng" of the treaty according to notes made in England by Skepperus; with a vehement declaration by Grandvela of the Emperor's affection to this amity. After much talk in generalities, they came to the 6th article of "common enmity upon invasion," wherein Grandvela said that the Emperor had a peace with France and "a former" with Henry, and asked how he should "use himself to the Frenchmen, being in war with you only for Bolen." We answered that the cause was no matter, and the peace with the Frenchmen was not prejudicial to the league, whereby, as often as they invaded places named therein, the Emperor is bound to declare himself enemy of the French king, and is now so bound. Here Grandvela, Prate and Scory all repeated, after consultation together, that if henceforth the Frenchmen should invade Calays, Guysnes, Hammes, England or the isles of Gernesey and Jersey, the Emperor would be bound to declare himself enemy to the French king, and if Henry invaded the French king the Emperor had no obligation to France and would not move; only an incourse of 100 or 200 horse was not to be called an invasion, —there must be "a form of an army"; and thus they will understand the treaty, with the rest of the article touching giving aid to an invader. They speak of understanding from henceforth, "because now we begin to eclarsye the treaty"; and they note that if the French king will touch any of your pieces he shall have the Emperor for enemy, and you, having only Bolen to defend, will soon cause him to weary of the war. We asked why not comprehend Bolen? And they answered Because of their treaty with France; and gently desired that you would consider the Emperor in it. This article, which is the foundation whereon to constrain the French king to a reasonable peace, we would not finish till we know how you accept it. By it if the French king aid the Scots to invade your realm the Emperor must take him for enemy. In the rest of the articles they are content according to the note herewith. Touching the marriages Grandvela said that the ages of my lord Prince and the Emperor's daughter agreed, and in it and the rest they would speak with the Emperor; adding "that we must laugh when we speak of marriages," and put the retarding of these matters to the want of Skepperus, "whose so long absence without word from him is much wondered at."
Think it best not to abolish the old treaty but add these "eclarsmentes" by a new covenant, so that the treaty may still bear date prior to that with France.
At their departing, Grandvela and Prate mentioned a report that the treating with the Frenchmen here was but "for a countenance," and the "earnest treating to be by mean of the Protestants." We affirmed the contrary cum juramento, and told what was written to us therein, at which they were glad; and we added that we had written that neither the Emperor nor his Council found fault [with] that the Protestants did. Grandvela said that that was so, if peace might follow it, and yet peace were more honorable by the Emperor's means; and if the King should part with Bolen, it were better done "at the Emperor's request than at the mediation of three clerks," in whom as much truth would be found as in Riffingberge, who, by the Lansgrave's order, has handled you worse than ever prince was handled. They added that for the great sum which the Frenchmen must pay you the assurance was stronger by the mediation of the Emperor than by that of the Protestants; "and herwith told us a mery tale howe oon in Almayne, bicause he was present whenne a bargayn was made, he snapped us by the snappe hanses to paye the debte oonly bicause he was wytnesse." They said that the French king "openly reported that the Protestants be the honest, noble, gentle, wise, grave, men of the world." Finally they said that they would labour a peace between you and the French king.
At the writing of this came an advocate from the French ambassadors, who, finding Gardiner and Thirlby together, declared in many words how he knew Gardiner formerly in France and his great desire for peace, adding that the Chancellor of France rejoiced that he was to renew acquaintance with Gardiner and desired to meet him at the church tomorrow at 8 o'clock at mass. Promised to be there, and will tomorrow signify their communication; so as not to defer sending that of today, which is more special than any they have yet had. Bruges, 14 Nov., at night. Signed.
In Gardiner's hand, pp. 7. Add. Endd.: 1545.
14 Nov. 794. Gardiner to Paget.
R. O. Thanks for letters received yesterday, not mentioning our despatch on Saturday. (fn. n8) Our letters by Nicholas were not pleasant, and I was yesterday all melancholy and fain to "make a purgation in a letter, which I needed not have done if I had known so much as I know now." When read, burn it. Desires peace, but cannot away with leaving Bolen as the French would have it; and is this day cheered, for Grand vela speaks in special terms, the Chancellor of France desires to speak with him, and the Queen of Hungary has invited him to supper to-morrow night after the French ambassadors dine there. The words of the 7th article which are not liked here seem not so material for us. They were devised by Skepperus; but we have not relented in them. Now that you see where the sticking will be here, you may weigh whether the 6th article, obtained in a good form to discourage the French to stick at Bolen, countervails it. The 6th article leaves the Frenchmen with a very unequal war, not daring to attack our pieces or to give money to the Scots to invade us. The best is peace, but I would rather be killed in war than die of languishing under an ill favoured peace. I had much ado in this matter yesterday, as will be seen by my letters, "which I pray you burn." Will spare no writing. Prays God the Protestants do no hurt. "In this entertainment the Emperor seeth his subjects' ministers compared with his person and so contend with him as they have the same matter in hand that he hath, with a noise and a bruit that they shall mediate that he cannot." Neither he nor his Council spake of it till now, and if peace follow, it will blow over; otherwise they have done us as much hurt as the Lansgrave did in recommending Riffenberge and urging him to "do us contumely in misusing the Commissaries."
The Emperor goes not hence so soon as was thought. Bruits of the coming of the French Queen or the French King's daughter were called "fond tales" by the Frenchman who came to require an hour of meeting between the Chancellor and me. Will guess, in communing with the Chancellor, how things go. Busy and secret working between the Emperor's Council and the ambassadors of France made me fancy that the Protestants pulled the Emperor to the French king, and we the French king to the Emperor, and meanwhile the Emperor's Council and the French ambassadors were glueing them together; "but by like the glewe pot is not thoroughly hote." Bruges, 14 Nov., 9 p.m.
Hol., pp. 3. Add. Endd.: 1545.
15 Nov. 795. The Privy Council.
A.P.C., 269.
Meeting at Otlande, 14 Nov. Present: Essex, Cheyney, Browne, Wingfield, Petre. "They sat not to hear any matters."
Meeting at Otlande, 15 Nov. Present: Canterbury, Chancellor, Hertford, Paget and Baker in addition to the above. Business:—Letters addressed to Wardens of East and Middle Marches to send 1,000 horsemen to Carlisle on the 20th for an exploit to be done by order of Lord Wharton; also to Gamboa to be there with his whole band; to the President at York to send back the Clevois and Almains, horsemen, to that enterprise, giving them money for their charges and defraying their debts in York, and taking allowance of the King's treasurer, lately sent down, and also to send to Pomfret for Lord Maxwell's son pending the sending from hence of a writing to be signed and sealed by him. Letters written to customers, &c., of London to permit Mr. Tolose, alderman, and two Spaniards (to be named by the Lord Chancellor) to unlade 300 tuns of Gascon wine lately arrived at Marget.
15 Nov. 796. Ormond to Russell.
R. O.
St. P., iii. 538.
Knowing him to be busy with important matters, has forborne to write, and would still forbear were it not to beg his favour. At setting forth from Gawran, on 28 Oct. last, towards this journey into Scotland, found, among a press of people, a letter (copy enclosed) of which he would forthwith have certified the King's Council but that the lord Deputy, to whom he immediately showed it, thought meet to debate it first with the Council here, promising, however, that he should be the first to write thither of it. Trusts that that appointment has been kept, although some passengers are gone over before this bearer. Protests that if he have not the King's favour he would rather not live; and only desires that if anything is forged against him he may come to the King, or else that some nobleman may be sent hither to try his proceedings, such as "my lord of Norfolke, my lord Great Chamberlain, your lordship, my lord Admiral, my lord of Essex, my lord of Winchester, my lord of Westminster, the Mr. of the Horses, Mr. Thesaurer or Mr. Comptroller." Is not a timorous subject, and if he saw all the world armed against his Majesty, would rather run to him and be slain at his heels than leave him.
This day Lenoux and he sail towards Scotland. The King's haven of Skery, 15 Nov. Signed.
P. 1. Add.: To, etc., my lord Privey Seale. Endd.
R. O.
St. p., iii. 539.
2. ––––––––– to Ormond.
"Right honorable lord, earl of Ormonde, if you were the man that some men writeth you be" I would not write this; but I doubt not you will prove a true man, and they in Ireland that think to cast you away false. The King, upon their false tales, wrote a privy letter (fn. n9) by his Council (subscribed by the duke of Suffolk, a little before his death, the earl of Essex, the bp. of Wynchester and Mr. Paget) to the effect that, whereas to the whole Council they wrote for names and companies of those most able to serve the King next summer, it was in order that you might be sent over, whose proceedings his Highness thinks not to be true. The Deputy was to keep that letter to himself. There is a common saying that you shall be sent into Scotland to be cast away; and the Deputy's servants say that they will keep Christmas in your strongest houses. Lenoux said in Chester "I must into Irlande and from thence shall go with me into Scotlande the most noble man in Irlande, and for his labour he shall shortly after be set in the Towre." The King believes that you let the reformation of Ireland, whereas it is they who destroy the land with bribery and extortion. All Ireland knows that the Deputy is "the most dissembler and most craftiest man that ever came amongst them,' and seeing the land nigh cast away through the false guiding of him and his brother he would turn the fault upon others. He makes men in England believe that Ireland is brought into peace, but in the English Pale is nightly "bodrag and robbery and stealing," and in every other quarter great war, and Irishmen combining together. The Deputy and his brother receive part of the robberies to maintain thieves, "and there be nightly more thieves in the King's manor of Catherlaghe than in a great part of Ireland," who have robbed and wasted the countries about them, both English and Irish; of which the King knows nothing. "Written with mine own hand, to my great pain."
"My lord, for all this, take no discourage, and set valiantly forward against the Scots; and trust that God and your truth shalbe enough before so just a King to quit you against craft and falsehood."
Copy, p. 1.
797. Rowry Omore, Captain of Leis, to Henry VIII.
R. O. His father, Connyll Omore, submitted, and even in the midst of the rebellion of the Geraldines forsook them and served the Deputy, Sir Wm. Skeffington, against them and also against the earl of Desmond, the earl of Tomound and others until they submitted; and divers times when Oconour procured him to war against the King he refused. The said Connyll at his death said "I leave my blessing with my sons, so as they aver only the King and his Grace's deputy for ever, and to serve them truly against all men." At his death his son Kedaghe, the writer's brother, was nominated Omore by the Deputy and Council, and "bought silks and other clean English apparel for himself and his wife "and came to Parliaments and Councils, and took his lands of the King's gift at service of men of war and rent; and in divers places in Mounester and Ullister he served against the King's "dissobeysauntes" as no man of Irish birth did. Yet, in resorting to the town of Rosse with six horses, "having his male and English apparel behind one of his yeomen," and four horsekeepers afoot, he was at Kyllynnyner in co. Carelaghe assaulted and murdered by Donull McCaier, an open robber of the King's true subjects, who was both before and after received and victualled in the King's manor of Cahirlaghe. Afterwards when the writer found two of the murderers at the Nase, one of them, Tirrelaghe Ooge, was released by the Deputy without the Council's assent. The Deputy and Council, with the assent of all Leix, admitted (fn. n10) the writer to be Omore on the same conditions as Kedagh, paying 20 mks. rent, and receiving written promise of the King's protection. Remained in quiet until the Deputy lately repaired into England, when the lord Justice and Council, by letters and promises, procured him to war against O'Conour, (fn. n11) who, seeking always to raise rebellion, "married his daughter to my brother to whom is mother th'erle of Kildare's daughter (fn. n12) be (sic) procured in the absence of your said Deputy to marry another to Okarull, and procured me to take his part, and offered me for that purpose large offers, all of which offers I refused." The lord Justice and Council then wrote to him to make sharp war upon O'Conour, which he did, and slew O'Conour's eldest son and others, and enforced him to submit to the King, when, contrary to their promise, the Deputy and Council did not provide for him but left him and O'Conour "at large." He however "tangled so" with O'Connour and his Irish friends as to do them more damage than he sustained, until O'Conour devised by "taking his son to be his foster son, and for other corrupt causes," to obtain the support of the Deputy, so that, contrary to the will of the rest of the Council, no justice could take place. The Deputy swore, upon a mass book, that if the writer would submit he should be justified against his brother Patrick. Both he and Patrick then put themselves into the Deputy's hands as prisoners, and thereupon O'Conour came and built a castle and bridge "upon" the writer and burnt and spoiled his country. All the Council thereat made exclamation to the King on the said Deputy, who, however, detained the writer prisoner until O'Conour had finished his defence works. Many of the King's subjects murmur at this shameful partiality. The Deputy's brother, Mr. Robert Sentlegier, keeps thieves, traitors, outlaws and felons in the King's house of Carlaghe nightly, who have robbed all the writer's country, as bearer can more fully declare.
Hol., pp. 3. Add. Endd.: Rowry Omore's complaynt.
798. Gardiner and Thirlby to Henry VIII.
15 Nov.
R. O.
The Chancellor of France sent again this morning, signifying that he tarried for me at the church; whither my lord of Westminster and I incontinently went, and found him walking in a cloister. He said that he would rather talk with me himself than by a mediator, and that the words "rendez Bolloigne," which he used the last day, were not meant as to give laws to the King but to declare at once the bottom of their commission, which is to have Boloigne and the comprehension of the Scots, and not consume time to nourish other men's glory. We then exhorted each other to procure peace, with "sentences of Scripture and wise men's advertisements of the good of peace"; and agreed to use our endeavours therein, and confessed that Boleyn was not worth what it had cost. He declared (with protestation that it was not a threat) how the French king might entertain the war with his ordinary garrison of horsemen, and how the charge of his galleys was an ordinary charge. I told him we knew that last year. Further conversation, in which Gardiner asked why it was more "hownte" to the French king to lose Boleyn than it was for the Emperor to lose Heding, or for King Loes to leave Turnaye in Henry's hands; and the Chancellor replied that the French king's heart was set upon it, and that the suggestions of the Emperor's Council, to exchange it for Arde, &c., or leave it with Henry until the money was paid, were nothing. When the Chancellor said that the offer of 100,000 cr. would be increased, Gardiner told him that the offer of great sums was an indication that the French king never meant to pay; for he had better forbear two Bolens than so hinder his other enterprises. The Chancellor answered that his King might spend 10,000,000 fr. and thereof spare a great quantity, that the money for Bolen should be paid down, and the rest by instalments. Asked him about assurance of the pension during Henry's life and perpetually. He replied that, once at peace, there should "never be war again, never, never," and means would be devised to increase love. Told plainly how, when out of need they forget their bonds and how he (Gardiner) was evil taken among them because he admonished them therein. The Chancellor said that he did like an honest man and wished that princes had always such ministers; asking him to devise some means of peace. Told him frankly that, without transgressing Henry's commission, I (Gardiner) could not talk of restoring Bolen; but dare devise how, retaining Bolen, Henry might favour the French king by remission or delay of payments. I then "went about to persuade him to move the French king thereunto, for that Bolen and Boloignois is but lately bought by the French king, and in his time; it is no dependent of the crown. 'Yes,' quoth he, 'in superiority.' I told him the French king might as easily renounce that superiority for the good of peace with your Highness as he did the superiority of Flanders for the good of peace with the Emperor. And Bolen, I said, lyeth more propice for your Highness to be joined to Calais than the French king." He lifted up his hands, saying there was no remedy, and wishing Bolen "under ground," for he had himself told the Protestants, precisely, that in any case the French king would have Bolen and comprehend the Scots and would not send commissioners to treat unless likely to obtain these two points. Asked whether any such likelihood was given by the Emperor, "he said 'Nay, but I mean,' quoth he, 'of such commissioners as be now sent to Arde with the Protestants.' I told him that if those commissioners at Arde have as precise commission as they have, I can hope no good effect to succeed. 'Ye may be sure,' quoth the Chancellor, 'they have no larger commission or instructions than we have, but all is one matter.' I said they were notably precise, both two at one time to require deliverance of such a town and such a realm as Scotland is." Talking then of Scotland, and the Chancellor pretending that the French king is bound thereunto by ancient treaties, Gardiner said that the world knew that the French entertained the Scots only to annoy us; they now made the comprehension of the Scots a necessary matter, and called it a "hownte" to leave them, but he could show that in a peace (fn. n13) with us they comprehended the Scots with a qualification that if the Scots entered England with 300 horse that comprehension should be void—which was evidence that the Scots were comprehended of benevolence and not of duty. The Chancellor denied that such a qualification had been passed, and refused to grant it until he saw the original; and Gardiner called my lord of Westminster to witness, "but the Chancellor fled from that issue, for indeed it overturneth all their precise pretence." Finally the Chancellor asked whether Henry would "precisely stick to the keeping of Bolen;" and, being told yea, said that they had better depart, they had good peace with the Emperor and would pray God to incline the two Kings' hearts to the wealth of their subjects and repose of Christendom, and he thanked Gardiner for being so plain. Answered that because the Chancellor desired so familiarly to talk with him he had talked familiarly, and he was sure that the Chancellor and his colleagues would do as ordered by their master and not make Gardiner "author of their departure." The Chancellor protested that that was not his meaning, but he would know whether Henry would "relent in Bolen; "and both then agreed that their masters were not "immutable in opinion," and concluded to tarry and write their communications, and make each other participant of their advertisements from home. And so departed very friendly.
After dinner an Italian, servant to the Cardinal of Ferrare and now accompanying the Admiral, said that both the French king and his master rejoiced that Gardiner was here, and that the Admiral would gladly meet him in some church, or walking abroad.
This evening President Score brought certain articles to be joined to the treaty, "concerning the good entreatment of the Emperor's subjects," with good words for the furtherance of our matters with the Emperor. We will send them by next post, when we have read them. Scory said that they were not of moment, and also, "suddenly, that the Frenchmen were not then as they would." At the communication with the Chancellor I, the bp. of Westminster, was in the place, but talked privately with another whom we found with the Chancellor. Tomorrow the Emperor goes to Andwerpe and we shall not be able to speak of our matters till Thursday, "by which time Skepperus shall be come, and he is undoubtedly in good estimation." Bruges, 15 Nov., 5 p.m. Signed.
In Gardiner's hand, pp. 10. Add. Endd.: 1545.
15 Nov. 799. Gardiner to Paget.
R. O. Writes herewith his long discourse with the Chancellor, that matters may be known thoroughly. If the seeking of the ambassadors of France to speak with him be only to put suspicion in the Emperor's head, he can "ease that matter"; but he begs for a word of the King's pleasure in that behalf. Is partly justified in doing it by his instructions. "Consider what the Chancellor saith of the Protestants, and what they tell you." Is going to the Queen of Hungary to supper and has been interrupted, but would send this post away first, and send the articles which Scory brought by the next. Are going to Andwerpe and may not write again before Thursday, (fn. n14) for so many days will it be ere they come there. Mr. Kerne has read the articles brought by Skore which shall be answered with the resolution taken at the Diet. We go "dulcely" with the Emperor's Council, who seem already "somewhat over the barre," as though, if they could bring France and us to peace, they would less fear the 6th article. Skore said this evening that upon Skepperus's coming we shall go through. I am sent for to supper. Bruges, 15 Nov., 5 p.m.
Hol., pp. 2. Add. Endd.: 1545.


  • n1. The treasurer of the Chamber was ex-officio, treasurer of the Court of General Surveyors.
  • n2. Sir. The abstract in No. 783 says more precisely 450,000 cr.
  • n3. See Vol. IV., Nos. 272-4. Observe the name of Antonio Cavalari in No. 273 and also in 1,729, 2,567 and 8,435. The last document is very insufficiently described in the Calendar. It is really an acquittance by Francis of a bond given by the Cavalari to Henry VIII. who had made over his claims to the French King. See Rymer XIV. 230.
  • n4. Meaning 450,000 cr.
  • n5. Of Laudenberg's army.
  • n6. Who this was is not quite clear. A Fleming named Petit Roy occurs in Vol. i. 4445. There is also a John Roye. gentleman usher of the Chamber, who had a loan from Henry VIII. See Vols. I and ii.
  • n7. George Whelpeley. See Vol. XVI.
  • n8. Of Saturday the 7th, No. 749.
  • n9. See No. 94.
  • n10. 13 May 1542. See Vol. XVII., No. 1071.
  • n11. See Vol. XIX., Part i., No. 240
  • n12. O'Connor married a daughter of Gerald earl of Kildare, who apparently was the mother of O'More's brother's wife.
  • n13. The treaty of London, 7 Aug 1514.
  • n14. Nov 19th.