House of Lords Journal Volume 14: 5 February 1689

Journal of the House of Lords: Volume 14, 1685-1691. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1767-1830.

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Citation:

'House of Lords Journal Volume 14: 5 February 1689', in Journal of the House of Lords: Volume 14, 1685-1691( London, 1767-1830), British History Online https://www.british-history.ac.uk/lords-jrnl/vol14/pp117-118 [accessed 13 July 2024].

'House of Lords Journal Volume 14: 5 February 1689', in Journal of the House of Lords: Volume 14, 1685-1691( London, 1767-1830), British History Online, accessed July 13, 2024, https://www.british-history.ac.uk/lords-jrnl/vol14/pp117-118.

"House of Lords Journal Volume 14: 5 February 1689". Journal of the House of Lords: Volume 14, 1685-1691. (London, 1767-1830), , British History Online. Web. 13 July 2024. https://www.british-history.ac.uk/lords-jrnl/vol14/pp117-118.

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In this section

DIE Martis, 5 die Februarii.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

L. Arch. Yorke.
Epus. London.
Epus. Durham.
Epus. Winton.
Epus. Lincolne.
Epus. Landaffe.
Epus. Glocester.
Epus. Ely.
Epus. Rochest.
Epus. Bath & Wells.
Epus. Norwich.
Epus. Peterbor.
Epus. Bristoll.
Epus. St. David's.
Epus. Oxon.
Epus. Chichest.
D. Norfolke.
D. Somersett.
D. South'ton.
D. Grafton.
D. Ormond.
D. Northumb'l'd.
Marq. Winton.
Marq. Hallifax.
Comes Oxon.
Comes Shrewsbury.
Comes Kent.
Comes Derby.
Comes Rutland.
Comes Huntingdon.
Comes Bedford.
Comes Pembrook.
Comes Suffolke.
Comes Dorsett.
Comes Exeter.
Comes Bridgewater.
Comes North'ton.
Comes Devonsh.
Comes Bristoll.
Comes Clare.
Comes Bollingbrook.
Comes Westm'l'd.
Comes Manchest.
Comes Mulgrave.
Comes Rivers.
Comes Stamford.
Comes Winchelsea.
Comes Kingston.
Comes Carnarvan.
Comes Chesterfeild.
Comes Thannet.
Comes Scarsdale.
Comes Clarendon.
Comes Anglesey.
Comes Bath.
Comes Carlisle.
Comes Craven.
Comes Aylisbury.
Comes Burlington.
Comes Litchfeild.
Comes Danby.
Comes Sussex.
Comes Feversham.
Comes Macclesfeild.
Comes Radnor.
Comes Yarmouth.
Comes Berkeley.
Comes Nottingham.
Comes Rochest.
Comes Abington.
Viscount Fauconberge.
Vicecomes Mordaunt.
Vicecomes Newport.
Vicecomes Weymouth.
Ds. Delawar.
Ds. Morley.
Ds. Ferrers.
Ds. Grey Ruth.
Ds. Eure.
Ds. Wharton.
Ds. Pagett.
Ds. North & Grey.
Ds. Chandos.
Ds. Brooke.
Ds. Montagu.
Ds. Grey de Werk.
Ds. Lovelace.
Ds. Maynard.
Ds. Coventry.
Ds. Howard de Esc.
Ds. Herbert Cher.
Ds. Leigh.
Ds. Jermyn.
Ds. Vaughan.
Ds. Ward.
Ds. Colepeper.
Ds. Astley.
Ds. Lucas.
Ds. Lexington.
Ds. Berkeley.
Ds. Cornwallis.
Ds. Delamer.
Ds. Crewe.
Ds. Arundell Trer.
Ds. Lumbley.
Ds. Carteret.
Ds. Dartmouth.
Ds. Godolphin.
Ds. Churchill.
Ds. Griffin.

Marquis of Halyfax appointed Speaker pro Tempore.

Heads for a Conference about the Vote concerning King James's Abdication; &c.

The Earl of Nottingham reported, "The Committee have prepared some Reasons, to be offered to the Commons at a Conference, to shew why they cannot agree to the Reasons of the Commons, offered Yesterday at the Conference."

His Lordship read them; (videlicet,)

"The Lords do insist upon their Amendment to the Vote of the House of Commons of the 28th of January, instead of the Word ["abdicated"], to insert the Word ["deserted"]; for the Reasons following:

"1. Because the Lords do not find that the Word ["abdicate"] is a Word known in the Common Law of Engl'd. And the Lords hope, that the Commons will agree to make Use of such Words only, whereof the Meaning may be understood according to Law; and not of such as will be liable to doubtful Interpretations.

"2. Because, in the most common Acceptation of it in the Civil Law, Abdication is a voluntary express Act of Renunciation, which is not in this Case, and does not follow from the Premises; but King James the Second, by having withdrawn Himself, after having endeavoured to subvert the Constitution of the Government, by breaking the original Contract between King and People, and having violated the fundamental Laws, may be more properly said to have deserted, than abdicated the Government.

"The Lords do insist upon their Second Amendment, to leave out these Words ["and that the Throne is thereby vacant;"] for the Reasons following:

"1. Although the Lords have declared that the King has deserted the Government, and thereupon they have made Application to the Prince of Orange, to take upon him the Administration of the Government, and thereby to provide for the Peace and Safety of the Kingdom; yet there can be no other Inference drawn from thence, but only that the Exercise of the Government by King James the Second was ceased; so as that the Lords were and are willing to secure the Nation against the Return of the said King into this Kingdom; but not that there was either such an Abdication by Him, or such a Vacancy in the Throne, as that the Crown was thereby become elective; to which they cannot agree.

"1. Because, by the Constitution of the Government, the Monarchy is Hereditary, and not Elective.

"2. Because no Act of the King alone can bar or destroy the Right of His Heirs to the Crown; and therefore (in Answer to the Third Reason alledged by the House of Commons) if the Throne be vacant of King James the Second, Allegiance is due to such Person as the Right of Succession does belong to."

To which Reasons the House agreed.

Message to H. C. for the Conference.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Miles Cooke and Mr. Methwin:

To desire a present Conference, in the Painted Chamber, upon the Subject-matter of the last Conference.

The former Managers were appointed to manage this Conference.

The Messengers return with this Answer:

Answer.

That the Commons will give a present Conference, as is desired.

Then, the Commons being come, the House was adjourned during Pleasure; and the Managers went to the Conference.

Which being ended, the House was resumed.

Report of the Conference.

The Earl of Nottingham reported, "That the Managers had delivered the Reasons at the Conference with the House of Commons.

Secret Committee concerning the E. of Essex's Death.

Lords Committees appointed by the House to be a Close Committee, to examine and take Informations concerning the Death of the late Earl of Essex; and have Power to send for and examine what Persons they please, and such Affidavits as have been already made in this Business, as also for what other Papers they please, in order to give their Lordships further Light therein; whose Lordships are to make Report thereof to the House:

Comes Bedford.
Comes Devonsh.
Viscount Mordaunt.
Ds. Delamer.

Whose Lordships are to meet when, and where, and as often as, they please.

Adjourn.

Marq. de Hallifax, Orator Procerum pro Tempore, declaravit præsen. Convent. continuandum esse usque in diem Mercurii, (videlicet,) 6um diem Februarii, 1688/9, hora nona Aurora, Dominis sic decernentibus.