House of Lords Journal Volume 5: 23 January 1643

Pages 568-569

Journal of the House of Lords: Volume 5, 1642-1643. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1767-1830.

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Page 568
Page 569

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DIE Lunæ, videlicet, 23 die Januarii.


Earl (fn. 1) of Manchester, Speaker.

D. of Espernoone's Horses to be restored.

Upon Information to this House, "That the Duke Espernoone having lent Two Coach Horses to one Mr. Pasquill, which are taken away:" It is Ordered, That if the said Duke Espernoone will own the Horses, they shall be restored.

Order to prevent the Abuse of taking Horses.

Upon Complaint made to this House of the great Abuse of taking away of Horses, to the great Damage of divers Persons, which make Complaint of the same; and this House taking the same into Consideration, and that the Orders of this House have been disobeyed: This House Ordered, To have a Conference with the House of Commons, and to acquaint them with the Abuse of the Order of Parliament, in giving Power to Deputies; and that divers Gentlemen of Kent, that have contributed to the Parliament, have had their Horses seized; and desired that the Order lately sent to them may be agreed on, and the Order of the 15th of November last may be revoked; and that it may be Declared, That if any do presume to seize Horses hereafter, contrary to that Order, that they shall be proceeded against as Felons.

L. Mountague to transport Horses to France.

Ordered, That the Lord Viscount Mountague shall have his Order renewed, for transporting his Horses into France, as was formerly allowed him.

Message to the H. C. for a Conference about seizing Horses.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Rob't Rich and Mr. Page:

To desire a present Conference, in the Painted Chamber, touching the seizing of Horses.

The Answer returned was:


That the House of Commons will give a present Conference, as is desired.

Petition of the French Church for Election of a Minister.

A Petition was read, directed, "To the Right Honourable the Lords assembled in the Upper House of Parliament.

"The humble Petition of the Members of the French Congregation;


"That your Petitioners have, a Month since, exhibited their humble Petition to the Honourable House of Commons, for the free Election of a Minister properly belonging to the Members your Petitioners, according to the usual Custom of the French; yet the Elder unjustly claimeth the same Election, as a Due and Power in himself.

"May it therefore please your Lordships to refer the Examination of the Business to the Honourable the House of Commons."

This House conceived this Petition to be of a dangerous Consequence, this House having heard the Parties on both Sides, and the Matter having been reported and settled by Order of this House.

The Party that delivered in this Petition was called in, one Marcescall, a Frenchman; and the Speaker asked him, whether he owns the said Petition. He said, "He, as One, was consenting to it, and many others."

Marescall committed for delivering it.

The House taking this into Consideration, and conceiving this Act of this Person to be a great Offence, in regard of the Nature of the ill Precedent of the said Petition, and that the same was much against the Honour and Dignity of this House; Ordered, That the said Marescall shall be committed to the Prison of The Fleete, there to remain until the Pleasure of this House be further known.

Charters of the French and Dutch Churches to be brought in.

The Order made concerning the Congregation of the French and Dutch Church was read; and, because they desired some Particulars may be expressed in the said Order which was conceived to be in their Charters, it is Ordered, That the Charters shall be brought in To-morrow Morning, and then this House will take the same into further Consideration.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

Report of a Conference about the Propositions to the King.

Next, the Speaker reported the Conference on Saturday last, concerning the Propositions.

1. He read the Amendments and Alterations, with the Resolutions and Answer of the House of Commons thereupon.

2. A Vote, "That there shall be a fixed (fn. 2) Day desired of His Majesty, to give a positive Answer to the Propositions, within Ten Days after the Delivery of them unto His Majesty."

3. They presented to their Lordships the Title of the Bill concerning Bishops, which they desire may be added to the Propositions.

Bill to abolish Episcopacy, brought from the H. C.

A Message was brought up from the House of Commons, by Sir Rob't Harley, Knight of the Bath; who brought up a Bill, which hath passed the House of Commons, and wherein they desire their Lordships Concurrence.

The Title of the said Bill was,

"An Act for the utter Abolishing and Taking away of all Archbishops, Bishops, their Chancellors and Commissaries, Deans, Sub-Deans, Deans and Chapters, Archdeacons, Canons, and Prebendaries, and all Chaunters, Chancellors, Treasurers, Sub-Treasurers, Succentors, and Sacrists, and all Vicars Choral, and Choristers, old Vicars, and new Vicars, of any Cathedral or Collegiate Church, and of all other their Under-officers, out of the Church of England."

Next, this House took the Propositions into Consideration, as they were now reported from the House of Commons, with the Alterations.

To be further debated this Afternoon.

Message from the H. C. with an Ordinance for Ministers at the Fast to ask Forgiveness for the National Sins.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Rouse:

To desire their Lordships Concurrence in an Ordinance appointing the Ministers at the Fast to ask Pardon of God for the National Sins of this Kingdom.

Ordered, To be referred to the Earls of Warwicke and Bollingbrooke, and the Lord Viscount Say & Seale, and the Lord Wharton, Brooke, Grey, Feilding, and Bruce, to mend some Expressions of the Words in it, and report the same to the House.

Their Lordships, or any Three, to meet this Afternoon, at Three of the Clock.

The Answer returned was:


That this House (fn. 3) will return an Answer, by Messengers of their own.

Message from the H. C. with an Ordinance for a Subscription in London, for Warwick and Stafford.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Bosevile:

To desire Concurrence in an Ordinance for some Subscriptions of some Merchants in London, for the County of Warwicke and Stafford; and, because this House conceived that this might be an ill Precedent, and will be prejudicial to the Subscriptions in London, which are for the Maintenance of the Army, it is Ordered, That the List of these Subscriptions shall be brought in to the Committees in London, for the raising of Monies for the Army; and that the Monies shall be paid into Guildhall; and, upon Certificate thereof, the said Committees are to acquaint the Committees for the Safety of the Kingdom therewith, and receive their Directions therein.


House adjourned (fn. 4) till 3a post meridiem.

Post meridiem.


Earl of Manchester, Speaker.

King's Servants; a Pass.

Ordered, The Scullery-man, and One other Servant of the King's, shall have a Pass, to go to Oxford.

Propositions about a General Pardon.

Next, these Lords following were appointed to be Committees, to withdraw presently, and consider of the Thirteenth Proposition concerning the General Pardon; and to report the same to the House:

Comes Holland.
Comes Northumb.
Comes Pembrooke.
Comes Sarum.
Comes Bedford.
Comes Warwicke.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
Ds. Howard.
Ds. Grey.
Ds. Wharton.

The House was resumed.

And it was reported, "That the Committee are (fn. 5) of Opinion, to let the House of Commons know, that their Lordships, upon Second Thoughts, offer it to their Considerations, whether it were not best to name such Persons as they will proceed against before the Tenth of January, One Thousand Six Hundred Forty-three; else all Men will be liable to be questioned."

Bill to abolish Episcopacy.

Hodie 1a vice lecta est Billa, An Act for the taking away of Archbishops, Bishops, Deans and Chapters, &c.


House adjourned till 10a cras.


  • 1. Bis in Originali.
  • 2. Bis in Originali.
  • 3. Deest in Originali.
  • 4. Origin. during till.
  • 5. Deest in Originali.