House of Commons Journal Volume 5: 16 December 1646

Pages 14-16

Journal of the House of Commons: Volume 5, 1646-1648. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1802.

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Die Mercurii, 16 Decembris, 1646.


Countess of Essex.

AN Ordinance for disposing an Arrear of Four thousand Five hundred Fifty Pounds, of a Jointure of One thousand Three hundred Pounds per Annum, settled upon the Countess of Essex, by the Earl of Essex, deceased, sequestered from the Countess of Essex, for her Delinquency, to the Parliament, was this Day read the First and Second time.

The humble Petition of Elizabeth Countess of Essex was likewise this Day read.

The Ordinance, upon the Question, passed: And the Lords Concurrence is ordered to be desired herein.

Leave of Absence.

Resolved, &c. That Sir Roger Townsend and Horace Townsend his Brother, shall have Leave to travel for Three Years, with his Followers and Company, in Number Eight, with such Necessaries as may lawfully be transported.

Ordered, That Mr. Gell shall have Leave to go into the Country: And that his Absence be no Prejudice to the Cause now depending.

Grant for Scotch Army.

Mr. Crew carried to the Lords, for their Concurrence, the Articles agreed on, concerning the conveying, paying, telling, and receiving the First Two hundred thousand Pounds, to our Brethren of Scotland.

Countess of Essex.

Mr. Solicitor carried to the Lords, for their Concurrence, an Ordinance concerning an Arrear of Four thousand Five hundred Fifty Pounds, of the Jointure settled upon the Countess of Essex, by the late Earl of Essex, sequestered from her, upon her Delinquency to the Parliament.

Committee of Priviloges.

Mr. Sayer, Mr. Gott, Sir Tho. Wroth, Mr. Palmer, Sir John Liegh, Colonel Liegh, Colonel Harvey, Mr. Tolson, Mr. Fenwick, Mr. Clive, Mr. Francis Pierpoint, Colonel Hunt, Mr. Hallowes, Mr. Walter Long, Mr. Henry Smith, Mr. Vachell, Mr. Drake, Mr. Nicholl, Mr. Robinson, Mr. Lisle, Mr. Grimston, Sir Richard Skevington, Colonel Birch, Mr. Swynfen, Sir John Burgoyn, Mr. Dove, Mr. James Ashe, Colonel Ashton, Sir Samuell Luke, Sir John Holland, Mr. Ascough, Colonel Charles Fleetwood, Sir Thomas Barnardiston, Mr. Edward Stephens, Major Harrison, Mr. Peck, Major Salwey, Mr. John Nelthorpe, Sir Wm. Spring, Mr. Scawen, Mr. Weaver, Sir Robert Nedeham, Sir Gregory Norton, Sir John D' Anvers, Sir Symonds D' Ewes, Mr. Bulkley, Mr. Grove, Sir Francis Drake, Sir Sam. Roll, Sir Wm. Lister, Colonel Lloyd, Mr. Bingham, Colonel Wauton, Mr. Hobby, Mr. Peter Temple, Mr. Wheeler, Colonel Harley, Mr. Lislebone Longe, Mr. Whitehead, Sir Robert Bindloes, Mr. Strode, Sir Henry Cholmley, Mr. Ravenscroft, Mr. Challener, Mr. James Nelthorp, Colonel Norton, Colonel White, Colonel Ireton, Mr. Thorpe, Mr. Cawleye, Mr. Noble, Mr. Thistlethwait, Mr. Brookes:

Ordered, That these Members before going be added to the Committee of Privileges.

Resolved, &c. That the Committee of Privileges shall make their Reports every Monday: And that the Mondays in every Week be set apart constantly for that Purpose.

Resolved, &c. That the Committee for Elections do sit constantly Three times every Week: And the Members that are of that Committee are enjoined to attend diligently that Service.

Bishops Lands.

An Additional Ordinance for the Alteration and Explanation of the Oath formerly appointed to be taken by the Surveyors of Bishops Lands; and for the better Enabling of the Trustees for Bishops Lands, named in the former Ordinances, to discharge the Trust in them reposed; was this Day read the Second time.

And the Question being put, For Committing of it;

And passing with the Negative;

The Ordinance, upon the Question, passed: And is ordered to be sent to the Lords for their Concurrence.

Colonel Harvey carried it to the Lords for their Concurrence.

He likewise carried to the Lords, for their Concurrence, an Order concerning the Putting out of the Name of Leicestershire out of the Ordinance, concerning the Lady Blaney having Allowance out of the Lord Brudnell's Estate.

Answers from Lords.

Mr. Crew brings Answer, That the Lords do agree to the Articles carried by him to them for their Concurrence.

Mr. Solicitor brings Answer, That the Lords will send Answer to the Ordinance carried to the Lords by him, by Messengers of their own.

Great Seal, &c.

Resolved, &c. That the Custody of the Great Seal of England shall continue in the Hands it now remains, for Twenty Days after the Expiration of the Time it is now to continue; and likewise the Commission to the Judges, &c. for Hearing of Causes.

Mr. Samuell Browne went to the Lords, to desire their Concurrence in this Vote.

Excise, &c.

Resolved, &c. That this House doth declare, That the Clause contained in the Ordinance for Continuation of the Excise or new Impost until the Twenty-ninth of September 1648, concerning the Entry of Assignments of Debts charged upon the Receipts of the Excise, with the Commissioners of Excise, and the Comptroller, shall not be prejudicial to any Person or Persons, who have lent or advanced any Monies, or have any Monies due unto them, by virtue of the several Ordinances for appointing the Sale of the Bishops Lands; and have not entered their said Monies lent, or so due, with the said Commissioners: And the Commissioners of Excise, and the Comptroller, are hereby authorized and required to receive, and allow of the Entries of the respective Advancers of Monies upon the Credit of the said Ordinances for the Sale of the Bishops Lands; notwithstanding the Time appointed by the said Clause, in the said Ordinance for Continuation of the Excise, be elapsed.

Bishops Lands.

Mr. Holles reports the Desires of the Contractors, That whereas they are bound, by their Oaths, from selling Lands in Possession under Ten Years Purchase of the full Value which the Lands were worth in the Year 1641; that in regard the Value cannot possibly come within their Cognizance, that it may be explained, that they shall not sell under Ten Years Purchase of the full Values, according to such Particulars as shall be made forth unto them, under the Hand of the Register; and that the last Clause, videlicet, The same Rule to be observed proportionably in the Sale of Reversions expectant upon Estates for Lives or Years, may be left out of their Oath; or a Rule prescribed; because an Estate for Three Lives, or Thirty-one Years and upwards, comes not with in Ten Years Purchase: That the Register's Deputy may be sworn to be faithful in his Place: And that they may have Liberty to chuse their own Clerk; and have a reasonable Allowance for him; because divers Warrants and Returns are to be made by them to the Register: And that incident Charges of Paper, Pens, Ink, Books, Firing, and other Accommodations, may be allowed them. And

It is thereupon Ordered, That these several Desires be referred to the Consideration of the Members of this House that are of the Committee of Lords and Commons, in the Ordinance for Allowance of the Trustees Warrants, upon any Question made of the Payment of them, by the Treasurers: Who are to consider of their Desires; and to consider of an Oath for the Register's Deputy; and report their Opinions thereupon with all convenient Speed: And Mr. Samuell Browne and Mr. Robert Reynolds, are added to this Committee, as to this Business.

Resolved, &c. That this House doth agree to allow to the Contractors Two-pence in the Pound for all the Lands that shall be contracted for by them, and sold.

Resolved, &c. That, in the Ordinance for appointing the Sale of the Bishops Lands, in the Clause concerning the Payment, and dividing the Monies, arising by the Sale thereof, to the Lenders, after these Words, "if the Sum by him lent," and before the Word "shall," these Words, videlicet, "or otherwise due by this Ordinance," be added: And likewise, that, in the Instructions for the Contractors, in the last Instruction, after these Words, "their Monies so lent," and before the Word "shall," these Words, "or otherwise due by this Ordinance," shall be added.

The Lords Concurrence to be desired herein.

Answers from Lords.

Mr. Samuell Browne brings Answer, That the Lords do agree, That the Seal be continued in the Custody of the Speakers of both Houses, for Twenty Days after the Expiration of the Time they were made Commissioners: And likewise for the continuing the Commission for Hearing of Causes as is desired.

Colonel Harvey brings Answer, That the Lords will send Answer to the Ordinance concerning the Oath to be given to the Surveyors, and to the Amendment of the Ordinance for the Lady Blaney, by Messengers of their own.

Privilege- Reflections on a Member.

The House being informed, That Sir David Watkins was at the Door;

He was called in: And being demanded, What Words were spoken by him, upon the Exchange, concerning Sir John Evelyn;

Sir David Watkins saith, That, upon Wednesday, being this Day Sevennight, he told Mr. Maurice Thompson, That he heard, that Sir John Evelyn, of Wiltes, should say, either in the House of Commons, or some where else, "That he thought it was fit to speak to Mr. Speaker, That it was time to send for the Army, to curb the Pride and Insolency of the mechanick Citizens."

Privilege Reflections on a Member.

Being asked, Of whom he heard this; Sir David Watkins answered, That Mr. Rycrofte, a Merchant, told it him, On Yesterday Sevennight, between One and Two of the Clock, upon the Exchange, as he was going from his own House to Goldsmiths Hall: That he was much grieved, that any Man should have so little of a Man in him, to speak such Words of the City of London, that had spent so much Treasure and Blood in this Cause: That Mr. Pennoyer came to him, on the Exchange, on Saturday last, and charged him with what he had spoken; and that he then affirmed to Mr. Pennoyer the same he had spoken to Mr. Maurice Thompson; and told Mr. Pennoyer That he heard it on the Exchange: That Mr. Pennoyer drew him to the Place where Mr. Forth stood: That Mr. Forth is a Stranger to him; that he knows him only as he hath seen him to pay his Twentieth Part, and his Assessment, to the Scotts, at Goldsmiths Hall; and that he was formerly taken for a Malignant.

The House being informed, That Mr. Rycrofte was at the Door;

He was called in: And, being asked, What he had heard concerning the Bringing-up of the Army; Mr. Rycrofte faith, That he was told, That a Member of this House should speak to some Members of this House, sitting by him in this House, "That this way of Petitioning, and making Tumults in the City, would not be quelled, until the Army was brought up:" That one Mr. Drake, of Cheapside, told him, That Mr. Bearde, Mr. Browne, Mr. Brindley, and Colonel Barton, heard it of a Member of this House.

The House commanded him to withdraw.

Resolved, &c. That Mr. Rycrofte shall be asked, Who was the Member, that told those Gentlemen in London the Words informed to be spoken by a Member of this House.

Resolved, &c. That Mr. Rycrofte be injoined to tell the House, What Member spake the Words to other Members; and the Names of the Members to whom he spake, that sat by him; and who was the Member, that told the Gentlemen in London that told him.

Mr. Rycrofte, being called in again; and injoined to name the Member; faith, That Mr. Drake this Morning told him, That he could make good Proof of what he had told him; and that Mr. Gott did tell him so.

He faith, He doth not positively know, What Member it was that spake it; or to whom he spake it: That he named no Member to Sir David Watkins; but a Gentleman who was with Sir David Watkins named a Member of this House; and asked, If it were not Sir John Evelyn: That he knows not the Gentleman that was with Sir David Watkins; and that Sir David Watkins answered nothing, but went away.

Mr. Rycrofte being withdrawn;

Mr. Gott gave an Answer to Mr. Rycrofte's Information; and, by Mr. Gott's own Consent, his Answer to Mr. Rycrofte's Information is entered: The which Answer was in hæc verba; viz. That he doth deny, that ever he heard Sir John Evelyn, or any other Member of the House of Commons, speak those Words, or any Words to that Effect; or that ever he spake any such Words, or Words to that Effect, to Mr. Drake, or any other.

Mr. Rycrofte, being called in again; and having heard this Information read to him; affirmed the same: And faith further, That Mr. William Drake told him so; and that he lives in Cheapside: That himself never heard Mr. Browne, Mr. Bearde, or Colonel Barton, say so: But Mr. Drake, who told it him, said, He was there himself present, when Mr. Browne, Mr. Beard, Colonel Barton, and Mr. Gott, were together; and that he heard it from Mr. Gott himself.

That he heard not, Which Sir John Evelyn it was, that was said to speak those Words.

Sir David Watkins being called in again, heard his Information read; and agreed to it: And further faith, That Mr. Rycrofte named Sir John Evelyn of Wilts, to him first; and that Mr. Hartlib was present, and stood by, and heard him: That Mr. Hartlib named nobody: And that there was another present with Mr. Rycrofte; Who it was, he knows not.

And then withdrew.

Mr. Pennoyer was called in; and heard his Information read unto him; and did agree it to be according as he delivered it.

Sir David Watkins, Mr. Pennoyer, and Mr. Rycrofte, were all called in together: And, in the Presence one of another in the House, Mr. Pennoyer says, That he came to Sir David Watkins, and told him, What a grievous Thing it was to see such Divisions; and that these Divisions between the Parliament and City would be the Ruin of this Kingdom; and that it was a devilish Part of any to work these Divisions: That then Sir David Watkins told him, That Sir John Evelyn should speak those Words he formerly informed: And that Sir David Watkins began this Discourse concerning Sir John Evelyn to him; and that he spake nothing of it first to him; and that he never to his Knowledge, heard of those Words, concerning Sir John Evelyn, before; nor of any thing concerning the Bringingup of the Army.

Sir David Watkins speaks it positively, That Mr. Pennoyer charged the Speaking of the Words upon him, before he spake any thing to Mr. Pennoyer, concerning Sir John Evelyn.

Sir David Watkins speaks it positively, That Mr. Rycrofte told him, That Sir John Evelyn should speak those Words informed by him: And that Mr. Hartelyb was then by, at his Speaking thereof.

Mr. Rycrofte speaks it positively, That he never informed Sir David Watkins any such thing, concerning Sir John Evelyn; or ever named Sir John Evelyn unto him; but that he informed him the Words set down in his Examination: And that a Gentleman that was by, asked, if it were not Sir John Evelyn: That he never knew Sir John Evelyn; nor ever heard any Word of Sir John Evelyn, of Wiltes.

Ordered, &c. That Mr. Wm. Drake be summoned to attend the House To-morrow Morning.

Scotch Affairs.

Ordered, &c. That, To-morrow Morning, the first Business, the House do consider of the Business of Hostages; and proceed in the Residue of the Paper last given in from the Commissioners of Scotland.